I am sorry, I most have been unclear in my question. It is my understanding in reading this thread, that HR is generally the most important stat, as a whole. Should HR remain my main priority (ie - using +hit instead of +agi gem) or can I start to look at improving my other stats?

You must have misunderstood then.
Hit Rating isnt the most important stat, but the one that generaelly yields the best dps upgrade point for point, compared to other stats.
Having over 300 hit rating is all good and even great assuming your raid buffs dont throw you over the top of the cap, but it is in no way the most important thing to aim for when choosing gear/gem/enchant upgrades.
To better choose what to aim for with future items, follow the simple instructions in the first post, and use the Spreadsheet linked at the bottom of that very same post.
It just doesnt get simpler than that.

So, there are actually two questions here:

1) Should I gem for hit or for agility, and
2) Is hit my main priority.

The answer to the first question is a matter or personal preference. At this point you're above the hit cap against level 71s and very close to it for 72s, so pumping further hit basically does nothing against trash and bosses with adds. However, it's still the most valuable stat against level 73s (bosses) so you'll get slightly more damage on them than you would by stacking a lesser stat.

The answer to the second question is no. Your main priority is selecting the gear that will give you the largest DPS increase. Hit is a valuable stat which will increase your DPS... but there are lots of other stats that do as well, and you should pick items based on which items have the best combination of stats that will yield the most DPS. At no point should you find yourself thinking "I need to wear this item because I need the hit". You should select all pieces of gear based on how much DPS they give, and wear the best ones. The exact hit value matters only so far as making sure you're not over the hit cap.

Although your conclusion is generally accurate (keep the ret pally in the melee group).. I disagree that Ret Pallies benefit more from UR. While you may have *slightly* more AP (3-500 or so, greatly depending on gear and buffs).. you are not Dual Wield. You're AP applies to a single weapon, ours applies to both weapons. Also, consider that Crusader Strike is on a 6 second CD while Sinister Strike can be preformed roughly every 3 to 3.5 seconds.

Either way, I wouldn't recommend bringing 3 rogues and a ret paladin to the same raid if you are trying to maximize raid dps. Ret Paladin + Rogues should pretty much always be 3. I believe Zurm was planning on a more lengthy writeup about this general topic for the Ret thread, this thread should remain on the Rogue topics and not raid composition.

Thanks! I've been looking for a solution that problem.

I would suggest adding: "/run UIErrorsFrame:Clear()" to the end. It will clear the error spam you get from constantly having "cast" SS within the 1 second GCD and/or before you have enough energy. If you have a G9 mouse (or something similar with a wheel that doesn't click-scroll but rather free-scrolls).. you end up with a LOT of spam REALLY quickly.

/startattack
/cast Sinister Strike
/run UIErrorsFrame:Clear()

In my experience, /startattack in a macro with an ability you use DECREASES your dps because every time you push the button for the macro, it resets your swing timer. I may be wrong though.

It doesn't reset your swing timer.

Hi there,

Right now Im using the Blade of Infamy and Vanir's Left Fist of Savagery, before i had the S2 sword in offhand. And now im thinking of getting the MH fist but Im not really sure if it's better to use Sword/fist, Fist/sword, Fist/Fist or Sword/Sword with the weapons I have. So I hope someone can help me out with this because i don't want to waste 105 badges on a fist weapon if it's not going to boost my DPs.

Thanks for all answers.

The Spreadsheet could help you.

Days and days of effort have been put into creating and maintaining two excellent rogue spreadsheets which are both available on these forums. These spreadsheets are designed specifically to address questions just like this. In addition, there is even discussion about weapon specs on the first post of this very thread.

If you've made some effort to use the spreadsheets to answer your question, then you might get some willing responses. But until you do so, you probably will find that the people here aren't willing to go to extra trouble to accommodate the lazy.

Just a heads up for the rogues, I've made a raid spot comparison with Latito, comparing ret pallies and rogues in various group setups. I think a lot of you may find it interesting.

Ret vs Rogue Raid Spots

Criticism is welcome, feel free to look it over and post/PM either of us. There may be a feral analysis at some point in the future.

I thought this was already a pretty well accepted idea at higher-tier content

I've been using EJ almost from the moment I started leveling a rogue. In my guild, we are currently 3/5 Hyjal, and working on Kael this upcoming week. I consider myself well versed in a lot of rogue queries, but coming into t6 content I have a question regarding haste.

I read in a post a while back that haste and hit are similar. Haste increases the amount of hits in X amount of time, while hit increases X amount of hits landed. My question: Is haste weighted the same as hit? Say for example in my current gear I have just over 300 hit, 1900ap, about 24% crit. Using a spreadsheet I see that a glove upgrade with haste will be better than the one with hit. Is it then advisable to take the haste upgrade over losing the hit?

Please forgive me if I began rambling.

Hit and haste do somewhat similar things in that they increase the number of white hits you get, but the similarities end there. Because they do so in different ways, their scaling properties are really pretty different; hence, this is why they are scored separately in the EP weights in the first post of this thread.

In terms of whether it's better to take hit over haste... depends on how much of each, and what else you're giving up. The spreadsheet is your friend here - it will recommend which is better on an item by item basis, eliminating the need for crude rules of the form "hit is usually better than haste" or vice versa.

Thanks for the quick response. Looks like I'll be taking the haste gloves!

Fairly sure they don't stack, locks should just keep up CoT, if your locks are having trouble keeping up CoT then you MIGHT want to put up MN, but I remember our rogues complaining that they were getting high resist rates on their MN poisons when they were trying to put it up the night that we had no locks for P2

CoT won't block mind numbing (or vice versa) in the way that Sunder and EA block each other, but the effects do not stack.

For situations where a cast MUST BE SLOWED, it can be handy to keep MN on.

The DPS loss from using MN instead of DP is, at most, 75 DPS assuming a full stack of 5 up 100% of the time. The DPS loss from using CoT instead of CoD is at least 70 assuming 0 +damage.

The raid is much better off with MN unless something prevents it from being applied or maintained.

This is often the case. While I agree that MN is a less of a rDPS loss, often times (RoS p2, Council Priest) it won't always stay stacked up there. Rogues can, and probably should in those cases, shiv to keep it on. However once we start talking about shiv.. that dps loss to the rogue starts to increase. Its a bit more sketchy to keep up, and generally the raid pretty much requires it staying up. If you can take the relatively small (from a raid standpoint) dps hit, having a lock put up CoT once every 30 seconds is the safer option in nearly all cases. But yes, if your raid requires every last ounce of dps, MN would be better dps than CoT.

As far as haste goes, some dirty math as to why hit is slightly better, point for point. Keep in mind haste and hit require the same amount of rating to increase the respective stat by 1%:

Assume you're taking 100 swings in 100 seconds, or a 1.0 attack speed, and you have 90% to hit at a base. Now, if you add 1% hit, you'll hit 91 times in that 100 seconds. If you add 1% haste, you'll swing 101 times in that 100 seconds, but still only hit 90% of them, which works out to 90.9 hits in the given time period. As you would expect from an ugly example like this, the values of haste and hit are very close by EP, with hit slightly ahead. The value of haste approaches that of hit as you approach the hitcap, and would surpass it if you ever managed to get 100% hit for whatever reason.

I've been looking over a lot of Brutallus DPS reports lately, seeing what factors would cause different DPS over one another outside of the obvious gear, buff and group setup. More specifically, I've been looking at the RNG based procs.

I'm sure we've all had anomalies in our expected DPS reports, only to find a higher crit rate, or freakish amount of WF procs, Sword Spec procs or Combat Potency Procs that allowed us to do a higher amount of damage than would be expected of us.

Now since I’m not very good at math the way that a lot of you on these boards are, this is more of a request to one of you statisticians who are bored on a Monday to possibly create a rough baseline of the number of procs we should be seeing on a static timed fight so we can look at WWS reports with more of an over/under average mindset in regards to those procs.

The three procs that I believe can swing DPS numbers the most are Windfury, Sword Spec, and Combat Potency. These are also independent of the number of crits or the cycle that we choose to perform. Weapon attack speeds and the length of the fight would obviously be a factor. I don’t have a situation to solve weapon speeds, but since we all tend to agree that Brutallus is the new benchmark, 6 minutes would make sense for the length of the fight.

I know this is possible since we have two spreadsheets that work with proc uptimes in a more complex manner than an estimated average. Maybe if someone could help me with a formula where I could plug in the different variables in Excel?

If no one is up to the work, I understand. I’m just curious how far over/under people are when you can see a range of low 20’s to mid 50’s on WF/SS procs and what amount we should be seeing, on average.