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Old 12/27/07, 4:26 PM   #781
Shaker
AUGH CHAMPION TIME
 
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Human Rogue
 
Elune
The other thing is - if you're actually being careful about watching a Deadly stack, you can always Shiv upon coming back in and save the stack - I am reasonably sure that it's a net increase in DPS to shiv a dropping deadly stack than let it fall (in order to use SS). Of course, I personally don't really monitor my deadly stack that closely. :P

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Old 12/27/07, 4:40 PM   #782
Milano
Von Kaiser
 
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Pandaren Monk
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Originally Posted by Shaker View Post
The other thing is - if you're actually being careful about watching a Deadly stack, you can always Shiv upon coming back in and save the stack - I am reasonably sure that it's a net increase in DPS to shiv a dropping deadly stack than let it fall (in order to use SS). Of course, I personally don't really monitor my deadly stack that closely. :P
Cutup from wowace.com got a own bar for monitoring poison stacks/duration

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Old 12/27/07, 4:49 PM   #783
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Shaker View Post
The other thing is - if you're actually being careful about watching a Deadly stack, you can always Shiv upon coming back in and save the stack - I am reasonably sure that it's a net increase in DPS to shiv a dropping deadly stack than let it fall (in order to use SS). Of course, I personally don't really monitor my deadly stack that closely. :P
I did a little napkin math on this earlier in the thread and my conclusion was that although it's probably a very slight increase to do it, the reward is hardly commensurate with the effort. I'm talking a fractional DPS increase at best.

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Old 12/27/07, 6:22 PM   #784
Shaker
AUGH CHAMPION TIME
 
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Human Rogue
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Milano View Post
Cutup from wowace.com got a own bar for monitoring poison stacks/duration
This brings up a good point - I don't think we really have a good raiding mods (rogue-specific) section on this thread ...

Would anyone care to bring up a few?

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Old 12/27/07, 6:23 PM   #785
sildani
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Dalaran
I read through the thread and didn't find something on this, thought I'd bring it up:

What should one consider when comparing an OH dagger versus an OH sword for a Combat Swords raiding spec? In other words, at what Speed/DPS does an OH dagger's increased chance at CP procs overcome the Sword Spec procs of an OH sword?

The context is that I have the Arena Season 2 OH dagger and I'm trying to decide if the Arena Season 1 OH sword would be a better choice for a sword spec, despite the DPS and speed differences.

(Edited to clarify my point by adding CP detail.)

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Old 12/27/07, 6:29 PM   #786
sildani
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by sildani View Post
I read through the thread and didn't find something on this, thought I'd bring it up:

What should one consider when comparing an OH dagger versus an OH sword for a Combat Swords raiding spec? In other words, at what Speed/DPS does an OH dagger's increased chance at CP procs overcome the Sword Spec procs of an OH sword?

The context is that I have the Arena Season 2 OH dagger and I'm trying to decide if the Arena Season 1 OH sword would be a better choice for a sword spec, despite the DPS and speed differences.

(Edited to clarify my point by adding CP detail.)
Geez I feel sheepish. After re-reading the initial post I found this note:

"For Hemo/sword rogues, each 0.1 increment of speed can be equated to roughly 5 extra weapon DPS in favor of the faster weapon. For rogues without sword spec, you can convert each 0.1 increment to 2 extra weapon DPS for the faster weapon."

That explains what I needed to know... sorry for not reading more carefully before posting.

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Old 12/27/07, 6:42 PM   #787
sildani
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Dalaran
Originally Posted by sildani View Post
Geez I feel sheepish. After re-reading the initial post I found this note:

"For Hemo/sword rogues, each 0.1 increment of speed can be equated to roughly 5 extra weapon DPS in favor of the faster weapon. For rogues without sword spec, you can convert each 0.1 increment to 2 extra weapon DPS for the faster weapon."

That explains what I needed to know... sorry for not reading more carefully before posting.
Alrighty, not to beat on this topic yet again, but I guess I actually don't know what I would like to know. I've drawn up this chart:

              S1 OH Sw  S2 OH Dg
Base DPS          91.0      97.5
Speed              1.5       1.4
CP Bonus DPS         0        10
SS Bonus DPS        ??         0
I guess what I couldn't deduce from the post, after careful re-reading, is what the value of the Sword Spec was when comparing a Sword to another weapon type for the OH slot. (Hence, the ?? up in my chart.)

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 12/27/07, 9:47 PM   #788
Feist-Mok
Im***est.
 
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Human Rogue
 
Ysera
Originally Posted by Shaker View Post
This brings up a good point - I don't think we really have a good raiding mods (rogue-specific) section on this thread ...

Would anyone care to bring up a few?


The ones I rely on are Cutup - specifically it's julianne module - for slice and dice timing, Classtimer for sap/stun/rupture/poison watching, Pitbull's spark module for incoming energy ticks, and Quartz for big enemy casting bars to interrupt.

+ the obvious threatmeter type stuff.

edit: in the vein of this thread, I'd also suggest Pawn since it's easy to plug in the EP values from threadstart for easy gear assessment on the fly.

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Old 12/27/07, 10:00 PM   #789
Oscarvil
Piston Honda
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Proudmoore
Originally Posted by Shaker View Post
This brings up a good point - I don't think we really have a good raiding mods (rogue-specific) section on this thread ...

Would anyone care to bring up a few?
I actually made a post about this in this thread, post number 483, nobody seemed particularly interested at the time but I still think it would be a good section to have.

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Old 12/27/07, 10:45 PM   #790
• Vulajin
Vula'jin the Void, blessed by the loa
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by sildani View Post
I read through the thread and didn't find something on this, thought I'd bring it up:

What should one consider when comparing an OH dagger versus an OH sword for a Combat Swords raiding spec? In other words, at what Speed/DPS does an OH dagger's increased chance at CP procs overcome the Sword Spec procs of an OH sword?

The context is that I have the Arena Season 2 OH dagger and I'm trying to decide if the Arena Season 1 OH sword would be a better choice for a sword spec, despite the DPS and speed differences.

(Edited to clarify my point by adding CP detail.)
If you are sword specced, there is no point at which it is worthwhile to use a dagger instead of a sword in your offhand. Suitably fast offhand swords are available ([Latro's Shifting Sword], [Gladiator's Quickblade] and its variants), and while they give up very slight increments of speed compared to daggers, an offhand sword grants you offhand sword spec procs, which account for a significant portion of your sword spec bonus damage.

Beyond my advice, you should check a spreadsheet, as this question will be trivially addressed by any of the available ones.

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Old 12/28/07, 1:47 AM   #791
trif
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Druid
 
Vashj (EU)
I've searched already, not seen any sign of a post reguarding Blade Twisting, so i was thinking, yea, its not as good as crippling poison, but if it can't be dispelled by BoF/shapeshifting like Daze from a mob can't it could have its uses, has any testing been done in this area?

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Old 12/28/07, 3:01 AM   #792
• Aldriana
Mike Tyson
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
Well, snares such as crippling poison are primarily useful in PvP; in PvE, and in particular for raiding, very few things need to be snared, so the viability in PvE - which is the focus of this thread - is fairly minimal. In particular, some months ago I ran with 2/2 Blade Twisting and I don't recall ever noticing it proc.

In terms of PvP utility: I can imagine it being somewhat useful, but that would perhaps be a better question for one of the rogue PvP threads.

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Old 12/28/07, 4:56 AM   #793
Latito
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Rogue
 
Lightbringer
On the topic of Addons.. basically you need to do a few things: (I've listen the mods I use in brackets)
-Watch threat (Omen)
-Watch energy / combo points (EnergyWatch v2)
-Watch SnD time [and other procs/dots to a lesser extent] (ClassTimer)
-Watch enemy cast times (Quartz)

And some more optional stuff:
-Watch our own health (X-Perl)
-Watch boss health and Target of Target (X-Perl)
-Damage Meters (Recount)
-Bar Mod (Bongos2)
-Combat Text Display (Scrolling Combat Text)
-Watch Boss Timers (Big Wigs)
-Watch Buffs (ElkBuffBars)
-Combat Log (AutoCL)
-Watch Equipment Durability (DuabilityFu)
-Cut down on spam (RogueSpam)
-Automate Poison/Flash Powder stuff (Hemlock)

I would definitely recommend Omen, ClassTimer, Quartz (especially for rogues on RoS), BigWigs (DBM works ok too), RogueSpam and Hemlock. The rest you can get by without (default UI works ok), or there are very suitable replacements. A good UI can definately improve your performance in a raid - a simple SnD timer of any sort will go a long way to helping your DPS. The rest of the mods basically help keep you alive and do other helpful things.

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Old 12/28/07, 5:19 AM   #794
ekval
Piston Honda
 
Worgen Rogue
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Originally Posted by trif View Post
I've searched already, not seen any sign of a post reguarding Blade Twisting, so i was thinking, yea, its not as good as crippling poison, but if it can't be dispelled by BoF/shapeshifting like Daze from a mob can't it could have its uses, has any testing been done in this area?
It procced all the time when I tested it, but it definetly ain't worth of it for PvE. In PvP it is quite good against shapeshifting druids etc. You don't see many people using it since either they don't know it is quite good talent for PvP (or prefer some other filler) or they are AR/Prep and BladeTwisting doesn't affect hemo. For PvE, not worth. For PvP SS builds probably worth if you seem to face alot druids in arenas (2v2).

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Old 12/28/07, 10:29 AM   #795
Darlal
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Doomhammer
It should be noted that, if properly formatted, ElkBuffBars will give you all the info from ClassTimers and RogueTimers as well as SnD timers. I have it set up with 8 different buff/debuff categories, yes it's a bit messy, but it also puts each buff exactly where I want it. I'm not sure if it's still around, but natur enemy cast bars is an amazing addon for tracking cooldowns of all types, but also needs a good bit of self formatting.

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