What on earth are you talking about?

You are forgetting that after the Rupture, you have to again build up points to use your next Slice and Dice. Letting Slice and Dice drop would be violating one of the 7 commandments of rogue DPS. If you don't have T4 2pc, 2s/5r will allow Slice to fall off before you can refresh it. 3s/5r is doable and is used by quite a large number of rogues, but 4s/5r is more reliable if you are worried about Slice falling off in the absence of procs.

You are also forgetting that Combat Potency procs shorten the amount of time needed to generate the CP for your next finisher. On average, 1s/5r is the best usable cycle with T4 2pc, and 3s/5r or 4s/5r are best without it (until late T6, at which point you may choose to use 5s/5r).

What? No, it isn't. It might be close, but it isn't better for a combat rogue in any know situation or combination of gear. Please do spread misinformation like this.

I am sure someone else will address this as well, but it comes down to the value of finishers, Ruthlessness and Relentless Strikes. Doing a 5 point finisher means your finisher is free because you will always get 25 energy, and you have a 60% chance to get a combo point, this means you get in more Sinister Strikes, which is generally going to be more DPS. Also in your example what you have to factor in is what happens if one of your SS's is dodged, then you lose S&D uptime. A 4 point finisher still gives you an 80% chance to get 25 energy, so an average of 20 energy (15 for 3, 10 for 2, 5 for 1).

Letting S&D drop isn't a good option, and having planned downtime is even worse. You have to remember that Rupture is only a small % of your DPS, and the spreadsheets are designed to model the relative value of increased Rupture uptime versus additional Sinister Strikes etc.

Not really, because you forget to factor it 25 energy from Relentless Strikes, an 80% chance you will get atleast 1 additional Combo Point from Ruthlessness, and the fact that you will hit approximately 1 time per second with your off hand, so in 18 seconds you will regen 45-60 energy (on average) from Combat Potency. 1s/5r is only viable with Combat Specs for this reason.

The part about that statement being completely and utterly wrong. No spreadsheet or current modeling supports that, so I think we are at a bit of a loss regarding where you are coming from.

According to the DPS Spreadsheet it is in fact better using my gear and a Combat Swords build

--edit--

In fact I've just downloaded the version using the full T6 gear and GoA/IP comes out on top for that also, so I'd appreciate it if you don't assume that I'm basing this on nothing, thank you very much.

That said, the Gear Spreadsheet puts WF totem at around 35dps* higher than the GoA/IP combo so it could just be a glitch in the DPS sheet.


*It's over 100dps higher if you leave both WF/Improved WF turned on, as it was when I downloaded the sheet, and change to Goa/Improved GoA

Frankly I don't appreciate being told I'm an idiot by people who are too lazy to go and look for themselves. The DPS sheet may well be wrong but buffed dps (unless 1700+dps is suddenly possible unbuffed and has jumped into the buffed dps box) is increased by dropping WF totem.

Go check for yourselves.

A combat sword build (20/41) with 4 points spent in improved and / or vile poisons + considering improved grace air totem leads to this situation in the RogueDPS_2_4_0_3 spreadsheet. There are too many parameters (gear, buff, boss armor...) to give a number, but the increase for my personnal case is about 0.6% buffed.

Please correct me if I am wrong.

- link to Armory: The World of Warcraft Armory

Turn on one or the other, not both. (IE, use WF or Improved WF, but not both.) The sheet models them as two separate effects, so you are in effect double-dipping those abilities if you have them both turned on. This may help explain your oddball results...

Although, he's right... oddly enough, IP + GoA comes out as 0.19% ahead of WF in the current version of the DPS spreadsheet using default gear and buffs. Should be even higher for a Mutilate spec. Strange...

EDIT: I'm even showing this for my early T5 gear using the current version of the DPS sheet. Gear sheet has it sitting at ~30 DPS back. Something is funky with the DPS sheet here... either that or we need to re-evaluate all our assumptions.

I spent a few minutes looking at this discrepancy, and there are two fundamental modeling differences between the two sheets. I believe the Gear sheet has the correct behavior (obviously), but perhaps it's worth doing some external testing to verify.

1) The Gear sheet assumes that WF attacks can proc stuff - Mongoose/Executioner, Dragonspine Trophy, and the like. Since you are now getting 20% more MH attacks, the proc rate on these goes up and increases your damage slightly.

And, the larger effect:

2) The Gear sheet treats WF as a buff with a duration, and thus increases the AP of a suitable proportion of your other attacks to encompass this fact.

Now, I haven't actually tested either of these lately, so that might be worth doing; but my impression is that this is how it works. Regardless: between these the value of WF is increased by about 30 DPS in the Gear sheet relative to the DPS sheet, which is why one shows IP/GoA as comparable and one does not.

I am fairly new to playing a Rogue but I have a Druid and a Priest that I've had for years and I read these forums quite often. I'm working on an addon for my rogue to make life easier and I have a few questions for you guys. The addon is using the mob's estimated armor from the TargetArmor addon, the mob's debuffs from blizz's api, and the mob's health from the MobHealth addon to calculate Eviserate vs. Envenom damage and display which ability to use. I'm also trying to figure out how to get info from EnhTooltip to override that decision with Rupture if the mob is not immune.

My question is how much armor does a mob need to have to make Envenom more effective than Eviserate? Also, does Envenom gain the full benifet of misery and storm strike?

My personal spreadsheet does account for 1), but does not account for 2), and still puts Windfury 33 DPS ahead of GoA+IP for my gear/buff setup (early T6+full raid buffs).

I like the DPS spreadsheet, but the idea of it suggesting that GoA is superior in any fashion to Windfury leaves me really scratching my head.