Krazen

This is true, but the benefit of dropping 13 hit isn't always 13 haste (in fact, that's the maximum tradeoff you can get).

Swapping [Mana Attuned Band] for [Ring of Ancient Knowledge], for example, nets you far less dps than this, although you gain stamina.

 

Johnneke

Does anyone made any calculations on what the sweet spots on haste are for fire destruction locks? So a certain amounts of incinerates fits perfectly within the immolate ticking time. (does the flight time of the last incinerate needs to be calculated?)

 

Roaminggnome

I'm going to have to agree with the several other posters who stated that you cannot count on another player's buff to cap you at hit. (Be it a dranei or a shaman with ToW). There are many uncertainties, and even if you get grouped with one of those classes, there is nothing to say they might not die very early in the encounter, leaving you potentially far below the hit cap. Just my personal feeling, and if you are n farm content and your shamans don't die, by all means gear for less hit if you have the pieces to swap in.

 

Flamingcloud

This is just not true. Most of the sunwell fights are tuned so if one person dies it is a wipe so there is no reason not to rely on the 1% hit. Now I agree counting on ToW is not wise because I assume in most guilds their elemental shaman either doesn't have 100% attendance or has to spec resto for multiple fights. (Although you can swap a ToC/Chronicle for Zhar'Doom and basically go from cap to 3% below cap when you have the ele shaman)

Being below the hit cap is not the end of the world. If you can lets say gain only 8 dmg instead of having that 12 hit you would only need the shaman to be alive/in range 55% of the time to come out ahead. It is an even bigger gap if you have to gem from 190 to 202.(and gain 14dmg or some dmg/haste etc)

 

Arelenda

You get the bonus if Immolate is up when the cast leaves your hand.

I doubt there are sweet spots that actually matter in 25 mans, since you can pretty much count on other warlock Immolates to be up in the short window that yours isn't. But it might be more convenient to have a fixed rotation. Even though LT probably messes that up.

 

Flamingcloud

Other warlocks immolates? Unless you have 2 fire locks (suboptimal to be sure), or an affliction warlock (which means you would have 1.13 CoS) there won't be a second immolate.

 

Morwen

If you have a fire lock in the raid then one of the shadow locks can help by putting up Immolate, it's not going to drop their dps so much that it outweighs the potential cost of getting lots of clipped Incinerates when the timers don't line up.

 

Trickykid

Even in the worst case scenario of having an incinerate land without the buff every immolate "cycle", DPS drops by less than 1% with sunwell gear. You're probably going to see a larger DPS drop by striving to land every incinerate on immolates than by ignoring it and using: If no immolate, immolate. If immolate, incinerate. If immolate will drop during the next incinerate, still cast incinerate.

 

Flamingcloud

If they need assistance than the minimal advantage of being fire is already invalidated. If I turn immolate on the spreadsheet has me at a 57 dps loss, coupled with the 70-90 dps loss the raid suffers from losing a shadow lock that is well well beyond acceptable.

 

ninielin

Ok I got a question!!


On brutallus right now. 1 on Dm but thats beside the point. I have problem understanding how aggro works and basically if critical hits = more aggro than a normal hit ( at equal dmg). If I start dpsing right away I have to stop after about 1 min ( 2600 dps average with balance + shaman elem). Now my problem is that while I don't dps , the other destro warlock catch up on the DM ( and take the first place) BUT still end up far behind me in term of aggro generation. Now what I don't understand is how that is possible. We both have the same spe, the same buffs and the same 2% less aggro on the cloak.

My gear is better than his ( more haste/crit) so I guess the only way would be crits generate more aggro ( since my crit rate is 10% over his).

 

Trickykid

Your threat is based on damage, there isn't any extra from crit other than the extra damage you deal. Are you two in the same group? Maybe his shaman is dropping TA for the first part. Are you casting any DPS curses that cause more threat per damage?

 

Flamingcloud

Well the other lock probably got to shatter later in the fight(thus dropping a higher raw threat number). The later you shatter the higher your maximum damage without pulling aggro is.

 

ninielin

We are in the same group and no shatter involved ( I wouldn't have posted duh, I m not totally stupid ^^), thats why I don't understand the threat behavior on this one. I don't understand how his total dmg can be higher than mine while having less aggro ( keep in mind I m not talking over the whole course of the fight, just the first 90 sec).


Same group, same buff, no vashj trinket, no soul shatter etc.


Basically : we both start dpsing, at 1min I have to stop else I pull aggro. at 1min20 when I start dpsing, he has higher total dmg ( since I haven't done any dmg in the last 20sec) but on omen he is still under me threat wise. Thats not logical at all.

The only difference between him and me is the 100 more haste + 3% crit or so + I suppose 75 dmg or something like that.

Ps: basically the only diff is that I cast faster than he does and I crit more soooo either crit affect threat ( which isn't the case) or there is a minimum aggro number for SB on omen and since I cast faster than him it screw up the whole thing

 

Johnneke

Exactly I noticed aswell that on Brutallus the time you will soulshatter will really influence your performance on the fight alot.

 

Deathnotes

The answer to your question is spell critical strikes. Most of our damage comes from those 4k+ shadowbolts not the high 9k shadowbolt crits. You could've gotten more crits than he therefore increasing your threat (crit = +1/4 of the damage in threat, I think...) and you both reached the same damage.

In this you could factor you critting 3x in a row to his 1x every 3 shadowbolts.

 

Arangom

No. Spell critical strikes do not generate extra threat.

 

rejdakon

I don't know where you got that from, but I have never noticed such behavior in threat generation, neither have I read the like here or in any other DpS discussion (to the contrary, actually, the crit=more threat theory is generally considered a myth).

Any reference to solid theory crafting evidencing this allegation?

 

Arelenda

I can confirm this being completely wrong.

All my tests indicate crits giving equal threat per damage point.

 

Ele'

Some random ideas: do you both have up-to-date Threat Meters ? Maybe one of you have a deprecated Meter giving him wrong informations. Or is one of you in melee range and not the other ? (remember that Brut has a huge hit box...)

Another option would be that he's an old time raider owning a Fetish of the Sand Reaver, and he use it just before the pull, swapping it for its normal trinket ? (not sure if this would work, as I got RNGed and Fankriss never dropped it for me)

 

Koshir

Have you more healing procs?

 

Thanahtos

If you gave us a WWS, it would be easy to see what was going on. (Lifebloom blooms, Prayer of Mending, etc.)

 

Skellum

Sorry to just jump around in this thread, but could anybody recap right quick for me, what is been decided to be the ultimate warlock set with all of the gear currently avaliable in the game?

Edit: More simply, anyone have a link to where in this thread we reached the momentus decision.

My Name Is Skellum, And I wear a Silly Hat.

 

Twinbladez

 

Skellum

thanks very much.

My Name Is Skellum, And I wear a Silly Hat.

 

deadzepplin