The World of Warcraft Armory

Is it the smart play for me to get the BoJ fist OH to go with my sword MH?

If so, what is the right spec for the mixed weapons?

Thanks!!

Theres an awesome post here that basically explains all that stuff in an easy to read and understand way: Roguecraft 101

Suggest you read it.
Maybe check out the spreadsheet linked at the bottom as well.

The smart play is for you to download the latest spreadsheets and input your gear into them to determine what your best upgrade path should be. The SMARTER play would be for you read through the last 10 pages of this thread and the Rogue Gear spreadsheet, along with their respective first posts to really see that this topic has been talked to death and you didn't bother searching either thread to read about this exact same topic.

I apologize in advance if this has been covered in this thread.. but I have been unable to find any recent data regarding Executioner vs. Mongoose on MH. I realize that this thread and the recent spreadsheet say that 2x mongoose is superior, but I am in question. Basically, I was one of the many rogues who put Executioner on my MH after seeing the flawed data, stating that Exec is better than mongoose once you reach a certain passive armor penetration.. later finding out that dual mongoose was in fact better in all instances for optimal DPS.

But my guild is currently working on Brutallus and I have been looking for every possible way to min/max and squeeze out more damage. After looking over numerous WWS reports of Brutallus kills, I armoried every rogue with <2100 DPS and almost every single one of them had Executioner on MH. Is there something I am missing here? Almost everything I can find says dual Mongoose is best. Yet, there are a ton of rogues topping the charts in Sunwell running Executioner/Mongoose.

Are these rogues just clueless and could be doing even more DPS with dual goose... or did I miss a memo somewhere?

Well it's not a huge difference. A few dps either way. The cost of mats to change over could just be too much for that little extra dps. But any new weapons you get you'd wanna dive straight into mongoose.

Ok, no one in WoW has giving me the proper answer for this, everyone goes to saying go swords... so please spare me your best spec openion and answer my question with facts.

i am a Fist spec PVE rogue. now when i equip my fist as MH, i gain %5 crit, DESPITE whatever the offhand is. even if the offhand is also FIST i would still get the 5% from the mainhand fist. so by having 2 fists i only gained 5% crit.

thats all fine to me. BUT, will the offhand fist crit more than having an offhand(sword/mace/dagger)?

should i stick to a fist offhand? or upgrade it to a better wep even if it is not Fist. keeping in mind the mainhand is Fist permanant.

I have a question as to what opener to use on a boss... i didnt see it in the roguecraft 101... but is SS always the ideal

opener for raid dps? Thx for the answer

Best opener for raid dps is always sinister strike (provided you're swords/fists/maces).

However, there's nothing more embarassing than SS crit, white hit crit, WF crit, Sword Spec Proc crit for about 12k damage in the first second of a fight. Yes, I did this on Kalecgos this week. Yes - he smacked me into the middle of next week.

Being dead severely limits your DPS.

Unless I know the tank is going to get good threat, and heavily misdirected, then I find it's best to stealth in and garotte, even though it's less opening DPS. At the end of the day, I'm not sure the 1-2k difference in damage is worth the risk.

I believe there have been calculations recently on this forum that if you can start in position, Garrote at the very opening of the fight is actually marginally more damage per energy than Sinister Strike, due to the lack of Sunders on the target for the first few seconds of the fight. That said, if you have to stealth in this advantage quickly disappears... but on, for instance, Brutallus, where you can start in position and never move, Garrote is a reasonable option.

Not to mention, Garrote [slightly] lowers the max potential burst that you can output on a luck streak of extra attack procs at the start of the fight. Ultimately, you can proc an infinite number of extra attacks if you have WF and a sword in your MH, but practically speaking.. well yea.

If you need to run to the start of the fight (Kalecgos), Sinister Strike is certainly the way to go. If you can start in position (Brutallus, Felmyst).. Garrote works nicely.

Hi all, I'm a wow player and my character is a lv 70 rogue.
I'd like to ask one thing about rogue gear and EP.
I've got a problem since blizzard applied the patch 2.4 about new badges loot, now I've got 154 badges of justice and I really don't know what to buy. Are there any possibilities to have an EP table not only for gear but also for weapons? Something that gives teh number of EP for each dps or something similar .
My problem is that at the moment I'm combat sword specced and I've got the two merciless gladiator swords, I love swords and the swords spccialization (+5% to have an extra attack), and I'd like to use badges to buy chest or waiste, but I think that using badges for the new fists and changing spec with the fists specialization (I think that the combat mechanic will be the same as swords) my dps will improve....But I'm not sure. If are there any ways to compare my actual gear (including weapons) and what I can buy with badges, I could find the best way to maximize my dps.
Anyway, I'm a PVE rogue, at the moment my guild, where I'm the main dps (not a full raiding guild), is farming kara and trying to get down the first bosses of zul'aman, waiting for 3-4 ppls to head to 25 men raid; so at the moment my gear is based on kara and some heroic drops, for example, I've got chestguard of the conniver, edgewalker boots, grips of defiesness, etc.
Thk you for reading and I'm sorry for my not-good english, I hope you answer me soon, bye all.
Iluat.

Opening with Garrote seems like the best option.

Garrote->SND and look at threat before beginning to build combo points.

This is quoted for truth. Our tank had some bad lack-of-aggro streaks last night on Felmyst, and this opening rotation is what saved us from pulling aggro.

personally i use garotte everytime.
Even for stealthing in, it's just the time our tanks need to get a decent amount of threat.
So its like a built-in "let the tank get threat"-skill :p

(especially as mutilate rogue burst damage can be quite heavy in the beginning)

Well, the thing is, the time you spent stealthing in could actually have been spent on target doing DPS (hell, don't use any yellow attacks at the start if you're threat-capped), and by the time you are in range to Garrotte, it's likely that all boss debuffs are up and you're not really gaining any extra DPE by using Garrote as your opener. It's better to get on target as quickly as possible and hold back a little bit than wait a while doing absolutely no damage. Remember, DPS is a nice number but damage (in the absolute sense) is what matters.

Not to be too pedantic but it's not actually true that you could have an infinite number of extra attacks in that situation.

I'm not sure how to get into the Latex mode on these forums or I'd show the math itself, but essentially what you're doing is taking the limit of the probability as the number of attacks goes to infinity. (On that note if someone could possible explain how to use the latex here that would be great, or at least I think I remember having read there was latex installed here)

Given that the probability of an extra attack is less than one it then follows that multiplying together an infinite number of values between zero and one will in the limit given you zero. This then means that it is actually impossible to have an infinite number of attacks. In fact the only way you could have a probability greater than zero is if the chance on hit for an extra attack for both windfury and sword spec was one in both cases, and then you would end up with an infinite number of extra attacks on every swing.

With regards to the opener discussion, at what point is optimal to first Slice and Dice? Right after you pull that first combo point, or wait until you get 4-5 points for your normal cycle? I realize it's a small difference, but when all you bring is dps...

This next question may be beyond the scope of the thread, but I'll ask regardless. I've recently found myself not only class leader, but a co-raid leader. While I have a decent understand of raid mechanics, I have a lot to learn. My question (finally, I know) is what should I watching the other rogues for? I understand what to do myself, but I'm not sure what "common" mistakes are. Basically, I want to avoid the dreaded "bad class leader" that everyone whispers about.

Also, what about group composition? The classes we available are the following:

Ret Paladin (well geared)
Ret Paladin (well geared)

Combat Rogue (well geared) (myself)
Shadowstep Backstab Rogue (well geared)
Combat Rogue (moderately geared)
Combat Rogue (poorly geared)

Enhancement Shaman (well geared)

Arms Warrior (moderately geared) (Blood Frenzy - 2h)
Fury Warrior (well geared) (Has the gear to go arms 2h Blood Frenzy)
Fury Warrior (well geared)

For my purposes, "well geared" means an optimal mix of t4 and s3 gear, with a few pieces of t5, t6 mixed in. For an example, look at my armory at The World of Warcraft Armory

Moderately geared is a character running with an s3 pvp set, and maybe a few "PvE" t4 epics.

Poorly geared is a mix of s1 (mostly) and scattered blues, with a few t4 drops.

We're learning SSC/TK/MH, if that's relevant to determining group composition.

Here's what I've been running:

Enhancement Shaman (well geared)
Combat Rogue (well geared) (myself)
Fury Warrior (well geared) (Has the gear to go arms 2h Blood Frenzy)
Shadowstep Backstab Rogue (well geared)
Ret Paladin (well geared)

Thoughts?

Replace the shs dagger rogue with the arms warrior. Shs dagger? Seriously? 0/0/0 would be funnier and not nearly as sad.

Snd gives the same dps benefit at 1 cp as it does at 5. Start it asap.

I know, I know. My problem is he puts out top damage, as he's one of our top geared players. He's also got the gear for it. I can't get him to spec out of it either.

On the flip side, I haven't put the arms warrior in there because he's always bottom of the barrel in dps. Sure, he isn't getting windfury, but he shouldn't be that low with his gear. Meh. Thanks for the input, it'll probably happen that way.

Cool, thanks.

New question:

I've put my gear through the rogue dps spreadsheet available http://rogue.raidcal.com/ However, it puts me at around 700 dps unbuffed, 1300 dps buffed. In practice, I'm running ~950 dps. I understand that I'm not perfect, and that raid encounters play out a lot differently. However, it still seems like a lot of dps behind.

I've double-checked my talents and gear. Gems, enchants, and buffs. I'm using the recommended cycle, etc. I try to stack similar cooldowns (i.e. blade flurry with a clean slice and dice cycle, etc), and have a consistent uptime of them.

The only thing I can think of is that it assumes optimal "up time" of outside cooldowns, such as unleashed rage and heroism. Even still, I don't think this would compensate for the dps difference.

Arms warriors do pitiful dps without WF. Just like Ret.

You should really look for answers in the WWS thread or the thread about the particular dps sheet you're looking at. Keep in mind those sheets do nothing to take into account bad days, bad RNG time, and any fight that makes drags you off target for any length of time kills your damage. The sheets never take that into account, how could they.

You said you're in tk/eye/mh? about the only fights the sheet will probably have a chance to come close on are morogrim and anetheron. I guess you'd see ok numbers if you got a rage with 0 Death and Decays on the melee but still.

No, that's just it: There's no such thing as "having the gear for it" with a ShS Backstab build. It's just 100% awful in almost every single way. I really don't know how he's outdamaging everyone in your raid unless his gear is light-years ahead of all of your Rogues, Warlocks, Mages, and BM Hunters.

The Arms Warrior isn't there for massive personal DPS -- he's there for added raid DPS. He needs to be in the melee group for the buffs if you want his damage to be anything approaching respectable. His personal damage will almost always be pretty garbage if he's not getting Windfury. He really does need it.

Honestly? Drop the ShS Rogue from the group. Since he refuses to respec for the benefit of the raid, refuse to give him the best raid group.

Doesn't recount take into account the time you're not on your target when it calculates your dps? I always assumed it did.

I'll take the suggestions about the Arms Warrior / ShS Rogue. Any other suggestions for a new rogue "leader"?