Roguecraft 101 - Page 52

Shanksta · 12/24/07, 7:42 PM

Can you guys help me out with how many combat potency procs I would get with the amount of hit rating I have (in general numbers maybe in inter voles of 10 or so). I would also like to know about some better rotations based on Combat potency procs. Thanks for your time.

Balkoth · 12/24/07, 9:27 PM

I'd suggest going to the Gear Spreadsheet, adjust the talents on the right hand side, and then enter in your offhand weapon. The cycle it describes is a maintainable cycle based upon the expected Combat Potency and Relentless Strikes procs.

Lukon · 12/25/07, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by Grunge

Edit: On a different note, we've lost all our ferals, and have been raiding without mangle. I know that this has been gone over a hundred times, but does anyone have a comprehensive list/spreadsheet table with the cutoff points?

For ordinary combat I guess it's not much of a question, but since my average crit has been coming up to 45%+ recently (coupled with 3k+ ap). I remember there were some examples in one of the rogue spreadsheet threads, but I'm not really looking forward to digging through them. (If I remember correctly it assumed 3000ap as well, but only 30 or 35% crit.)

I'm at a similar level of gear at the moment. Even with a heap of crit and armor ignored, rupture is still a fair bit better. Without mangle my calculations have eviscerate and rupture doing almost the same amount of damage, 1850. But the extra 10 energy from rupture is worth around 600 damage.

Vestalina · 12/26/07, 11:25 AM

This may be a little bit off-topic and sorry if this was mentioned before somewhere but...

With the 15% nerf and the 10% increased Hemo damage in Sinister Calling, that leaves a 5% nerf in Hemo damage (if one decides to spec that deep into Subtlety).

Does Hemo at 120% damage still scale better then Sinister Strike? With the increased debuff taken into account, is this really that big of a nerf for Hemo if one were to spec Shadowstep Non-Dagger?

Thanks.

• Aldriana · 12/26/07, 11:50 AM

Searching around the last few pages of the recently-locked Hemo thread would give you the answer to this question, which is, roughly speaking:

Speccing that deep into subtlety costs you a lot of really good combat and/or assassination talents, and pretty clearly results in a build that does a fair amount less damage than traditional combat. It does have a few utility and survival talents that are potentially helpful in raids, but most people (myself included) feel that they're not worth losing so much DPS to get.

On the other hand, Tri-Spec Hemo is still a reasonably solid build for raiding; if most Hemo charges are used, it will do comparable or slightly superior damage to combat. Typically, it's a little stronger than combat at T4 levels of itemization, but falls behind as you move into T6. For exact details, I would recommend consulting a spreadsheet to see which works better for you.

Latito · 12/26/07, 6:34 PM

Just a heads up for anyone out there who has some technical skills and ambition.. I'm currently in the process of writing a DPS Simulator. This started as an "I'm bored" project and I've been putting more and more time into it as the work is quite enjoyable.

Key information:
-Written in Java. Its one of the 3 programming languages I know best, its one of the most well-known languages, platform independant, etc.
-Based on entering the Gear/Buffs you have, not your stats (something I feel is a flaw with DPS Sims for other classes).
-Quite generic in that I could add functionality to say.. model Warrior DPS.. just by adding in their attacks and warrior-unique items. All of the Gear/Buffs/etc would just be reused.
-I'm writing it with the ability to log just as the WoW combat logger works. You could upload your DPS Sim to WWS, cutting a lot of the "report" type functionality out of this app.
-I'm currently working on the back end logic, I do no have any GUI at all. Ideally I would be looking for someone to help write a GUI. This would either be a web interface or treating this like a standalone application that can be downloaded and used.

At this point I have a working framework which handles adding gear and talents to a player and handling "Events" which reside on a queue. Essentially, I can auto-attack with most talents working. The next main sections I'll be doing are adding all the proc-type stuff from various items (mostly trinkets) and a yellow-dps AI.

If you have the skills and would be interested in helping, please PM me and we can go from there. I'm mainly looking for GUI help, that is certainly my weaker area.

If you are unable to help and just eager to use it - No ETA.

Teip · 12/26/07, 9:04 PM

I was wondering if anyone has tried the new +20 to hit food vs the +20 agility food? I am far from hit cap and will be trying it out tonight in KZ.

Overall +20 hit would be worth more than 20 agility since I am far from cap right? (248 to rating + 5/5 Precision Talent)

This is my first post.

Dontmindme · 12/26/07, 9:11 PM

Generally speaking, yes, Hit rating is better than Agility at a certain gear level, but if you want a more exact answer for your gear and talents, I suggest inputting them into one or both of the two running Rogue spreadsheets. Links are in the first post of this thread I believe.

Hurtfulpotato · 12/26/07, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by Teip

I was wondering if anyone has tried the new +20 to hit food vs the +20 agility food? I am far from hit cap and will be trying it out tonight in KZ.

Overall +20 hit would be worth more than 20 agility since I am far from cap right? (248 to rating + 5/5 Precision Talent)

This is my first post.

As Dontmindme said, the spreadsheets are the place to look for maximizing DPS, but allow me to put in a practical concern:

Talbuk meat is far easier to farm than warped flesh and dovetails nicely with getting the thick clefthoof leather for drums of battle.

Evy · 12/27/07, 12:39 AM

Originally Posted by Teip

Overall +20 hit would be worth more than 20 agility since I am far from cap right? (248 to rating + 5/5 Precision Talent)

I'm pretty sure that if you are a Combat Sword/Fist or Combat Hemo spec, then 20 hit will be the better option. If you're CDaggers then 20 agility will edge it out slightly.

But yea, as the poster above said, you'd probably be best off checking with one of the spreadsheets.

• Vulajin · 12/27/07, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Teip

I was wondering if anyone has tried the new +20 to hit food vs the +20 agility food? I am far from hit cap and will be trying it out tonight in KZ.

Overall +20 hit would be worth more than 20 agility since I am far from cap right? (248 to rating + 5/5 Precision Talent)

This is my first post.

On self-buffs: [Flask of Relentless Assault] is the best DPS option for your elixir slots; however, [Elixir of Major Agility] is very close behind. In general, choose the flask for progression and the elixir for farm content. Your best food option is [Spicy Hot Talbuk] if you're combat or Hemo+swords, [Warp Burger] otherwise. [Haste Potion] are extremely powerful if used on cooldown, but save your potion timer if you know you'll be taking a lot of damage. If you're a leatherworker, [Drums of Battle] > [Drums of War].

Appropriate section of the first post quoted, with the relevant sentence bolded.

Birgitte · 12/27/07, 7:21 AM

A few questions on glancing blows:

1. Can sword spec proc off of a glancing blow?
2. Can poisons proc off of a glancing blow?

Mideci · 12/27/07, 7:37 AM

Yes and yes, as far as I know. You might want to update the guild and server tags, however.

Himmel · 12/27/07, 10:30 AM

Excuse me, didn't found an answer on the forum yet so I have to ask here:

Most classic combat swords rogues (including me) have 3 points in Vile Poisons, I know that Vile Poisons win in DPS modelling. As I understand dps modelling based on totally static fights.

But what about Improved Poisons and bosses wich require high mobility from rogue and time rogue actually damaging is quite low? (and there's not much bosses where rogue can peacefully stand and repeat the cycles)

Ozzmar · 12/27/07, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Himmel

Excuse me, didn't found an answer on the forum yet so I have to ask here:

Most classic combat swords rogues (including me) have 3 points in Vile Poisons, I know that Vile Poisons win in DPS modelling. As I understand dps modelling based on totally static fights.

But what about Improved Poisons and bosses wich require high mobility from rogue and time rogue actually damaging is quite low? (and there's not much bosses where rogue can peacefully stand and repeat the cycles)

Because you're asking about an un-modelable (or, at least, unspecified) amount of running around, all you really have to work with is the individual DPS value of the talents you're asking about. If you want to get really detailed, you could easily figure out the amount of damage (on average) per swing that each of those talent choices would make, but I strongly doubt that 3/5 Improved Poisons in those runaround fights is going to get you more mileage than 3/5 Vile would overall for any type of fight.

But, because you asked, I'll at least try...

I'm not a math whiz by any means, but I'll take a shot at showing the damage added to a single swing on average (because you're asking about brief DPS time).

Deadly Poison VII
30% proc rate
180 Damage over 12 up to 5 stacks

With no talents, DP would add about
180 * .3 = 54 damage per swing

3/5 Vile would put the damage at 201.6 over 12.
3/5 Improved would give DP a 36% proc rate.

So, you can basically say with that one swing you have a 30% chance to do 201.6 damage, or 36% chance to do 180 damage.

201.6 * .3 = approximately 60.48 damage added on a swing (12% increase, obviously)
180 * .36 = approximately 64.8 damage added to a swing (20%)

Improved would come out ahead in the little static world I've created where you swing once, but in reality, you would need to model a fight involving several procs to really see where Vile will overtake Improved. I'll leave that to the experts.