Now, I haven't tested this myself with Arcane Blast, but Holy Light and Light's Grace are analogous enough. I can tell you that haste will affect the final cast time in that case.

That is: Without Light's Grace, your haste is applied to a 2.5s spell.
With Light's Grace, your haste is applied to a 2.0s spell.

2/19 10:01:23.430 Your Arcane Blast hits Dr. Boom for 1423 Arcane damage.
2/19 10:01:23.690 You are afflicted by Arcane Blast.
2/19 10:01:24.612 Boom Bot is killed by Suicide.
2/19 10:01:24.612 Boom Bot dies.
2/19 10:01:25.733 Your Arcane Blast hits Dr. Boom for 1426 Arcane damage.
2/19 10:01:26.294 You are afflicted by Arcane Blast (2).
2/19 10:01:27.336 Boom Bot dies.

edit to add: so I think this proves that the debuff is being applied in time on the server, but not the client. so a modified quartz that assumed the debuff during ramp up could be useful.

Anyone test the new version of the MSD to see if the hidden cooldown has been decreased?

passive haste cap with bloodlust for AB spam:


1.0049=(1.5/1.3)/(1+x/1570) // yes, we want 1.0049, because if the result is 1.0051, the game tooltip would show 1.1, here, he will show 1, we assume a 1.5 AB without haste.

1.0049=1.1538461538/(1+x/1570)

1+x/1570=1,148219876451541

x/1570=0,148219876451541

x = 232 haste

What would the value of [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] be for a deep fire mage? How does it compare to the other trinkets that are available?

It has a proc rate of 10% with an internal cooldown of 15 seconds. It should benefit from CoS, any generic damage talents a mage has (Playing With Fire), and ISB procs. It can crit, and probably uses the same crit rate as the caster.

According to this, it's worth 44 damage/healing. AM doesn't proc it, nor does the Fireball DoT/Ignite.

I can assure you we do not use the darkmoon faire buff or modify the date on any parse. They usually show only the first 4 bosses because we upload the parse right after the kill then again after we kill illdian.

no worries, I believe you.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind people using world buffs at all. I would somewhat encourage it and use it if I could too. What I really want is world buffs to be removed from raiding, because ultimately it means I get people to link me those and try to compare specs. Then its a real mess to try and establish any kind of comparison.

Please blizzard, remove world buffs from raids.

On a different note, you might want to know there exists another world buff that is even better than darkmoon faire. Unfortunately it is only for horde melee.

Sayge's Dark Fortune of Damage - Spells - World of Warcraft = darkmoon faire buff (+1-10% damage)
Hellscream's Warsong - Spells - World of Warcraft = nagrand grandmother questline buff (+15% melee haste)

This would indeed suggest that it is working correctly. I don't know what would be the cause for different results. You didn't have any passive haste right? This is the old post I was talking about before http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t15980-m...iously_broken/ . I guess at this point the only course of action would be for more people to do the testing to try to figure out what is at the root of the problem.

I scrolled through a couple of logs to check how often the WE casts waterbolt.

The listed cast time is 2.5 seconds.
In the logs, the delay between spell hits are usually 2.7s-3.2s apart.

If we want to model things as close to to reality as we can, we should probably assume a 2.9s cast time on Waterbolt to account for the unavoidable dealy.

What fights did you look at combat log, if you summon it out of range it has to run into position, if the boss moves it runs into position, were these tank and spank fights?

No passive haste equipped (in pvp gear actually).

That post doesn't have any updates since the stopcasting mechanic was changed. It may not have worked back then.

Casting .2 before quartz says i should is dangerous too though. Sometimes i lose count and try to cast it too early after i've fully ramped up.

You are wrong.

I've always calculated effects of haste on my Fireball as on a 3.0s cast time, and the numbers match exactly. Haste is calculated on the actual cast time of the spell, not on the base.

This is far from an "stack-worthy" stat as well though. It's just like saying 80 intelect would give me a 1% DPS increase as 2.3 fire, which is far from useless, however it doesn't mean it's worth stacking.

For current fire specs haste is around 1.1-1.3 spell damage worth, ignoring additional mana consumption (which actually affects fire as well but it's hard to predict as the dps increase depends on what kind of mana restoring abilities yuo're already using as those will affect what kind of dps buffs you would be gaining if you had extra mana). For arcane blast extra mana consumption means even less dps as we are actually taking into account the noticeable dps increase you get from extra mana converted into extra arcane blasts. This means haste for arcane blast specs is at least somewhere under haste for fire spec, which would then mean it's probably under spell damage as well.

Will haste increase your DPS as 2.4 arcane? Yes. Does it make the best use of the itemization value? No, at least based on the calculations I've seen so far which definitely makes sense.

I'm ok with this, but we all know that itemisation is tending to haste, especially in sunwell. Other items have some hit. So with a hit cap of 129 for a 40/0/21, you will have haste, wanting it or not.

Starting on this, I'll personnaly try to limit my haste from 108 to 151, use IV and Bloodlust separatly, and try to keep cycles (just making only AB while AP):
Here are my calculation to justify it:


The cycles will be: 3 frostbolt injected, but 4 while BL or IV:

108 haste:
-normal: AB=1.4 FB=2.34 2.34*3=7.02
-IV: AB=1.17 FB= 1.95 1.95*4=7.8 (tested it on dr boom, not in raid)
-BL: AB=1.08 FB= 1.8 1.8*4=7.2


151 haste :
-normal : AB=1.37 FB=2.28 2.28*3=6.84
-IV : AB=1.14 FB=1.9 1.90*4=7.6
-BL : AB=1.05 FB=1.75 1.75*4=7

Mage updates with latest test realm patch-

# Arcane Fortitude now increases your armor by an amount equal to 100% of your Intellect, up from 50%.
# Blink, Slow, and Spellsteal have all had their mana cost reduced.
# Icy Veins no longer stacks with Bloodlust/Heroism.
# Improved FireWard has become Molten Shields.
# New Talent: Molten Shields will cause your Fire Ward to have a 10/20% chance to reflect Fire spells while active. In addition, your Molten Armor has a 50/100% chance to affect ranged and spell attacks.

QQ start

PvP ruined PvE i dont see why they dont just take a little bit of time and modify it so you cant stack the two while in a arena.

QQ end

My question is how will this affect CD rotations. Combust/IV trinket first min, IV/trinket as soon asp. Then combust/Hero trinket while under 20%?

Also how noticeable do yall predict this nerf will be on over dps?

Very noticeable, I think. If the fight is long enough, it just means you'll Bloodlust/Heroism around 20%, then use IV down to death (I'm guessing). If it's not long enough, then you'll have to use IV before lust goes up, or at some other point during the fight. Either way, this change sucks. PvP changes that break perfectly acceptable PvE mechanics are freaking obnoxious.

Actually that week's kill was far from perfect. The scorch debuff fell off 18-19sec before the boss died due to the mage maintaining the debuff dying. Additionally I went OOM sub 20% and had to get a single tick of evocate to continue =/. The reason DPS is so high is the short length of the fight increases the overall uptime of my cooldowns.

Also, we did not have any world buffs active. For reference please see below for our logs from tonight. Whichever mage lands the first scorch is tasked with the job of keeping the stack up. This is because we are not using Scorchio and the second mage to scorch cannot see the time remaining on the debuff.

Wow Web Stats = 2633 dps on Naj'entus (Look at max ignite, I had a huge crit streak w/ multiple 8.1k crits in a row sub 20% with cooldown stacking, the ignite stack fell off at the end of the fight but it was nothing but an insanely lucky streak)
Wow Web Stats = 2643 dps on Teron Gorefiend (Power Infusion at 20% with cooldown stacking, Moonkin Aura, extra Heroism)

I think the biggest hit is going to be those of us that raid with shammys that like to bloodlust randomly. If a shaman pops BL as soon as you pop an IV, it's a complete waste of one of them. >.<

It's up to your raid leader/CO to make sure that random bloodlusts don't happen =P

You should look to replace that sham. Having a sham pop hero before 20% is a very large lose in dps for mages.