Hate Monkey

How about having more casts on Teron in a shorter time span than the week before, higher avg damage by 100, for a 4300 avg hit, then having a 25% crit rate for a total of 1750dps, barely making the top 10. The 2 other mages in the raid beat me, both had 42% crit rates, made me a sad mage.

If you need the hit from Mana Attuned Band, use it, else use Ring of Ancient Knowledge.

 

◊ manly

Personally I find it somewhat amusing that people get pissed about low crit rate, yet you can be just as equally fucked by the min/max of fireball damage, even if you get high crit rate. There is no win with the RNG.

(don't read me wrong, I would be fairly pissed too if I had low crit rate on teron)

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

galzohar

Isn't the DPS variance from crit a much much bigger factor than the DPS variance from all other factors?

 

graver

the only bigger factor on Teron i believe is getting a nasty debuff

 

◊ manly

I admit, its been a long time since i checked the variance in the damage. Although thinking back about it, I doubt I get much more than 500-600 variance on a non-crit fireball, and on crit I don't really check. It would indeed seem like I grossly overestimated there.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

galzohar

I mean that the variance in your DPS that is a result of sometimes doing X dmg and sometimes doing 2.1X dmg should be quite bigger than the variance that is caused by stuff like min-max dmg range on base fireball and/or partial resists and/or misses.

 

Carisana

Ouch that does suck I've had that happen on Rage before having a 26% crit rate and doing a whopping 1650dps. Then the very next day, cause it was a Monday/Tuesday had a 66% crit rate and did a ton of dps so yea GG RnG it does suck or can be awesome.

As for the rings, I still don't have Ring of Ancient Knowledge always passed to SP's, Boomkin, Ele Shammy's and another mage. I'll get one eventually I hope, haven't seen one in like 3 weeks now.

 

Vulkaire

The worst RNG i ever had on Teron was a few weeks ago. I ended up with a 7% miss rate on fireball and a 25% miss rate on scorch. I was wearing 167 hit rating at the time. Also had no SP in the raid at all so was lacking misery.

WWS

 

◊ Vontre

RNG is a big reason why I prefer to rely on theorycraft over "testing".

www.magegraf.com

Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.

"We agree with Communism." - Greg Street 2009

 

Leonina

So, after seeing the new patchnotes and the new spellhaste gems, how will those stack up against Veiled Noble Topaz?
Dawnstones (pure haste rating) , Talasite(haste + stam), and noble Topaz (haste + spelldmg). Or versus the 9spelldmg gem ?

 

LiquidHAL

depends what the numbers are, i haven't seen the actual stats on them anywhere yet. personally i'd only replace my gems if the haste is greater than or equal to the equivalent +dmg gem.

 

Akuman

Sorry for not having an exact reference, but I believe it was discussed that 1 haste rating is worth slightly more than +1dmg.

So for that reason, it would seem that +4 haste +5dmg gems would be worth more than +9 spell dmg gems. (assuming they come out with something like that)

However, 1 hit rating is still more valuable than 1 haste rating, till the cap.

<@Terror> "It's easy to forget what a sin is in the middle of a battlefield."
<@cky> opposite over hypotenuse

 

Leonina

Quick Dawnstone - +8 Spell Haste Rating
Reckless Noble Topaz - +4 Spell Haste Rating and +5 Spell Damage
Forceful Talasite - +4 Spell Haste Rating and +6 Stamina

@ Spellhit, yeah, ofc, I know this, feel silly now, I meant the 9spelldmg.

 

Pintofbrew

Did anyone notice the ominous "intellect now increases the amount of mana regenerated via spirit"?

Could this herald a significant enough MP5 upgrade to the arcane that 80%+ AB can be sustained?

Could it mean, combined with the haste buff, that TLC/AToL AB spam will see another day?

Hold your breath folks, more to come! (TM)

 

Searix

Well, let's see if we can reach the magic ignite rolling values without cooldowns...
Back: Highborne, 32
Chest: Departed Spirits, 35
Boots: Madness, 25
Rings: Highbornex2, 62
Gloves: Studious, 20
Pants: Arcane An, 45
Neck: Nature's Mercy, 33
Shoulder: Nimble Thought, 38
Waist: Angelista's, 37
Bracers: Nimble, 28
Weapon: Zhardoom, 55
Wand: Carved, 10

Brings it down to 2.31 second fireballs assuming there's +10 spell haste gems, still off the mark :/

Maybe Sunwell will bring the gear required to breach the last 200 haste.

 

Roywyn

The value of damage vs. haste directly depends on your current spell damage. Haste beats damage in endgame gear, but you'd use +12 dmg gems by that. An epic equivalent (that hasn't been announced or datamined, so I assume it does not exist) would be +10 haste, and I'd prefer the 12 damage I think. Similar benefit and I don't increase consumption, and scale better with haste from other sources.

At +950 damage unbuffed, spell damage and haste give the same benefit point for point in vontre's sheet.
So, dmg/haste or haste are not better than pure dmg gems at lower gear levels. They would be better than dmg/crit gems, but if you don't have access to BT gems, you're likely not hit capped from gear alone and dmg/hit gems would be better.


Maybe for a trash/pvp set, or haste/stamina for blue slots if your guild is low on shadowsong amethysts (an longer wait list than for spinels for us).
They are not "power gems" that you'd want to spam in every slot, but are nice to experiment and to fill niches. Or gem your alt/off-set/temporarily when living rubies cost 3 times as much as dawnstones/noble topazes. Or gem for AoE when your damage is capped.

 

Habanero

Healers will be the ones that see the major benefit from Spell Haste gems, and in their case you can't really quantify it in numbers -- it's trading potential sheer healing power for effective reaction time/latency mitigation.

 

inphared

Hey guys read the forums a lot and finally signed up for an account. I know 2.4 just came out on the PTR yesterday but has anyone had a chance to test if the ghost hit from EP is still there on frostbolt?

 

galzohar

I've always been a fan of "theory first, test after". And then always use statistical tools to figure out wether your test falls within the theory or not, considering if you can theorycraft your DPS you can just as well theorycraft the deviation of your DPS and the chance your theory is correct given certain results in the "testing".

"testing" and then ignoring the deviations due to the RNG is just silly, though.

 

Ulthwithian

Yes, hypothesis testing is the crux of everything, but then you need a hypothesis first.

Since I haven't seen it discussed yet (probably waiting for some data), as far as Mages are concerned, how big would the mana regen buff have to be to make Arcane anywhere near comparable? I am curious because I am a diehard Arcane fan, and (from the Mage's standpoint) Arcane mages are the big winners from this change, given their talents.

 

◊ manly

permanent [Drums of Battle] rotation and [Ashtongue Talisman of Insight] would do the trick.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

LiquidHAL

I'd probably also prefer the +12dmg under ideal circumstances, but for socket bonuses it might be worth it to go with the haste gems. Not to mention how much easier it is to get your hands on lionseyes.

 

Vulkaire

Would probably also be a 6dmg/5haste pyrestone, which would be marginally less dps than 12 dmg but would be better to fill yellow socket bonus with.

 

Etherealz

It would be marginally MORE dps than a spinel for an end game gear set.

 

Vulkaire

That would depend how much weight you give haste vs. dmg. Most theorycraft I have seen has put it around 1.1 haste:1 dmg. That would make 6dmg/5haste=11.5 dmg. A 1.2:1 ratio would make it equal and anything higher would put it ahead.

edit- This is mainly due to the rounding up of the 12 dmg involved with the spinels. On the blue gem level 5dmg/4haste is clearly better than 9 dmg.