Actually all casters use a two roll system. Without knowing, might it not be prudent to rate hit a little more highly than crit, since in a two roll system (using a reasonable base crit value) hit blows crit away on a per rating point basis?

Actually, it is quite possible.
Head: 140 - [Coif of the Jungle Stalker]
Neck: 175 - [Choker of Serrated Blades]
Shoulder: 126 - [Gronnstalker's Spaulders]
Back: 112 - [Dory's Embrace]
Chest: 210 - [Shadowtooth Trollskin Cuirass]
Wrist: 105 - [Steadying Bracers]
Hands: 140 - [Gronnstalker's Gloves]
Waist: 77 - [Bladeangel's Money Belt]
Legs: 175 - [Shifting Camouflage Pants]
Boots: 105 - [Shadowhunter's Treads]
Finger: 126 - [Stormrage Signet Ring]
Finger: 126 - [Signet of Primal Wrath]
Trinket: no passive available, but consider [Madness of the Betrayer], [Icon of Unyielding Courage], and [Badge of the Swarmguard]
Mainhand: 140 - [Dagger of Bad Mojo]
Offhand: 210 - [Boundless Agony]
Ranged: 126 - [Item not found!]

2093 Passive Penetration. Of course, the actual dps of someone wearing this gear would likely be awful. But I like to feel out the edges of the optimization space before diving in.

Ah well, obviously I didn't do my homework but I meant with usual gear we get. Like t6 or best of the best BT/hyjal gear, like you said if someone got these then the dps would drop instead of rise on other bosses, but once you get the armor of a boss to 0, then this gear would do more damage than the best pieces out there because the last 800 armor or so gets the boss mitigation from 10% to 0.

Sienna, you're right, I mixed up damage through GFTT per shot and per 100 shots.

As fas as I know this is not true.
100% critchance and 9% misschance with 100 shots would be 91 crits and 9 misses.

Why? You can just get 40% critchance, 5% misschance and shoot a few thousand times at a lvl 70 mob...
With a 2-roll-system you should have 38% crit, with a one-roll-system 40%. The differenz should be big enough to get a reliable conclusion.

This is going off topic a bit, but what if you have a lvl 1 toon hitting a lvl 72 mob?

What are the chances of the lvl 1 toon hitting that mob? If we can reduce characters chance to hit a mob to zero, and up his chance to crit as high as possible, then all hits the person lands against the mob should be crits. Nothing else should land. I've been terribly busy at work lately and I don't have time to setup a test like this myself, but maybe somebody else would be interested in trying?

As for casters, I've been told they have a 2 roll system before. I've got no reason to disbelieve this.

What would be the crit chance of a lvl 1 char against a lvl 72 mob? The defense difference is 355 so no chance to crit at all.

We have no idea about what kind of crit chance should have at such extreme level differences. Basing tests on this doesn't seem like the best approach.

Note that I use the term 1-roll system to describe a system where hit/crit/miss is determined in 1 roll, whereas a 2-roll system is where you first have a hit/miss check, then a hit/crit check if the outcome of the first roll was hit.

Ideally, you'd have something like the following:
1. Level 70 Hunter, 36% crit minimum. Preferably more, and with as little +hit as possible.
2. While fighting the Banshee in Mount Hyjal, get afflicted by Banshee Curse.
3. With Banshee Curse active, shoot at level 70 target (i.e. the trash mobs):
3a - With Auto Shot
3b - With specials

If, in step 3, we see a HIT occur, this is proof of a 2-roll system, as this would not be possible under a 1-roll system.
With an appropiate sample size, if we do not see any HIT occur, only CRIT, we can say with backing in statistics that Hunter attacks are on a Note that there is a chance that this might differ between auto attacks and special attacks, which is why I listed both.

The test could also be performed on Kurinnaxx in AQ20, with the Hunter having more than 30% crit.

The tooltip for Aspect of the Viper states "...regenerating mana equal to up to 50% of his Intellect every 5 sec. The lower the hunter's current mana, the more mana will be regenerated."

Is it known how effective AotV is at different percentages of mana remaining? Through some quick testing myself I found that I go from 5% to 50% in 1:18 and 50% to 95% in 1:51, so there's definitely a difference there. I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find any data because knowing what % AotV becomes most effective at could be a huge boon to those of us that use it for raiding or even grinding.

It becomes most effective when your mana is lowest. 50% of your intellect exactly at 0 mana. Around 25% of your intellect at 65% mana I think and 10% of your intellect at 90% mana. We tried to model it with a function but the only thing we found out was that it wasn't linear.

I could be mistaken but im fairly sure their was a blue post or two stipulating that the % of int would never drop below 25%.

No it does.

Are there plans to update the OP of this thread any time soon? If not, is there another consolidated hunter resource somewhere? I'm bringing up a hunter alt and I have lots of questions, but can't seem to find the answers to all of them with searches. For example, what is the untalented and talented in-combat focus regeneration rate of pets (before Go for the Throat)? Exactly which shots are affected by ammo, which aren't, and how is the bonus calculated? Has someone formulated an uptime calculation for Imp AotH based on weapon speed and shot rotation? Is there a hunter spreadsheet somewhere out there?

Hunter spreadsheet thread http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t9816-hu...-_development/ with the download links for Excel and Open Office on the first post. I believe Improved Aspect of the Hawk calculations are already in the spreadsheet
While Lactose may not have had the time to post all of his work on these forums yet, there is a list of hunter abilities and their respective formulas here: HunterGuide Theorycraft. All in all, the only important ability that doesn't use arrow dps is Steady Shot
Base focus regeneration is 24.5 focus/4seconds. HunterGuide Theorycraft

On a somewhat related note, these links to the hunter wiki should probably make their way to the first post, somehow

It is not linear. If it was linear it turns out to be negative at some point, we calculated. But it's very close to linear so it doesn't matter really. You'd be off by 5 mp5 or so if you take it to be linear so it's an ok approximation.

Ah yes that I forgot, hit comes before crit so yes with 9% miss and 100% crit you'd do 91 crits and 9 misses.

This probably isn't the best place to ask this question but I cant find the answers I need through search and I can't start a new thread. Please forgive my inability to find the blatantly obvious, assuming these questions have been answered already.
Is there any place I can check out to mark my progression? I'm trying to gauge where I should be at stat wise going into Kara up and I cant find any info on that. Is there a bench mark thread for hunters anywhere? I'm not looking for exact gear layouts or anything I just need something that gives round about crit/hit/atk stats needed for someone going into each new progression phase in WoW.
Thanks in advance.

P.S. I just hit 70 and I'm starting to gear up for Kara atm so I really need a progression guide that starts at the level 70 non heroic level and goes up. Again I'm sure this has been answered somewhere I just can't seem to find it.

Just some advice gearwise:

-> get Stalker's Helm of Second Sight, socket 3x 6 (8?) agility
-> get Dungeon 3 Shoulders (Beast Tamer), awesome shoulders they are better than many epic ones
-> get Dungeon 3 Gloves - awesome as well
-> never ever socket pure crit gems - your AP ist really low, you only got twice as much as my lvl 39 PVP Alt. Go for gems with agility, regardless of specc
-> Quite expensive for fresh-70ies: farm the mats and get a leatherworker to craft the Felstalker set for you. You won't get the setbonus, but the set is quite good dps-wise. The bracers especially are really good.

Isn't that just a 2-roll system? First a roll of 1-100 to see if your shot hits. 91% do hit, so then you see if those crit. 100% crit chance on those 91 hits equates to 91 crits. Correct me if I'm missing something important, but doesn't that go against the theories and possible tests suggested by others here? Unless there is a hierarchy of stats where a Miss chance will always outweigh a Crit chance that I'm unaware of.

There is a hierachy.
Miss > Parry > Dodge > Block > Hit > Crush > Crit
(I'm not sure about the first part, wheather Miss or Parry comes first.)

Never say never. Crit gems should be used in yellow slots when you are hit capped.

I have some ideas for the items I need now. I came from a game where the stat caps where much lower and didn't effect performance near as much as they do in this so I was a little wrong headed in my gear needs. Beast Lord shoulders, legs and a Choker of bloodied feathers are next on the quest/farm list and a felstalker bracer should be in tomorrow. At that point I think I'll be ready for Kara. Thanks again for the info folks.

you could also think of adding 2 more pieces of the D3 set to get the armor pierce bonus. quite easy to farm while getting your reputation pushed and worth about 200-300 AP (depending on boss and debuffs).

my2ct