volant

It's nice to know other hunters have been seeing some odd aggro behavior recently. In the last few weeks hunters in my guild have pulled aggro on Illidan, Azgalor, Bloodboil, and Gorefiend, all while being under the tanks on threat according to Omen. (Not just under the 130% threshold, but actually below the tank.) This is especially odd on a fight like Azgalor where the boss has no aggro altering mechanics as far as I know. In the past I'd always advocated wisdom over salvation, but now I'm questioning the decision. Has anyone else seen this odd behavior or developed a logical explanation for it?

 

Ragnar

I think it has to do with FD. Either Omen misses that FD was resisted (possible bug in Omen), or FD went through but failed to reset aggro (possible bug in the game). I've only had it happen to me 3 times, twice on Gorefiend, and once on IC. Both times on Gorefiend were some time after my first FD, when I pulled while being around 60-80% of a tank's threat.

Largely, it's the fact that all of them have a chance to resist, so I have had up to 14 resists in a row. What are the chances of that happening? If I have 2-3 resists at the start, I'm threat capped till an FD goes through, and then I'm good to go for the rest of the fight. That may be compounded by having a druid tank him, since he can't spell reflect (maybe that's a huge threat boost), and spends a ton of time running around due to the AoEs. Likewise, I don't swap to stam gear and our Gathios tank is good enough to pull him sufficiently out of the AoE such that 2 piece T5 plus an occasional mend pet keeps my pet up, so I end up averaging 1400+ DPS.

I assume you're having a problem for Phase 3, with trinkets / cooldowns up. There, our MT is banging away at Illidan as he's transitioning, I MD him right as he comes out. I burn till ~ 80% threat, FD, pop trinket / cooldown and burn till I cap, at which point Parasites are spawning so I swap off to them, and go back to burning till the transition again. That seems to work really well for me, I averaged 1050 DPS on our last kill: Wow Web Stats

Weird, I usually don't have a problem there. Our tank taunts on the pull, and I MD while taunt is up to give him extra threat. After that, I just play like regular, FD when I hit 80% of the tank's threat, and go from there. We've had a druid and a warrior tank him, and neither really posed a problem. I end up 3rd-4th in damage done, once you count the pet in: Essence of Anger - WWS (longest phase 3 ever).

It's kind of ironic, and oddly amusing. that we have threat issues on opposite fights.

 

alienangel

By my understanding it is quite a large threat boost - it hits for several thousand damager, is cast often, and the reflect gains all the warrior's threat modifiers. Not enough to make aggro no concern for warlocks/mages/shamans, but enough for me to never have had to worry while still being at or near top damage. I usually have a shadow priest and multiple heroisms, so the pet stays alive quite easily too.

Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding, I didn't mean that I'd given up trying to DPS Illidan because of threat, I mean I've given up trying to DPS because the way we do the fight is somewhat awkward for me to DPS as BM - P1 is straight tank & spank, P2 is mediocre dps because of Omen being wonky, past aggro pulls on flames, and pet rarely being usable. Human phase we try to spread out and give healers priority on spots, so it's a pain finding a spot where I'm actually in range to DPS at all, and by the time I do it's time to run out and trap or kill parasites or run away for demon phase.

So while I can do decent dps during the fight, I think I'm generally more useful focussing on parasites (and we have frequent wipes to people forgetting parasites, so it's useful if I make it my top priority). This is definitely a fight I'd prefer to be MM for. On the plus side I could do the fight exactly the same without Wisdom/Salve/Spriest or shaman.

 

Arrus

sry nvm about this post

 

rodstewart

Ok I dont understand how the reset =# works, I dont understand how to figure it out.

Also, When using my BM/KC macro I keep having KC freeze and stay highlighted messing up any other use of my hotkeys or even mouse clicking, can anyone offer a fix?

 

Teldra

This has been an issue since 2.3 Theres nothing to do about it except remove KC from your macro. Hopefully Blizzard will fix this soon.

 

Kabuto

The explanation is you never learned to play without a threat meter?

Of those 4 encounters the only one where salvation is really beneficial is Gorefiend.

 

EPO

I have faced the exact same problems unfortunatly, pulling aggro on BB, Council and Teron. In all those encounter I was not even near the tanks threat on Omen.
I must have something to do with the bosses not registering my FD, I use the FDresistbell and I never had those warnings during the fight FD being resisted. I must admit I'm a dps whore giving 101% and during those pulls nr1 on the dps chart.
But still, it's annoying like hell but only solution is now for me FD more, not just FDÃ*ng when your high on Omen, suffers a bit of the dps but better that then pulling aggro and possible wiping the raid.

 

gibbie99

I've also had problems with pulling aggro while being way behind everyone in threat according to Omen (no salv buff). This was during Prince in Kara. It happened 3x in a row. I'm not sure if the FD resisted or what. (I since installed the FD resist bell). Since then the guild made it mandatory for all dps to have salv no matter what. Makes me a sad panda

 

Esau

On RoS we use Might, Kings and we drop Wisdom for Salv as you don't have time to go OOM on that fight.

 

Hamurabi

EDIT: Sorry, I'll post in the Help Me thread.

 

Taicho

Moved to ' Help Me ' Thread.

 

Cranch

You can use Tuskbreaker from ZA when it drops as an excellent upgrade -- the crossbow is only a bit better (~10 or so dps for my gear.) So go with the legs and gloves.

By the way, you're posting in the wrong thread. Questions like yours should be in the Help Me thread.

 

Taicho

Awsome, im still refreshing here though for more opinions, the Anvil is still at 99% and wudnt ya know it 99% of the server is sittin on the NPC ..... * sigh *

* Edit * My apologies - Ill Move it there

 

barn

I had the same problem, pulling aggro from a mob, even if i wasn't near to the aggro of the tanks and had no FD resist messages. I did some testing with my pet. I just sent it on a mob, let it hit once and put my pet on stay. then i shot once and ofcourse got the aggro. 90% of the time the mob wouldn't return to my pet, if i did something immediately after pressing FD. Moving, Jumping or something else. If i did let the FD animation finish, the mob always returned to my pet.

You can even test it without a pet. Just aggro a mob, FD and immediately jump or move. The mob will follow you 90% of the time.

To me it looks like FD has a invisible cast time.

 

Manito

I've been having issues with Omen correctly registering all Feign Deaths...don't know why, sometimes it has issues, sometimes it doesn't. New version of Omen every couple of hours most days anyways, so who knows.

 

Khassandra

I don't think its just an issue with Omen. Since 2.4, I've been having problems with FD in general. I also use a feign resist mod. Many times while raiding now, though, I won't get any sort of message that FD was resisted, but the mob/boss will continue attacking me as though it was. Omen will also show me having dropped off the threat list, then I die from being hit.

 

KraxisSingular

Yup noticed the same thing. Hidden resists I call them. I think they are an extention of the previous change that required a more complete FD animation before the spell was actually cast. But then again at times I hit FD and nothing happens but the CD is up... Then I can stand there looking fairly stupid, doing nothing but autoshooting for 30 secs.
Anyway, these hidden resists didn't happen beofre unless I got too eager and didn't let FD finish, now I experienced once where I hit FD and my computer hung up for a few seconds during the animation, I came back, found myself lying the ground, jumped up and drew aggro (not at once but well before CD was finished, and way way before Omen said I should). Grrrrr

 

Glaurong

This kind of post really isn't helpful or witty. The fact of the matter is if you want to push your maximum DPS these days, you need a functioning threat meter. Feigning on every cool is a 5-10% dps loss, depending on how bad it jacks up your rotation. Feign resets your auto shot timer and your next one fires at your weapons unhasted speed, you also have to stay down for a second or two to be sure your threat actually clears. ~3 seconds of lost DPS time every 30 seconds, easy math.

I would actually prefer salvation to wisdom if I have a shaman and there is a ret paladin in the raid. Only drawback is MD threat and on average that is only a ~300 threat difference.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

Kabuto

It's always been the case that you do indeed benefit from a threat meter to push 'maximum' dps.

The problem is there is a culture of blaming third party addons when things go wrong. As it stands now people need to not trust third party mods as gospel and pay a little more attention. Try a few farm raids without your threat meter, it can certainly restore some of the perspective you may have lost from watching Omen bars.

Of course if Blizzard fixed FD back to it's old instant behaviour we'd all be much happier.

 

alienangel

I tried Firemaw without Omen a couple of weeks back.

Doing fights with pug tanks that you were used to doing without a threat meter, back when you did 20% of your current DPS is not a great idea apparently :S

 

Aiyakido

He i was wondering something and i cnat really find a good anwser to my question.


Since haste entered the room we are all being happy and jumpy about it. But what is the attack speed you should be aiming for (cuss at a certain point getting more haste isnt gonna affect your shotrotation anymore) to get a 1:1 or 3:2 rotation. I would like to know this without calculating a IaotH proc and not taking in regards the stats loss you wil get from stakking this much haste.

 

Glaurong

You can't find a good answer because you haven't looked enough yet. There is a ton of information about shot rotations, macros, weapon speed, spec, haste, etc. in the hunter threads. Cheeky's spreadsheet takes all of this information and gives you the tools to compare rotations and gear.

I've seen so much of this lately and it is really annoying. People jump in at the end of a thread, ask a question that has been asked 50 times in 5 different threads and pretend like they looked for an answer before posting.

WTB the old, uncluttered EJ forums.

Sorry, I'm grumpy this morning, I guess I need more coffee.

Log Parser for BM Hunters (Right click, save as) - Updated 10/11/2007

 

• Eliirion

For everyone talking about feign not dropping threat and how if you move immediately it's not getting reset... well duh. Feign isn't an aggro drop (like soulshatter, for example), feign is a combat drop (essentially removing yourself from all aggro/combat/etc. lists). If you feign and move quickly enough, your client won't even register that you dropped combat and thus you won't reset your threat. This is especially the case with lots of other things going on (lots of AE / spell casts /adds / etc.). If you are having issues dropping threat, simply stay down for an extra second and take the DPS hit.

[W:From] [Daorchuntard]: your my hero
[W:From] [Daorchuntard]: sick mount lol

 

KraxisSingular

Please don't patronize us like that. I know how to FD thank you, and I know when I have not done it properly (and of course it happens now and then that I move, but I know when that happens). You quickly learn how to use it when solo grinding and getting multiple aggros.
When you are lying on the groud for several seconds and still manage to grab aggro within the next CD, then something is off. Be it the resist notofication or something on the Blizzard side of things. I don't know what it is. But regardless, it is important that we actually mention this so those who care knows it.