Arnier

While going through this thread, I saw some info that I knew already and some that was a little new.

Im a 41/20 BM spec (wow, I know). Currently our guild is starting to use WWS more and I am trying to figure out why some of the other hunters are doing a little better. Ive been using a 1:1 rotation macro with KC in it. My armory is updated and I'm starting to wonder if at my gear lvl and such if I should be using the wolf slayer instead of the Steam Pistol.

Also, as BM, should I try and socket my pants with all 10 Agi vs going for the combination of 10 agi / 5agi 5 hit / 5 agi 7 stam?

This is the most serious I have begun to consider the actual WWS and geming so would like to get some actual input from a source that is known to be more inteligent.
Also as a note I normally am in a caster group for the FI buff. I understand this will make a difference, but is it going to make up the difference?

Armory:
The World of Warcraft Armory

WWS Link:
Wow Web Stats

 

turbo_012

Recently I've been working cheeky's spreadsheet to get the best gem upgrades I can get. With my current gear I found out the gems gives me the best dps. I tested by just swapping out gems with a gem bonus that doesn't help the dps (+4 resilience rating). Of all the dps gems I can think of I only picked gems that had crit, ap, agi. Also 1:1 shots were used in BM spec with ravager as pet. The left column is the "dps valus" that i made up.

Here are the results.

Red gems
82.37 - Crimson sun
81.50 - Bright crimson spinel
81.43 - Delicate crimson spinel

Yellow gems
81.71 - Stone of blades
80.95 - Smooth lionseye

Blue gems
none

Orange gems
81.23 - Wicked pyrestone
79.32 - Pristine fire opal
79.29 - Glinting pyrestone
78.89 - Empowered fire opal

Green gems
79.05 - Jagged seaspray emerald
79.05 - Sundered chrysoprase

Purple gems
79.32 - Balanced shadowsong amethyst
79.32 - Infused shadowsong amethyst
79.29 - Shifting shadowsong amethyst

Meta gems
85.92 - Relentless earthstorm diamond
79.76 - Swift skyfire diamond
79.76 - Potent unstable diamond
79.09 - Enigmatic skyfire diamond
74.54 - Thundering skyfire diamon

*These meta gems tests were different I had to find a setup so that ALL the gems met the requirements, but the ranking is correct it's just that you can't compare the dps values to the other gems.

With these ranking in mind, and knowing later there are some BOP gems, here's is the priority setup for my gear.
Meta - Relentless earthstorm diamond
2 "blue" - Infused shadowsong amethyst
2 "yellow" - Wicked pyrestone
the rest reds - Bright crimson spinel

Later on, I head on over the best dps on cheeky's spreadsheet post to study more. On his sheet it has all agility related gems only. Now I'm wondering why the gems list is different. I see that some gear setups have agility outperforming then attack power, while other gear setup favors attack power over agility. Can someone answer what's the real deal?
Is it the pet? Is there a cut line for attack power? Is there a cut line for crit %? I'm gonna try to find a way to test this and see what I can do.

 

turbo_012

So castsequence is the problem? I read that /cast won't cause the this lag, is this true? Also what if you were using 1:1 rotation?

 

turbo_012

Whew~

Trying to figure out the cutline of stats wasn't very clear. Also this is of course 1 scenario, hoping it will be a model to help others. Anyways the point of this test is to find out what stats are the best with your current gear. Tests were made assuming you're BM (duh) spec, 1:1 rotaion, and ravager as a pet. By the way 1:1 rotation was used with the quick shots method.

After some testing here's what I came up with.

Assuming the only stats that effect hunter's dps are Agi, AP, and CR, I used cheeky's spreadsheet to make a custom item and change the stats from there.

The zero points stats were:
Agi - 484
AP - 1640
CR - 268
Crit % - 27.11% (against a 73), 27.71% (against a 70)

Let's start with the stat Agi.

CR AP AGI STAT(AP-favored)
0 56 -140 -1
0 56 -137 -1
0 56 -136 0
0 56 -135 0
0 56 -130 0
0 56 -129 0
0 56 -128 0
0 56 -127 0
0 56 -126 0 X
0 56 -125 1
0 56 -100 1
0 56 -50 1
0 56 0 1
0 56 50 1

At the zero point position it became clear that AP is needed. Here it shows that more then 125 Agi points needed to be reduced for Agi to be favored.

Next CR.

CR AP AGI STAT(AP-favored)
-50 56 0 -1
-40 56 0 0
-37 56 0 0 X
-36 56 0 1
-35 56 0 1
-30 56 0 1
-20 56 0 1
-10 56 0 1
10 56 0 1
20 56 0 1
30 56 0 1

Same here at the zero point, the AP stat is needed. I would have to kill my CR more then 36 points in order for Agi to be favored.

Next AP.

CR AP AGI STAT
0 56 0 1
0 156 0 1
0 181 0 1
0 186 0 1
0 191 0 1
0 196 0 1
0 197 0 0 X
0 198 0 0
0 199 0 0
0 200 0 0
0 201 0 0
0 206 0 0
0 256 0 -1

Now we see something different. As AP goes up we start to see that we need Agi. After I get to and gain 141 AP, Agi is needed.

As I've tested 1780 seems to be the cutline to reach for AP. Anything after that Agi is worth more. This is of course my test and I'm assuming the hunter class follow the stats by formula, whether it be agi, AP, CR, it should all be related. It'll help if anyone else can confirm this or any type of input thanks.

 

Mity

Arnier: i see u say u use a 1:1 macro as BM. there is no valid reason to do this, and it will hurt yoyr dps quite a bit, as its not giving you optimal dps unless you are proccing QS or DST or using RF.
go find the macro refferred to as the 3:2 macro, and loose the 1:1 for good, and your dps will go up alot.

 

• Tsook

Re: the Feign resist discussion.

I've always figured that Feign was originally designed not as a threat drop, but as a combat drop. By virtue of getting you out of combat, it wipes your threat. This is definitely how it works for trash and out in the world.

So enter the 2-second combat pulse during bosses to prevent rezzes and feign/cables that happened in.. what, 1.8? 1.9? I don't remember the exact patch, but it was a while ago. I remember being sad that I couldn't feign/cables people on Razorgore phase 2 any more.

I figure the feigns that don't register as a resist but also don't wipe your threat are the ones that happen RIGHT as the 2-second combat pulse happens, and you never quite drop combat. Staying down longer reduces the chance that the time you're feigned is the time the combat pulse is happening and being processed, because the instant you shoot to end the feign you put yourself back in combat. This also helps explain why people notice using hunter's mark or a trinket to get up from feign rather than shooting is more reliable -- neither of those actions put you in combat by themselves.

Of course this is complicated by the change to prevent feign/drink in 2.1. Now you never *visibly* drop combat on raid bosses -- but the combat pulse is definitely still happening. If you're in a different room when a boss is engaged you're put in combat at most 2 seconds later.

It also sort of meshes what happens when you get a real resist. Ever notice how when you have a large number of mobs on you and you get a resisted feign, often substantially more than one of the mobs continues hitting you? The chance of getting at least one resist climbs fast with the number of mobs, but the chance of getting 5 resists out of 15 (or whatever) is very low. My theory is that the instantaneous out-of-combat that happens when you feign is enough for all the mobs to leave you alone -- except the one who resisted and any who are linked to him, who all maintain you on their threat and combat lists. It may also have something to do with how social they are, which in some manner communicates their combat list to eachother. I see it very often when, for example, soloing a lower level instance -- when you have 40 mobs on you and you get a resisted feign, very rarely is it just a single mob left whaling away on your "corpse." Some of them reset but some of them don't -- combat never dropped and they maintain your current threat.

 

Aerevyn

I've also been thinking about Feign Death mechanics and issues and have tested a theory of mine and it seems to have come good in testing.

Now of course FD should have 2 outcomes, resist or succeed.
As we should know by now it actually has 4, the other 2 being [No resist and apparent success (the most dangerous kind as you think you're ok)] and [No resist but failure to clear threat]
For simplicity's sake, lets call these 4 oucomes, a b c and d
a Succeed
b Resist
c No resist, apparent (false) success
d No resist, fails to clear threat

I believe I can reliably reproduce a, b (well, as reliable as anyone can) and d.
d occurs when you hit FD during the global cooldown of another ability. The animation and FD cooldown both run but feign death does not appear in the combat log as having cast at all. Is there some issue with the spell perhaps, that it should be reporting that it cannot be cast yet (while gcd is ticking) but isn't?

I cannot reproduce c and haven't seen it happen in a while, it might have been fixed but I doubt it (as Devs seem about as willing to touch FD as they would touch a cadaver).

"There are 10 kinds of people in this world, those who know Binary and those who don't."

 

• Eliirion

I'm pretty sure that was just to prevent feigned gear swaps (which sucks in some ways*). If I recall correctly, last time I did Illidan I was able to drop combat and drink relatively easily at the beginnings of Phases 2 and 3.



* The best use of feign gear swaps was many ages ago when our Illidan Warlock tank DC'd and I was able to swap into Shadow Gear, pick up Illidan, and tank him for 2 Demon phases until he died, saving us from a wipe. Also, swapping out a Riding Crop mid fight...

 

Wunlastri

So BBotB, Viper Sting, Aspect of the Viper. Are these things linked? With all of the stated buffs Blizzard has been giving aspect of the viper would this translate to the shots as spell dmg on a wand translates to spells? More than that. are these effects boosted by TotH? I don't think efficiency would help as it only lessens the amount of mana used.

 

Lancerx

Hi,

New to forum and been loving the amount of information available. I did allot of research and decided to post in hopes someone could help me with a situation im in. I run five accounts at once and currently play five hunters. I am having a hard time trying to figure out if it would be better dps in the long run having five BM hunters or 4 BM and 1Marks. I know the trueshot should add about 34dps give or take, but I know also that I would then be losing ferocious inspiration which is up about 97% of the time and also serpents swiftness. I thought about maybe going 3 BM, 1 Marks and 1 Surv but quickly decided that expose armor could not compare to the dps I would lose in BM. I am really thinking that 5xbm would be better dps but I am really not sure. I would love to hear some thought and opinions on the matter I as regard this community's opinions in high regard. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

alienangel

AFAIK all those things do exactly what their tooltips state, nothing more. Wrapping my head around how they could get linked makes it hurt >.>

Spell damage on a wand translates to spells the same way AP on a bow translates to shots, it's an item with a stat on it. The spelldamage does nothing for the wand itself, and has nothing to do with the fact that it happens to be on a weapon slot.

 

Gearknight

The best DPS would be 4xBM, 1xSurv. However, while multi-boxing, having some BM and some not means your hunters should be using different shot rotations, as well as different sequences of trinket/rapid fire/etc pops, which will probably be next to impossible to properly monitor across the different hunters. So I would suggest simply 5xBM.

I sure hope you're going to have at least 4 leatherworkers among the bunch!

 

Seoman

Apologies in advance if there is an answer here somewhere - please just bonk me on the head and link it.

Is a pet's crit% impacted at all by a Hunter's Agility or +crit? On Petopia, for example, they list the following as the percentage of the Hunter's stat given to the pet:

30% Stam
35% Armor
22% RAP (to pet's MAP)
12.5% RAP (to pet's "spell damage")
40% resistances

Is this current information?

 

jimbo7918

I was wondering what is a level 70 hunter pet's innate dodge, parry, etc. (general avoidance) levels against a level 70 mob.

Also, would somebody know how much agility would equate to 1% dodge for a hunter pet?

 

KraxisSingular

Yes it is current. Or rather I know that the RAP to PAP and spell damage are as well as our Agi doesn't provide any pet crit whatsoever. Pet crit can only be granted externally or through talents.

I would venture a guess that our pets have 5% - the loss from fighting a 3 level higher mob. And our pet gains 1% dodge for every 30 Agi since it is a warrior (and scales with Agi/crit as a Warrior too).

 

muffpox

I have been reading through the FD Resist posts on this thread and do completely appreciate all points provided on this subject. I originally posted in the "Please help Me" Hunter Forum and was directed here.

The mention of macro spamming and how it could interfere with the feign mechanics as an interrupt is something that I do believe will assist another fellow with his BM aggro-mangement.

Along this line, but perhaps misguided on my part, is how threat per second could affect the chance to resist. The source of my rational is noticing my own resist increase (or so this is what I have come to believe) as higher-end content has become more accessible, doubly through a recent merger and of course the elimination of BC attunments and the guild dropping badges on new gears and epic gems .

I have become to adopt a policy of lowering my dps (and thus my threat) before a feign, letting the animation complete and ending the feign by refreshing my Hunter's Mark.

I have come to read on this thread that some encounters are inherently buggy for feign death.

I wish to express my appreciation of any and all time and thought that people have put behind this subject and look forward to following the conversation's progression. Has anyone else has noted any correlation between high levels of threat generation and increased resists or does anyone have the data to support the groundlessness of my perceived relationship between successful feign and lower levels of threat, relative to massive amounts of threat generation. I suppose on this note I should also ask if anyone has tested whether Salvation makes FD more successful, not that I have seen any reason to show this to be true.

 

Gearknight

I'm very skeptical of a dependence on TPS or DPS, because those quantities are not something that is inherent to the game engine. Threat and damage both come in discrete packets in-game, and only analysis performed by 3rd party utilities (or human brains) turns those damage quantities into an instantaneous damage rate.

A more well-formed way to ask the question would be to look at the number of attacks or total damage done in a small interval before feigning death. Also, having a shot midair at the time of the feign could conceivably matter.

 

Hacker

I can't seem to make a thread, so I'll ask here.

I now have my 4 peice T4 set and the S3 gloves, all this to Multi Shot is making me want to try a MM spec for raiding. Can someone link me a good MM raid spec and shot rotation, thanks.

 

Korikin

A note from my personal experience. While testing on Dr. Boom if I FD while an arrow/shot is in flight and FD completes before the dmg is registered I am pulled back into combat. However, I have never seen this happen where my threat was not cleared by the threat meter prior to re-engaging in combat. Perhaps this is a limitation of the threat meter; inherent in it's programing of FD. I doubt that a shot mid-air has much to do with FD resists; just might seem that way if there is a shot in flight.

Generally, I would suspect that FD resist is handled by the game just like any other spell is. With a base chance to resist modified by difference in level and spell hit.

 

Melkunie

FD resists being related to TPS/DPS can easily been proven wrong within Sunwell Plateau, the times i get a resist at brutallus while im going all out are countable on 1 hand while on twins where the first FD is a resist, i slow down for 30 secs i still get a second resist. It's all based on the mob(s) you are fighting, the more mobs equals more chances on resists. like on M'uru i ripped on a void sentinel, hit FD and the mob ran back to the tank while i still had a resist(most likely on another mob nearby who has me on his agro list).

Secondly, FDing while a arrows flies always freaks me out, specialy when it crits..

 

muffpox

Melkunie wrote:
Your point is a valid one regarding multiple mobiles and how the resist chance is "randomized" separately for each one individually. I do think that your proof is more of a strawman argument in that it does not offer any real point toward the possible affect TPS might or might not have on feigning to clear threat on the focus target. I will say that I am offering little in support of my allegation, but I do like how things that I have overlooked have been made clearer to me.

Gearknight wrote:
Thank you again Gearknight for helping me get a grasp on what is in question and better applying my meaning and (mis)understanding(s).

 

KayossZero

Here's where you want to look http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t19497-m...raft_strategy/ I'm a fan of 15/43/3 or 7/48/6 my self, as far as rotation goes as MM you spam Multi/Arcane as they come up and weave Steady's as much as you can, use Silencing Shot when appropriate.

 

Gearknight

I would agree, with the possible exception that the distance to the mob may play a part in resist chance. This seems to be the most likely factor outside of level to me. Completely WAG/opinion here.

 

lamrith

I am wondering if it would be of interest to put a section relating to trades and affect on class? IE JC over say LW for a hunter. Each obviously has benefits from a gameplay standpoint, but does one offer a BOP benefit over another etc...

EX: things like Drums of War etc are a huge boost to raid dps, but are LW only..

 

Ruind

LWing would currently top the list. Drums alone being as versatile as they are affect your entire party regardless of class make up. As a JC you get very few gems that would make that large of an impact over a non JC, even the shadowsong panther only has an effective AP of about 130ish that’s assuming that your not "saving" the buff as well, using it every CD regardless of other CDs. Alchy is pretty lol right now, the assassins stone is decent sometimes when I know that mana is going to be an issue for a fight our shaman is often rotated out for his mana tide. Enchanting, sure you get the ring enchants but once you have end game rings you can level enchanting and drop it for something like LWing after you enchant your rings. Blacksmithing provides you with a couple weapons early on that are decent but can be easily replaced. Tailoring really gives you nothing. Engineering gives you some toys, but for the most part that’s all they will add up to. The most beneficial thing I see coming from engineering would be the 4 min Battle Chicken buff (you can summon the chicken before a fight and *hope* that it uses battle squawk - 4min 5% increased attack speed. equipping your normal trinket before the fight starts.)