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10/15/07, 7:51 AM
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#101
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Von Kaiser
Human Mage
Frostwolf (EU)
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Originally Posted by Vontre
Sure I'm not the only one who will want this, so, I don't see that directory path in my WoW directory. Do we have to create it?
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Yep thats right. The soundfile comes from a patch from curse that replaced the fizzle sounds from fire, frost, arcane etc... so I just looked for the Escape Menu sound within the MPQs and found it at this path, put the file there and renamed it.
@Topic: Is haste that good for 10/48/3 as it is/was for arcane? With 2.3 we should theoreticly be able to cast our spells without delay and the small clipping with scorch shoudn't matter (in 2.1 when I was fire and had heroism I could hardly use scorch because of /stopcasting macros, but this shouldn't matter anymore).
Last edited by Leialyn : 10/15/07 at 7:57 AM.
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10/15/07, 8:10 AM
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#102
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Von Kaiser
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stopcasting or not is not likely to matter for scorch under heroism/bloodlust.
As it has been proven on these forums, heroism does not lower the gcd.
Last edited by Baruk : 10/16/07 at 3:55 AM.
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10/15/07, 11:38 AM
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#103
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Von Kaiser
Troll Mage
Scarshield Legion (EU)
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Somebody posted somewhere in the 2.3 patch notes thread that the new anti-stopcasting mechanism doesn't work for short spells/instant casts (and apperently channeled spells as well, but I have yet to see any proof of that).
Cant find that post anymore, but here is the link to the rather informative thread on the official ptr forums
notice how he first thinks it doesnt work at all and then finds out it only doesn't work with 1.5 second casts and instants.
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10/15/07, 12:09 PM
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#104
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Piston Honda
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There is an option in the interface options menu that prevents interrupting spells to some effect (I believe from macros or new spells, obviously esc/movement will still work). But since apparently there is an issue with retrieving character lists right now I can't log in to check again.
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10/15/07, 12:23 PM
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#105
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Soda Popinski
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Uh I'm sorry but whoever wrote that crass thread in the wow forums is very confused about how things work. The change is beneficial in every sense of the word. The catch is that it won't remove lag at all if that was your expectation.
This guy simply doesn't understand that
1- timestamps are client side
2- doing 100ms wait time on a g15 is very very stupid and garantees numbers above 1.5s
3- the PTR is very laggish
The testing I did was offhour and on scorch, which happens to be 1.5s cast time as well (no haste gear). I had repeatable 40ms lag (time between casts) with 0.025s wait time between my G15 spells.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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10/16/07, 4:09 AM
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#106
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Von Kaiser
Human Death Knight
Garona
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So what are the new MSD stats in 2.3 from PTR? Anyone got that information yet? If I missed it earlier I am sorry but if at all possible could you A)post the link that has that info or B) just quote my post and tell me what they are...either way I would appreciate it....thanks!
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10/16/07, 4:11 AM
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#107
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Glass Joe
Gnome Mage
Anachronos (EU)
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I was wondering.
In 2.3 the MSD there is going to be a GCD on it.
in a post on the second page it was said that if you had ~38.7 haste rating you would get the same effect as the MSD had.
So when going to Zul'aman and stacking abit on Haste wouldnt that make CSD the better meta gem?
because the more haste you stack the tinier the effect will be on MSD.
I think i will go for the CSD myself and just get a little bit more haste from ZA.
+ i don't have to worry too much about stacking up on blue gems.
Which would give me more +hit/+crit
EDIT: woops i ment CSD instead of RED will fix it
Last edited by master_y : 10/16/07 at 7:53 AM.
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10/16/07, 4:49 AM
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#108
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Von Kaiser
Human Mage
Frostwolf (EU)
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Originally Posted by master_y
I think i will go for the RED myself and just get a little bit more haste from ZA.
+ i don't have to worry too much about stacking up on blue gems.
Which would give me more +hit/+crit
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The RED doesn't work for casters anymore since patch 2.2, but there is a new caster metagem in 2.3 called chaotic skyfire diamond (CSD), giving 12 spell critrating and 3% more critdamage. The requirements are exactly 2 blue gems (not more and not less)
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10/16/07, 6:04 AM
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#109
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Bald Bull
Roywyn
Gnome Mage
No WoW Account (EU)
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Some quick and dirty math on how Fire Blast affects Fireball spam.
Fire Blast - 725 base, 1.5/3.5 = 42.9% +damage, +4% crit
Fireball - 719 base, 115% +damage, +x% haste, +5% damage at 4/5 T6
All specs get +10% (FP), +3% (PWF), +4% (MF), +5% (Misery), +10% (CoE), +15% (Scorch) damage. Ignoring hit, it affect boths specs the same way.
In 1.5s, we can cast 1 Fire Blast, or 0.5*(1+haste%) Fireballs (ignoring latency). The redulting DPS difference is that damage difference divided by 7.5 (you can cast Fire Blast every 7.5s).
So, Fire Blast vs. Fireball in 1.5s is as follows:
Blue gear, 900 damage, 20% crit
2197 vs. 1675, 70 DPS difference
Epic gear and raid buffs, 2% haste (from MSD), 1300 damage, 30% crit
2757 vs. 2350, 54 DPS difference
Top end gear, 7% haste, T6 bonus, 1500 damage, 35% crit
3059 vs. 2976, 11 DPS difference
Also, Fire Blast will lose more to cast delay Fireball, due to being twice as fast. Not sure if the 2.3 changes will make that issue obsolete.
Seems to me that haste, MSD and 4/5 T6 killed Fire Blast in rotations. Vontre's sheet draws and even worse picture with 0.2s cast delay.
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10/16/07, 7:13 AM
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#110
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Glass Joe
Human Mage
Twilight's Hammer (EU)
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Manly,
I have a G15 keyboard aswell but actually never explored the options u talk about. Could u point me to a "guide"? or maybe explain to me what u do to make casting optimal ?
Last edited by geraroz : 10/17/07 at 3:05 AM.
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10/16/07, 10:42 AM
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#111
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King Hippo
Leito
Troll Rogue
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Roywyn
Some quick and dirty math on how Fire Blast affects Fireball spam.
Fire Blast - 725 base, 1.5/3.5 = 42.9% +damage, +4% crit
Fireball - 719 base, 115% +damage, +x% haste, +5% damage at 4/5 T6
All specs get +10% (FP), +3% (PWF), +4% (MF), +5% (Misery), +10% (CoE), +15% (Scorch) damage. Ignoring hit, it affect boths specs the same way.
In 1.5s, we can cast 1 Fire Blast, or 0.5*(1+haste%) Fireballs (ignoring latency). The redulting DPS difference is that damage difference divided by 7.5 (you can cast Fire Blast every 7.5s).
So, Fire Blast vs. Fireball in 1.5s is as follows:
Blue gear, 900 damage, 20% crit
2197 vs. 1675, 70 DPS difference
Epic gear and raid buffs, 2% haste (from MSD), 1300 damage, 30% crit
2757 vs. 2350, 54 DPS difference
Top end gear, 7% haste, T6 bonus, 1500 damage, 35% crit
3059 vs. 2976, 11 DPS difference
Also, Fire Blast will lose more to cast delay Fireball, due to being twice as fast. Not sure if the 2.3 changes will make that issue obsolete.
Seems to me that haste, MSD and 4/5 T6 killed Fire Blast in rotations. Vontre's sheet draws and even worse picture with 0.2s cast delay.
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Yea, pretty much fireball scales better than fireblast, so eventually it will be less dps if you include it in a rotation. This is good though, as fireball is more mana efficient.
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Rogue at heart.
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10/16/07, 3:48 PM
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#112
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Glass Joe
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I didn't see this said anywhere, but I don't think the change to spell casts will help casts <= 1.5 seconds. If you are not manually stopping cast on client side, the GCD will continue until the end, which mean you can't send any casts to the server until its finished (assuming it doesn't send requests during GCD on client side). I suppose it would theoretically reduce the lag time by a half since you are only sending one way and dont need to wait for the cast finished message from the server. So instants followed by a cast won't benefit at all (big deal, they didn't before). More importantly 1.5 seconds casts like scorch or ramped AB could still be improved with stopcasting macro. You would just have to be more precise.
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10/16/07, 4:17 PM
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#113
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Mr. Sandman
Gnome Mage
Cenarion Circle
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That makes sense, I was definitely noticing more latency with scorch than with fireball/frostbolt when I did my tests.
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www.magegraf.com
Raiding is full of challenge. Sometimes there is fire. You have to not be in the fire.
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10/17/07, 12:48 AM
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#114
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Piston Honda
Gnome Mage
Black Dragonflight
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Originally Posted by Queuetip
I didn't see this said anywhere, but I don't think the change to spell casts will help casts <= 1.5 seconds. If you are not manually stopping cast on client side, the GCD will continue until the end, which mean you can't send any casts to the server until its finished (assuming it doesn't send requests during GCD on client side). I suppose it would theoretically reduce the lag time by a half since you are only sending one way and dont need to wait for the cast finished message from the server. So instants followed by a cast won't benefit at all (big deal, they didn't before). More importantly 1.5 seconds casts like scorch or ramped AB could still be improved with stopcasting macro. You would just have to be more precise.
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WoW BlueTracker: Analysis of 1.5 s cast problems on Test
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10/17/07, 2:38 AM
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#115
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Great Tiger
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I still don't get the stubbornness of Blizzard on this one. While the upcoming solution is better than what we had, a simple .5 to 1s server-side queue is still a more elegant solution in my opinion.
We'll see how it plays out of course.
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10/17/07, 3:26 AM
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#116
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Roywyn
Some quick and dirty math on how Fire Blast affects Fireball spam.
Fire Blast - 725 base, 1.5/3.5 = 42.9% +damage, +4% crit
Fireball - 719 base, 115% +damage, +x% haste, +5% damage at 4/5 T6
All specs get +10% (FP), +3% (PWF), +4% (MF), +5% (Misery), +10% (CoE), +15% (Scorch) damage. Ignoring hit, it affect boths specs the same way.
In 1.5s, we can cast 1 Fire Blast, or 0.5*(1+haste%) Fireballs (ignoring latency). The redulting DPS difference is that damage difference divided by 7.5 (you can cast Fire Blast every 7.5s).
So, Fire Blast vs. Fireball in 1.5s is as follows:
Blue gear, 900 damage, 20% crit
2197 vs. 1675, 70 DPS difference
Epic gear and raid buffs, 2% haste (from MSD), 1300 damage, 30% crit
2757 vs. 2350, 54 DPS difference
Top end gear, 7% haste, T6 bonus, 1500 damage, 35% crit
3059 vs. 2976, 11 DPS difference
Also, Fire Blast will lose more to cast delay Fireball, due to being twice as fast. Not sure if the 2.3 changes will make that issue obsolete.
Seems to me that haste, MSD and 4/5 T6 killed Fire Blast in rotations. Vontre's sheet draws and even worse picture with 0.2s cast delay.
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Amazing, I was looking for this exact post without knowing it existed. This is highly helpful, as I'm trying to educate some mages on why you should cast fireball:scorch 5:1
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10/17/07, 10:53 AM
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#117
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King Hippo
Leito
Troll Rogue
No WoW Account
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Pardon me if I'm just missing something here, but what does Roywyn's post have to do with casting a 5:1 fireball:scorch rotation? All I see is discussion on the scaling of including fire blast in cycles as gear improves.
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Rogue at heart.
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10/17/07, 11:47 AM
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#118
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Von Kaiser
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One of the mages I was discussing this with was saying that Fireblast should be used every cooldown while I was arguing that at the current gear level of the mages in the conversation that Fireblast every cooldown is not nearly enough of DPS increase to justify the DPM and breaking a 9:1 fireball to scorch rotation, considering MSD procs and haste.
(And yes, I mistyped earlier 5:1 should have been 9:1)
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10/17/07, 12:02 PM
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#119
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Glass Joe
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Wait so the ritual of refresment only provides 50 pieces of Food/water. Not 50 stacks?
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10/17/07, 12:29 PM
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#120
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Piston Honda
Gnome Mage
Black Dragonflight
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50 stacks
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10/17/07, 12:35 PM
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#121
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Glass Joe
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I dont think anyone will be complaining then. 3 mages 150 stacks 6 stacks per person gg.
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10/17/07, 12:44 PM
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#122
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Piston Honda
Gnome Mage
Black Dragonflight
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The only problem is when someone decides they need 20 stacks. I plan on telling everyone 'If you didn't get any water, find the person that got 400 and ask them for some because I'm not making any more for a few hours.'
But that has nothing to do with mage damage. :p
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10/17/07, 1:07 PM
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#123
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Von Kaiser
Gnome Mage
Sunstrider (EU)
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To be honest, I would still say fireblast is a great spell - its instant and can be casted whilst moving. Fair enough the range is pretty balls but its still helpful when you want to move in a bossfight (which im sure you all do).
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10/17/07, 1:58 PM
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#124
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Soda Popinski
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If someone takes 20 stacks, that means it also takes 20 stack of their inventory space. I am pretty sure it wouldn't be standard practice to burn through the stacks just to be an asshat.
In any case, 2 stack of mana biscuits for all raid members is a LOT better than 10x healthstones and their multi rank bs.
Last edited by manly : 10/17/07 at 2:04 PM.
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<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff
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10/17/07, 2:27 PM
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#125
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by manly
If someone takes 20 stacks, that means it also takes 20 stack of their inventory space. I am pretty sure it wouldn't be standard practice to burn through the stacks just to be an asshat.
In any case, 2 stack of mana biscuits for all raid members is a LOT better than 10x healthstones and their multi rank bs.
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Arcane Fortitude has been removed. In it's place will now be "Improved Ritual of Refreshment". It will be a 2 point talent, where each point improves the restoration effects of the mana biscuits by 10% per talent point and will leave a "well-fed" buff of 10 to all stats, 5mp5, and 5hp5 per talent point.
Something along those lines? ^^
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