Hello! I've been enjoying these posts for some time and am starting to work on the theorycrafting of my game play. Sadly the spreadsheet doesn't work in Mac Office 2008 (trust me they've heard from me about it), so I am doing things on my own and reading as much as I can.

I'm still in some blue gear, but just switched from sword/sword to fist/sword (16/45) with the new Vanir's right. I have yet to test it but I kept good numbers from my runs this week, so I can post some raw data.

My issues have been my rotation, especially when in ZA where I am moving a lot to avoid flames, etc. Another issue I have, which I fully agree with some here, is low stamina. I am sure some of this will change dramatically once I am in better gear, not just from a stam viewpoint but also armor. I also find I need FR, etc a lot as I seem to take most of my damage from AOE spells.

I'd be interested in what the number crunchers find out about a fist/sword build for those of us who don't arena but mainly raid. I'd like to get above 800dps on a raid on a consistent basis.

2s/5r seems to work fine, but I end up with extra cp or energy, so I have not determined when I should toss an evisc in to keep my s&d up without wasting cp.

I got your Message.

I see what you guys are saying, I didn't realize the .5s to max1s I don't have it up is so detrimental.

With my current gear, what rotation would you guys suggest?

Lastly, with a 4s 5r rotation, wouldnt you have some problems with your energy pool capping out? Again I haven't used a rotation like that in a while so sorry if these seem like dumb questions.

At around ~60 energy, if SnD is still running you just refresh it early. Refresh SnD when of the following 2 conditions is met:
1 - Current SnD has ~0.5 to 1 second left
2 - You have ~60 energy pooled (this is to avoid capping out with energy ticks + potency procs)

This is true of basically any cycle. Tighter cycles tend to hit condition 1 more often. Cycles with more slack tend to hit condition 2 more often.

Side note: Is there a way to save sent messages? I can't seem to find any such option anywhere and have 0 messages in my Sent folder.

This is what I figured. So I assume that a 4s/5r would require you cutting your SnD a pretty decent amount no?

If that;s the case then I would also assume that you could move to s 3s/5r rotation.

3s/5r is rough to manage, even, without the t4 2/5. The spreadsheet suggests 3.7s/5r to me, so I bump that up to 4s/5r for safety's sake. You could probably run 3s/5r, though, if you watched your SnD closely and popped Thistle tea on bad proc runs.

Which I already do.

I think I will try this out on the remainder of our BT run on Sunday.

The thing about cutting into SND time is a lot of people assume it's bad to overwrite SND early, but once you consider what is actually happening, you'll realize it's really not a big deal. You still have 100% SND uptime, and by refreshing it sooner you get to your next Rupture sooner. Spending energy on another SS only delays your next Rupture without increasing SND uptime (which should be 100% either way). So what do you lose by cutting into SND time?

It comes down to this: The benefit of cutting into SND is that your Rupture uptime will be greater. On the other hand, the benefit of not cutting is that your SND will cost less energy on average. As it turns out, these effects are surprisingly close to equal (for example, the difference between 3s/5r and 5s/5r for the default gear set in Aldriana's sheet is only about 5 DPS).

There's just no need to try to overly tighten your cycle. At best you gain 5-10 DPS (although 2pc T4 makes 1s/5r a little more beneficial than this, probably closer to 20 DPS), but that's only in the ideal case. Since raiding isn't ideal, your SND is going to drop, and you're probably just hurting yourself more than helping.

As the EA rogue, what's the best way to start the fight? You'd want to get it up as soon as possible, I imagine. 1s / AR / 5s / 5a? That almost seems a bit too long still. Ideas?

By EA I assume you mean Expose Armour (Canadian, deal with the U). Anyway, I would start off just like you always would, just instead of using a 5cp Rupture, use an Expose Armour.

I find the best way - if your tank can handle it - is 2s->AR->5a->5s->vanish->normal cycles.

If your tank isn't up to the task, I find that the same pattern, without the AR but using Shiv instead of Sinister Strike works fairly well.

Sry wrong thread.

I would take a point out of Imp Gouge or Lightning Reflexes and put that in Imp Sprint, and I'd put the 2 points in Murder instead of Imp Eviscerate but otherwise it looks like a pretty standard tri-spec hemo build.

Depending where you are in progression this should be pretty competitive with Combat in the earlier content but will start to fall behind once you get into Tier 5 content (this is counting the hemo charges towards your damage, your personal dps will be lower than combat regardless).

That build is close to what is typically referred to as tri-spec hemo. It's a fine utility build for t4/low end t5, after which, just speccing combat will out dps the utility offered by hemo.

It works like a charm in NeoOffice (www.neooffice.org)

By cutting into SND you start of next SND with less energy. This means you will have a harder time getting a 5 point rupture so you can start of another 2-3 point SND. I think the ideal situation is to always have 60+ energy at the end of SND (when you start another cycle). Hitting another SS/Hemo even if you had the time complicates this because you will have less energy to start off with; which means rupture again will start later in the cycle resulting SND to drop. Only if energy caps out you will have to hit another SS/Hemo. This is a no problem for 4-5 point SND cycle tho, ultra-safe-cycle .
Personally I think I gamble a little too much with ruthlessness, weaving SND with less combo points

So I'm a little dismayed at my performance in SSC last night; Tidewalker is the fight that sort of stands out. (I did generally terrible on trash but I put most of the blame there on the immense framerate lag I've been suffering since 2.4; not much I can do about that except turn my spell effects down and get a new computer!) Basically, the other rogue and I have exceptionally similar gear; the only major difference was that she was using a Spiteblade and I had a Season 2. And she ended up out-DPSing me by over 150.

Reasons that helped her pull ahead:
-I got Graved once; she didn't get Graved at all. Obviously the big one, especially if I had a Rupture ticking, which I believe would cause WWS to track me at something like 100 DPS for 10-12 seconds as opposed to just lowering my in-combat time.
-I let S&D drop 13 times; she only let it drop 9. I'm reasonably certain that apart from the Grave it was only for a second or two each time, but I could be wrong.
-She had 10 more Windfury procs, 5 more Mongoose procs, and 14 more Potency procs. Gogo RNG I suppose?
-She popped 3 Haste pots to my 1. The other big kicker.

Reasons I could have still made up the difference:
-2 Dren Rushes to her 1. Probably not a huge difference but worth noting.
-Season 2 vs. Spiteblade. Seriously WTF.

Anyway, I'm just wondering if anyone can spot something that I missed, maybe slap me over the head with a large trout. I've been yelled at not to be too hard on myself performance-wise, but as the raid leader I sort of have to be because who else is going to? My goal for next week is to never let S&D drop, which is paradoxically difficult with a 1/5 rotation. Apart from that I guess just pray for less Graves, and maybe pop a few more Haste pots.

Any thoughts?

Hello! I'm an avid reader of this forum and enjoy much of the discussion but I could do with a little advice from you guys. My DPS has been suffering a little lately and I cant seem to figure out why!?

I would be greatful if someone could give me a few tips on spec/gear and dps cycles or just figure out where im going wrong. I used to on average to about 830 DPS but lately this seems to have dropped below 700 and i cant figure out wthether this is because of a respec from classic combat swords or the new MH i am now using? Could someone also let me know what an average DPS for someone with my kit is so I know what to aim for?

I use a 3s/5r cycle generally as i can manage to sustain this.

Here's my armory link: The World of Warcraft Armory

Here's a recent WWS report: Wow Web Stats (I know its only kara but i havent really done any 25mans in this spec to show you)

Some kits available to me for swap in/out (other than what my armory shows):

[Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery]
[Spiteblade]

[Netherblade Facemask]
[Netherblade Breeches]
[Bladed Shoulderpads of the Merciless]
[Malefic Mask of the Shadows]
[Trickster's Stickyfingers]

[Ring of a Thousand Marks]

Thanks in advance!

First, your weapons are fine, although you can consider going fist spec, with both the MH and OH fists.

I would recommend getting the Gear Speadsheet linked in the Original Post and putting your gear in and see what DPS you should be doing.

Netherblade Facemask will give you a DPS increase, make sure you get the meta gem requirements right.
The Ring of a Thousand Marks should be better than the VE Rep Ring.

But use the spreadsheet to check your upgrades and it will also give you the prime rotation and what DPS you would be doing.

I would also stop using Evenom. You have two Shamans but no Windfury, put one Shaman in your group and use WF Totem. DP on OH, WF for MH.

Your gloves should have +15 agi enchant on them.

It is also good to remember, that meele DPS can vary widely due to the fights, for Kara I personally beleive Nightbane to be the best indicator of your DPS.

Edit: I am looking to get a WWS of mine critiqued, would Tidewalker fight be best for that? I have a Leo and FLK WWS, would those be any useful?

Download open office and get over yourself mac-user

First, beeing one of our raidleaders myself I know that you can easily be distracted from optimal performance and micromanaging energy and cycles. I often experienced that once you loose your cycle it's hard to get back on it. Keeping SnD up at all times is way more important than any other finishers... 10.7k difference are due to blade furry, that's 27 dps.

Your argument saying that your MH is plain better isn't supported by the stats.In fact her average swing did more damage than yours. I'd put that down to a higher crit percentage with her normal swings (33 % compared to your 28 %)... I assume her crit raiting is higher than yours. As you seem to raid with an Moonkin her higher crit might result in better dps output than your focus on getting close to the hit cap. But all these things are assumptions as your armory pages do not seem to represent your gear on that night. Obviously Ceilly got the Talon out of that fight.

edit: take a look at "breakdowns". She hat 10% more swings and the average hit was 564 to 547 in her favour. That should explain the difference.

Thanks for the suggestion! Yeah ive been using the dps spreadsheet for some time and it recommends my current gear as being optimal with what I have available. It also says that I should be doing 1036 DPS buffed on a 1s/5r cycle without any raid buffs but boss debuffs left as standard. This is either wildly inaccurate or i am doing something seriously wrong as ive never got anywhere near that sort of number apart from maybe a nuke aran fight.

Generally i spam SS whenever energy allows me to and then rupture at 5 CP, is this the way most people do it or is it best to wait until your energy is full after the first SnD is up then SS multiple times?

Cheers

Yeah, during that fight, she was using a Spiteblade, I was using a Season 2 mainhand; I can only suspect that she just has higher AP than I do due to gem choices. At one point my hit was pretty dismal (around 240) so I had to make up the difference with gems; I should probably regem but I'm not yet sure if I'm going to try Mutilate when I get a Fang of Vashj. But eh, I'll just do some dailies and gem for what I've got.

AADR, I'll try sticking with 2/5 tonight/next week and see if it provides a boost. It's a pain in the ass when 9 times out of 10 I'm cutting my S&D with 1/5, but it seem that 1 out of 10 is really hurting me.

Thanks for the tips so far.