cryek

According to the conventional wisdom valuations (haste at 0.9 = 1 point of dmg and crit at 0.7-0.8 = 1 dmg) [Heart of the Pit] and [Mana Attuned Band] for [Chronicle of Dark Secrets]and [Ring of Ancient Knowledge] is a good trade. The haste you pick up isn't penalized by 'diminishing returns' of stacking too much, since this gear setup also so much +dmg on it. Haste is still a relatively good value at 338 vs 1400 spell damage plus consumables.

At that level, it would have to be at still at least as valuable point-for-point as damage, wouldn't it? An even ratio is all you'd need for 29 haste to beat 8 dmg and 23 crit.

 

Akston

Are mages just not getting an elemental shaman that often? In my guild the mages are always stuck with an elemental shaman so regardless of spec i normally find myself over the cap. Reaching 164 hit rating seems a little bit like overkill with ToW and the dranei hit aura if you are alliance.

 

Inoko

Better to be over the cap (and thus swap gear when you have the totem) than to plan to have the totem then not get it on Brutallus, say.

In short: you could reasonably build three 'cookie cutter' builds for gear. 164 Hit on one, 128~ on another [Horde] and 116~ on a third for Alliance. But, if your only gear build was for 118/130, and your shaman couldn't raid that night, you'd be dropping the ball on 3/4% of your DPS.

 

Roywyn

We've had this talk a while back - Illidari Cowl + T6 gloves has a huge amount of spell hit, T6 cowl and sunwell gloves (Sunfire or Tyri's) have a lot more non-hit damage stats.

Which one to use depended on your gear setup and your hit requirements. if you get 0/1/3/4% hit from group auras.
Also, it depended on your actual spell hit on your gear:
If you're 3 or more points away from the spell hit cap, a hit/dmg gem increases your damage. If you're 1 or 2 points away, you lose more from the lost damage than capping gives you.
But! There was usually a way to shuffle your gear around for a bit more spell hit.

Bottom line is that your gear and your choice of the old T6 piece depended on your hit setup.

[Heart of the Pit] and [Mana Attuned Band] usually were the way to go. And [Cowl of the Tempest] if you have a Totem of Wrath. If not, it depended on the situation.
I think JCers had the in several setups since they lack the +hit from the necklace.


Also, [Sunfire Handwraps] did actually beat [Gloves of Tyri's Power] in some high-end setups in Rawr. It was only by a little margin and in high haste setups, for a 6 minute fight. I *think* one factor there was mana, where Tyri's require half a mana gem, Sunfire could use half a flame cap or something.


Just checked with my setup - draenei elemental shaman, no JoW, 400 mp5 (SP + mana spring), no IDS.
Sunfire beats Tyri's by 1.09 DPS without IDS.
Tyri's beats Sunfire by 2.39 DPS with IDS.
Changing to 350 mp5 (SP + mana spring):
Sunfire beats Tyri's by 2.05 DPS without IDS.
Tyri's beats Sunfire by 1.28 DPS with IDS.

Gear setup otherwise was:
T6 cowl/bracers/belt/boots, unfettered amulet, council cloak, sunfire robe (tailor), calamity leggings, forged power/ancient knowledge (got too much hit from party auras actually), hex/skull, sunflare/heart, demonsoul wand.

13.12% hit, 29.2% crit, 23.8% haste, 1650 fire damage. 350 mp5, no JoW, no IDS, 15% molten fury time.
Using mana pots, gems and a partial Evo in a 6 minute fight.


Removing Totem of Wrath, the best choice becomes:
T6 cowl, Sunfire gloves, chronicle, forged power/mana attuned, which leaves you 0.11% under hit cap.
Changing to Illidari Cowl, T6 gloves, heart, forged power/mana attuned - is a 3.20 DPS drop, and has you at 13.76% hit. There doesn't seem to be a way to use up that excess spell hit to increase damage.

Edit:
Those estimimations don't really work well any more when you're doing sub-0.1% fine tuning, and the exact number estimates also vary with gear and buffs.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Gand

I just had a week of non-raiding after my guild broke down, before i joined a new guild (currently working on Brutallus). For that week I respeccced from my usual 3/47/11 to full frost for some solo fun. I only did MgT instances this period, so no raid experience as frost, and have no WWS to backup. However, as this was after 2.4.1 came out: I noticed a significant increase in resistance from mobs in these intance runs, at around 3% according to Recount (I ran with 125 +hit in frost spec). Could it be that Blizz hot-fixed the EP ghost-hit to frost in 2.4.1? Anyone else noticed such effects after 2.4.1?

 

Cwealm

I was coming here to post the same thing, although I am fire-specced. I have ele precision and am hit-capped, and have experienced what I believe is a dramatic increase in resists. I did not raid last week as I was out of town, and have no parses and only anecdotal evidence, but I have noticed what appears to be a marked increase in resisted spells, and this is even on same level and lower level mobs.

Anyone have any parses from the past week that we could compare to the previous months? Has anyone else noticed this? And I don't want this to become an Ony deep-breaths more inquiry, but all I have is my experiences the past few days and no raid parses.

 

Ilyawen

I can confirm the "feeling" of getting more resists; being deep fire with 158 hit I got resist rates up to 3-4% in this weeks raiding. All the parses I have seen of Brutallus indicate nothing of that kind though, so I'd guess we've just been damn unlucky - its bound to happen.
If not, the disturbing implication of this is that they in some way fixed EP in such a manner that it still works like it always did for most people, and doesn't work at all for others. Now, while the 3 "resisted" fireballs in MF-Range on Winterchill certainly DID as severly hurt my feelings as they did NOT hurt him at all, it would be such a silly thing to happen that I won't claim its anything but coincidence until we get some more reports in from other people.

 

Antiphonal

WWS here from TK/SSC, after 2.4.1 - Antiphonal - WWS

I am under the hit cap without the extra 3% from ghost EP. As you can see, my total resist rate was exactly 1%. I had no misses against lurker and a 2% miss against Leo.

Here I am against Al'ar - again after 2.4.1 - Antiphonal - WWS

Again, under the hit cap without ghost EP, and no misses at all. So, the little evidence I have shows that there has been no fix yet. BTW, even the bosses in MgT heroic are 72, not 73. So, the only thing I could imagine is if they had some magic resistance built in or something.

 

Soraxis

One thing to point out is that spell hit does not negate natural resists, only level based resists. What I mean by this is when a mob is higher level than you are they gain a certain extra chance to resist your spells, spell hit cancels yhe extra resist gained by that but not anything else, so if we are looking at a mob that has a ton of resist gear on, we're going to be seeing more resists regardless of our hit rating. What we want to look for to combat these kinds of resists is spell penetration.

"Time is like a monkey, you think its there and then its gone eating a banana."

 

galzohar

1. We know. DPS calculators take care of it already.

2. Most (practically all with like 1-2 practical exceptions) mobs and bosses have no resistance whatsoever beyond the base (around 24 for bosses, seems like 8 per level above you, limited warranty on accuracy but the idea is definitely correct) unmitigateable resist (as in, no spell penetration in the world will reduce it below that number).

3. The actual DPS increase from hit rating, obviously considering what it *does* do and not what it doesn't do, is big enough to make it the best use of itemization points until you're capped, meaning you should pretty much always be capped (with a few exceptions where you're, say, missing 2 hit rating to cap but need to lose 4 spell damage to get it in which case it's better to stay under the cap).

 

Soraxis

I think you misread my post, I wasnt by any means trying to say we should use hit rating any differently or that its changed, I was simply offering an explanation as to why people were seeing a dramatic increase in resists, its completely plausible that in 2.4 there are many mobs in sunwell that DO have spell resists, Im not saying we should get spell pen or any other way to gear...Im simply explaining why we might be seeing more resists

"Time is like a monkey, you think its there and then its gone eating a banana."

 

Docjowles

No offense, but "I ran a 5 man and it felt like I had a lot of resists but I don't have any logs" is not a sound basis for an argument. Saying Blizzard, intentionally or not, silently changed spell hit mechanics is a major claim. Unless a whole bunch of WWS parses with bizarre miss rates are forthcoming, this isn't really more productive than bitching about how too much Felheart gear drops in MC.

 

Eusheka

It just feels like it sometimes true, but its all averaged out in the end.

in 25 Brutallus trys as arc/frost i got about 4% Resist rate on frostbolt with casting about 25 frostbolts per attempt.
But the day previous i accidentally left lots of pvp gear on and ended up running a full BT with 82 hit rating and didnt get a single frostbolt resist all night.

Its just RNG, sometimes its good and sometimes its bad.

 

Cwealm

Why would anyone take offense at your obvious attempt at trolling? I mean, we only opened the discussion with this:

Pretty clearly we were asking for just what you pretend we weren't- some wws parsings to confirm or refute suspicions. For that matter, I ran WWS in BT last night and misses were negligible, so I would probably chalk up my earlier suspicions to just a string of freaky resists. Nothing has changed with spell resists, move along.

 

Pintofbrew

Aside from the lack of evidence, would you be amazingly surprised if certain magister's terrace mobs had a high innate magical resistance? Perhaps that retarded golden bubble increases resist rate aside from reducing damage size too. Perhaps you happened upon the arena-boss to shoot the rogue who was in CloS (if he can even do that?). One five man is (a) a tiny sample (b) not consistent enough (c) not comprised of 73lvl mobs.

 

Thalur

I must have missed something here... did they revert the changes that you lose any "Outdoor Buff" on entering a raid instance? AFAIK you cannot use any Darkmoon Faire Buff inside a raid instance.

 

Saphirox

Just out of curiousity, normally when you go trough an entire BT run you do not switch between trash and boss gear? You do not switch in SR gear for the Mother fight? You do not move a single gear item during a whole BT run? I find this very hard to believe.

 

Zeromega

I'm having difficulty finding any Theorycrafting Numbers on the "Sorcerer's Alchemist" Trinket. With a passive +63 Spell Damage, how does this rate for Trinkets assuming max hit rating? Currently most theorycrafting has the trinkets in the following order:

Skull of Gul'dan
Hex's Head
Darkmoon Card Crusade

Would this trinket fall below DMC but above Quag's Eye and Icon? Or because of the use on Icon maybe below Icon because of the burst that the Icon allows for?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, just dinged Exaulted with Shattered Sun Offensive last night and made this trinket, not sure how it will stack up in fights like Brutallus where max DPS is all that matters! Thanks in advance for your help.


[edit] Lhivera's Script has this trinket listed as #8 or #9 for my spec. Does it really score that low despite the passive damage? Is this because of this trinket's lack of ability to cooldown stack like other 'on use' trinkets? Seems like it's a situational trinket at best....bummer.

http://grumpycoder.net/signatures/b5.../signature.jpg

 

Etherealz

Yes, It now falls off upon zoning. I would assume the same apply's to other world buffs. Somebody must be reading manly's sig!

 

◊ manly

Well yeah I figured a while ago I might as well get the message across using my signature. Problem is, I don't know how well perceived my new sig will be. Hopefully over time people will understand I just want things to be fair.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

taciturn

Zeromega,

The general consensus is that it is not nearly as good for casters as the healing one is for healers.

The problem with Sorcerer's Alchemist stone is that unless you are running oom, it offers nothing except the passive damage. On Brutallus, you will not really need more than 1 mana pot, and one mana gem if you have a shadowpriest. Flame caps are restricted by cooldown, in order to have one up for the entirety of the last minute, there is a 2 minute dead zone if you pop one on the pull, perfect to take a mana gem in. And 2 destro pots line up perfectly with using both 3min CDs, and allow for the one mana pot needed to avoid evo.

Perhaps when more of the SW haste gear is factored in, the stone would allow you to get away without any ticks of evo, or a 2nd mana pot, but I'm not sure it would be enough.

 

Qwikk

Using the Sorcerer's Alchemist Stone depends on your group make-up imo. I know in my guild I'm paired up with an elemental shaman and a shadow priest therefore, rarely needing to use a man potion. Even with a good shadow priest the extra amount from the mana potion and the passive damage can't equal out to the amount of burst you can get with the icon, nor haste from the eye, or the spell damage from the card.

 

Nev

Our WWS from last week showed both our fire and frost mages ~1.4% resist rate in Hyjal/Gorefiend. Don't have the links atm but I can post later if needed... I think it is pretty obvious that nothing has changed with spell hit mechanics however.

 

Qwikk

posted in wrong thread, sorry.

 

• Astrylian

Has anyone seen any WWS logs of Brutallus kills with Arcane/Frost mages? (40/0/21)