Roguecraft 101 - Page 207

mmreed · 05/22/08, 3:33 PM

Hello fellow rogues.

I have been reading through the many pages here, and would like to solicit some advice and help.

I am a combat dagger rogue.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Currently my rotation is use Sinister Strike to build 4CPs then do a SnD. Use SinStrike to build 5CPs and do a rupture. By the time I sinstrike 4 CPs, its time to renew Snd (has a few seconds left).. so basically I repeat the sequence.

In looking at the damage formulas, it looks like it would be better if I switched to Backstabs to generate my CPs. They would generate slower, but the BS dmg would be better than the SinStrike. Am I looking at this the right way?

Also - I have tried looking over my stats and gear to see if there is anything I should change. Not the actual gear yet, but the gems and enchants - I havent noticed any, but I would like some of the better versed players to take a look.

My main goal is to put out as much DPS as I can witht he current gear that I have. My intent is to upgrade via badge items as soon as possible.

• Aldriana · 05/22/08, 3:41 PM

Sinister striking as a dagger rogue is, if you'll pardon me for saying so, beyond stupid. There are occasionally times when you don't have a choice in the matter, but as a general rule you want to be using backstab whenever you possibly can if you're using daggers. If you prefer to use SS, you should get yourself some good swords/fists/maces; the Vanir's fists from badges are a nice option if you wish to go that route.

Stabmaster · 05/22/08, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by mmreed

Hello fellow rogues.

I have been reading through the many pages here, and would like to solicit some advice and help.

I am a combat dagger rogue.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Currently my rotation is use Sinister Strike to build 4CPs then do a SnD. Use SinStrike to build 5CPs and do a rupture. By the time I sinstrike 4 CPs, its time to renew Snd (has a few seconds left).. so basically I repeat the sequence.

In looking at the damage formulas, it looks like it would be better if I switched to Backstabs to generate my CPs. They would generate slower, but the BS dmg would be better than the SinStrike. Am I looking at this the right way?

Also - I have tried looking over my stats and gear to see if there is anything I should change. Not the actual gear yet, but the gems and enchants - I havent noticed any, but I would like some of the better versed players to take a look.

My main goal is to put out as much DPS as I can witht he current gear that I have. My intent is to upgrade via badge items as soon as possible.

1) Using Sinister Strike as your main attack for Combat Dagger is HORRIBLE. You should be using Backstab.
2) You shouldn't even be Combat Dagger, switch to Mutilate.

Ruqas · 05/22/08, 3:44 PM

Originally Posted by mmreed

Hello fellow rogues.

I have been reading through the many pages here, and would like to solicit some advice and help.

I am a combat dagger rogue.
The World of Warcraft Armory

Currently my rotation is use Sinister Strike to build 4CPs then do a SnD. Use SinStrike to build 5CPs and do a rupture. By the time I sinstrike 4 CPs, its time to renew Snd (has a few seconds left).. so basically I repeat the sequence.

In looking at the damage formulas, it looks like it would be better if I switched to Backstabs to generate my CPs. They would generate slower, but the BS dmg would be better than the SinStrike. Am I looking at this the right way?

Also - I have tried looking over my stats and gear to see if there is anything I should change. Not the actual gear yet, but the gems and enchants - I havent noticed any, but I would like some of the better versed players to take a look.

My main goal is to put out as much DPS as I can witht he current gear that I have. My intent is to upgrade via badge items as soon as possible.

At the risk of sounding like an ass, is this a joke? Seriously, dude, wtf?

At your gear level, you should know this by now. Of course, backstab does more damage. Sinister Strike is an absolutely terrible substitute for your main damaging move with a combat daggers build. And you're not even specced right. Go 15/41/5. Dude, get your shit together.

Dragonus-Drenden · 05/22/08, 7:30 PM

Hey,

I've been debating this for a few days now, and im wondering if the Spiteblade off Netherspite would be a worthwhile upgrade from my S1 Glad. Fist .......

If you have any thoughts, plz feel free to take a look at my gear on the armory and get back here.

Thanks,

Any input is greatly appreciated

D

Ashere · 05/22/08, 7:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonus-Drenden

Hey,

I've been debating this for a few days now, and im wondering if the Spiteblade off Netherspite would be a worthwhile upgrade from my S1 Glad. Fist .......

If you have any thoughts, plz feel free to take a look at my gear on the armory and get back here.

Thanks,

Any input is greatly appreciated

D

Short answer: No.
Long story: Spiteblade has a horrible droprate, about every rogue who wanted it at first suddenly went to AV and EotS when S1 gear became wellfare, and the only reason why some still want spiteblade is: out of spite, for the sodded thing never dropping in 20+ kara raids (if not more)

Dragonus-Drenden · 05/22/08, 7:55 PM

However, if it does happen to drop, is it a worthwhile upgrade?

That was more my question .... if it doesn't drop, then it doesn't drop. But if, by chance, it does ... is it worth switching to? Do that +stats on it make it worth the loss in DPS from the Fist?

Caspian · 05/22/08, 8:01 PM

I did a general switch based on how you're specced. Yes, if the Spiteblade drops and you switch to 5/5 Sword spec, then Spiteblade is an upgrade.
For future questions like these, might I suggest using the Rogue Spreadsheet. It will help you get your answer much more quickly.

Furien · 05/22/08, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dragonus-Drenden

Hey,

I've been debating this for a few days now, and im wondering if the Spiteblade off Netherspite would be a worthwhile upgrade from my S1 Glad. Fist .......

If you have any thoughts, plz feel free to take a look at my gear on the armory and get back here.

Thanks,

Any input is greatly appreciated

D

Plug it into one of the spreadsheets because that's what we have to do to give you an answer.

However I think you'll find Spiteblade a sidegrade, the S1 weapons are slightly superior to Spiteblade.

Annihilus · 05/23/08, 12:50 AM

Do an above poster about Expertise, it's frickin' sweet, period. I'm about Expertise capped (not now I'm in Pvp gear and spec) and the other night against Vashj my Sinister Strike miss% was less than 1%, which is a personal record. My missed melee swings were like 1.2% misses.

Question, a Rogue in my guild got the Claw of Molten Fury but he already had Vanir's Fist of Brutality for his main hand. He also has the OH and now has the two-piece set. I ran him through the Rogue DPS Spreadsheet with his current gear/spec and then again with the Claw replacing the Vanir's fist and it shows him losing 17DPS. He is arguing the point that the proc rate on the weapon will make up the difference. In my opinion, I don't see how because 17DPS is well..., 17DPS. Does the proc rate of the Claw of Molten Fury's set bonus make up for the loss of DPS? Please somebody chime in on this.

Thanks,

Anni

Feist-Mok · 05/23/08, 1:28 AM

Originally Posted by Annihilus

Do an above poster about Expertise, it's frickin' sweet, period. I'm about Expertise capped (not now I'm in Pvp gear and spec) and the other night against Vashj my Sinister Strike miss% was less than 1%, which is a personal record. My missed melee swings were like 1.2% misses.

Question, a Rogue in my guild got the Claw of Molten Fury but he already had Vanir's Fist of Brutality for his main hand. He also has the OH and now has the two-piece set. I ran him through the Rogue DPS Spreadsheet with his current gear/spec and then again with the Claw replacing the Vanir's fist and it shows him losing 17DPS. He is arguing the point that the proc rate on the weapon will make up the difference. In my opinion, I don't see how because 17DPS is well..., 17DPS. Does the proc rate of the Claw of Molten Fury's set bonus make up for the loss of DPS? Please somebody chime in on this.

Thanks,

Anni

I believe the spreadsheet models the proc. Even if it doesn't, it's terrible, and not worth chasing.

Roefyll · 05/23/08, 1:39 AM

I used the Molten Fury set for a short while.

I added the proc modelling to the DPS spreadsheet myself from my own WWS stats testing, since there was no data available at the time. (The Molten Fury set IS in the official DPS spreadsheet now, complete with proc)

They were worth using during that short window between 2.4 going live and the heroic badge vendor being unlocked.

Annihilus · 05/23/08, 1:47 AM

Originally Posted by Roefyll

I used the Molten Fury set for a short while.

I added the proc modelling to the DPS spreadsheet myself from my own WWS stats testing, since there was no data available at the time. (The Molten Fury set IS in the official DPS spreadsheet now, complete with proc)

They were worth using during that short window between 2.4 going live and the heroic badge vendor being unlocked.

Sweet. Yeah, I couldn't see any reason for him to make the switch. The Badge Fist is much better. NOt that the CoMF is bad, it's just not better than Vanir's.

Anybody know what the internal proc is on the Claw of Molten Fury?

Meiryuu · 05/23/08, 7:59 AM

Hello everyone,
I'm currently trying to determine if Combat swords with Heartless and Akil-zon's Talonblade(dual mongoose) would be superior to Combat fists with dual Vanir's (also both mongoose). I currently have T4 set two bonus with some badge gear; my guild is Pre-SSC. I tried using the spread sheet to figure out if I should enchant the swords or spend the badges on the fists but the spreadsheet keeps crashing on my laptop. I've looked through a lot of the posts hoping to see if anyone else has had the same issue/debate. So if anyone can help me out it would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
Meiryuu-70 BE Rogue Feathermoon

Aaberg · 05/23/08, 8:14 AM

Meiryuu, what system and program are you using?