Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11/02/07, 12:23 PM   #166
Graul
King Hippo
 
Graul's Avatar
 
Orc Warrior
 
Fenris
Does the matched speed weapons really have any noticeable impact? I realize the potential for an extra flurried attack, but does it happen often enough to really even be a consideration? Whether or not you can actually get two decent weapons of the same speed is a relative non issue though, because you can do that easily.

Offline
Old 11/02/07, 3:25 PM   #167
Apate
POWER = MEAT + OPPORTUNITY = BATTLEWORMS
 
Apate's Avatar
 
ChickenArise
Night Elf Warlock
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by Graul View Post
Does the matched speed weapons really have any noticeable impact? I realize the potential for an extra flurried attack, but does it happen often enough to really even be a consideration? Whether or not you can actually get two decent weapons of the same speed is a relative non issue though, because you can do that easily.
Disquette's thread on flurry mechanics has some data on this.

See you, auntie.

United States Offline
Old 11/02/07, 3:25 PM   #168
Gruntle
King Hippo
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Caesar View Post
Basically I took the probability to renew the flurry if you have it as flurry uptime. it is NOT the actual uptime, but it's very close to it it seems.
Hmm, won't this assumption work against the fast weapons? Consider a situation where flurry is not triggered within the uptime. The next possible time a new flurry can be triggered is the next attack (white or yellow), the time until this next attack will in general be smaller for faster weapons, thus you will spend less time as unflurried with fast weapons. Or did I go wrong somewhere?

Not sure how to model the effect of unflurried periods though.

Offline
Old 11/02/07, 5:01 PM   #169
Drwal
Glass Joe
 
Drwal's Avatar
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Burning Legion (EU)
Take into account, that "average" stats of "use-trinkets" like [Bloodlust Brooch], used in calculations are in fact the worst case scenario. That means, its good only in static fights, which last for (trinket's cd * n) minutes. For the Brooch it's 72ap + 1/6 * 278ap = 118.33ap, where 1/6 is taken from: 20secs of use divided by 2mins cd.

The best case scenario is fight which lasts for (trinket's cd * n + trinket's use-ability's time), for Brooch that would be for example 2min20sec fight, where it's value is rather 72ap + 2/7 * 278ap = 151ap, where 2/7 is taken from: 40secs of uses (one time at 0:00, and 2nd time at 2:00) divided by 2min20sec of fight.

Also, trinket's with use ability have natural advantage over "proc" ones in non-static fights, where u want to pump up your dps in certain moments.

That altogether probably makes [Berserker's Call] the best trinket for dps warrior in game after 2.3.

Offline
Old 11/02/07, 5:48 PM   #170
Drwal
Glass Joe
 
Drwal's Avatar
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Burning Legion (EU)
I'd also be glad to see some way of including sharpening stones in calculations, since +12wep dmg is far from unsignificant, and it favorizes fast weapons too, which are, right now, discriminated by the spreadsheet.

Offline
Old 11/02/07, 6:29 PM   #171
Tkon
Glass Joe
 
Tkon's Avatar
 
Human Warrior
 
<bsD>
Korgath
I have been reading about warriors dps now for quite some times. I'm pretty sure I understand how it works w/ rotations and using certain abilities over others while they are up. I was wondering if there was a better site then warcraftmovies to see this in action. Theory craft is fun, but I'd like to see some decent fury and arms warriors in some actual PvE situations doing this kind of dps. Any suggestions?

Offline
Old 11/02/07, 8:18 PM   #172
Caesar
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Moonglade (EU)
Originally Posted by Gruntle View Post
Hmm, won't this assumption work against the fast weapons? Consider a situation where flurry is not triggered within the uptime. The next possible time a new flurry can be triggered is the next attack (white or yellow), the time until this next attack will in general be smaller for faster weapons, thus you will spend less time as unflurried with fast weapons. Or did I go wrong somewhere?

Not sure how to model the effect of unflurried periods though.
No it shouldn't. Probability to renew it regardless if it's up or not is the same, perhaps my wording was a bit ill. In another way it does not give fast weapons a correct uptime though, but that part is incredibly hard to model and is what I used my simulator for. There is a startuptime for all (regardless of critchance and weapons speed). This will be shorter with faster weapons and higher critrate. Ie, the theoretical uptime is too positive, it assumes you have flurry on from the beginning and there is no pauses in dps. However these errors are not that big (I would guess in the vicinity of 1% or less) and other factors matter more, such as if you have to run out or boss goes away for 12+ seconds you will loose flurry, and you have to get a first crit again. Anyways, I think that will be overcomplicating things, and making a full dps simulator would be easier than incorporate that in to forumale. Boss fight, generally have a greater impact on flurry uptime (how many bosses do you stand still 10 minutes and just go full out from start to end?).

Long story short: it works against fast weapons marginally (for other reasons though). It's not worth to try to fix.

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 9:54 AM   #173
Rhaeti
Von Kaiser
 
Rhaeti's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
<SXM>
Area 52
Originally Posted by Drwal View Post
I'd also be glad to see some way of including sharpening stones in calculations, since +12wep dmg is far from unsignificant, and it favorizes fast weapons too, which are, right now, discriminated by the spreadsheet.
If you're talking about adamantite sharpening stones, those are already included in the spreadsheet. It adds 7 damage (12*.625 rounded down) to your off hand's average damage.

Originally Posted by Tkon View Post
I have been reading about warriors dps now for quite some times. I'm pretty sure I understand how it works w/ rotations and using certain abilities over others while they are up. I was wondering if there was a better site then warcraftmovies to see this in action. Theory craft is fun, but I'd like to see some decent fury and arms warriors in some actual PvE situations doing this kind of dps. Any suggestions?
The only movie I know of is Curse's BT video which shows several shots of their fury warrior DPSing: Curse(MYM.WoW) : Black Temple The Movie

On a separate matter I and others have noticed that if you increase your stats to the point where you get an extra HS in your cycle, dps will show a huge increase even if it was just an insignificant amount of stats that were added (I've had a 20 dps increase from a 5 hit rating addition). Perhaps a better way to model this would be using partial numbers in the cycle instead of whole numbers for excess rage. I'm not sure what is done with excess rage that isn't used in the cycle so I may be missing something.

Last edited by Rhaeti : 11/03/07 at 10:09 AM.


Offline
Old 11/03/07, 10:48 AM   #174
Tectonic
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Dethecus
After 2.3 which is best: fast offhands or slower ones?

Does the damage from having a slow offhand offset the benefits of having a faster one?

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 11:04 AM   #175
Thorquiz
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Die Silberne Hand (EU)
Mathematically, there are no "benefits of having a faster offhand". The benefits are more .. subjective, e.g. smoother rage gain - nothing you can't compensate with good rage management. So yes, 2.3-whirlwind changes favor slower offhands over fast ones, but the difference between a non-dagger fast offhand and a slow offhand is like <10dps, so it's not as important as one might think.

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 11:21 AM   #176
Tectonic
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warrior
 
Dethecus
What about flurry up time. Does a faster offhand translate into an overall higher up time for flurry?

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 11:27 AM   #177
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Tectonic View Post
What about flurry up time. Does a faster offhand translate into an overall higher up time for flurry?
Why should it?
It's exactly the other way round as faster offhands consume instant's flurries faster.

Germany Offline
Old 11/03/07, 3:25 PM   #178
Brissa
Not enough rage
 
Brissa's Avatar
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Rhaeti View Post
On a separate matter I and others have noticed that if you increase your stats to the point where you get an extra HS in your cycle, dps will show a huge increase even if it was just an insignificant amount of stats that were added (I've had a 20 dps increase from a 5 hit rating addition). Perhaps a better way to model this would be using partial numbers in the cycle instead of whole numbers for excess rage. I'm not sure what is done with excess rage that isn't used in the cycle so I may be missing something.
Yes I have to agree on that.
I think the previous spreadsheet (by deathwing) did that, no?

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 8:48 PM   #179
Anidal
Glass Joe
 
Night Elf Warrior
 
Proudmoore (EU)
It seems to me that for the Miss-Chance showed in "Buffed DPS"-Part is incorrect for the Mainhand. For Main- and Offhand there is shown the same Misschance value (and the same crit, hitchance for both hands). But i think this is incorrect since at about 9% hitchance, there should be no chance for the MH to miss. Over this only the offhand should miss. So with 9% hitchance it should be 0% miss MainHand and 19% miss OffHand. (No expertise rating or the old weaponskill. Against a Boss with lvl 73)

I dunno if the DPS are calculated this way or calculated with the same miss for both hands. But calculated with the same miss for both hands should be incorrect.


I have a question too, is the chance for glancings decreased by hit rating or not influenced?

Offline
Old 11/03/07, 9:01 PM   #180
Rhaeti
Von Kaiser
 
Rhaeti's Avatar
 
Tauren Warrior
 
<SXM>
Area 52
Originally Posted by Anidal View Post
It seems to me that for the Miss-Chance showed in "Buffed DPS"-Part is incorrect for the Mainhand. For Main- and Offhand there is shown the same Misschance value (and the same crit, hitchance for both hands). But i think this is incorrect since at about 9% hitchance, there should be no chance for the MH to miss. Over this only the offhand should miss. So with 9% hitchance it should be 0% miss MainHand and 19% miss OffHand. (No expertise rating or the old weaponskill. Against a Boss with lvl 73)

I dunno if the DPS are calculated this way or calculated with the same miss for both hands. But calculated with the same miss for both hands should be incorrect.


I have a question too, is the chance for glancings decreased by hit rating or not influenced?
Wow, you have no idea what you are talking about. You don't even need theorycrafting to realize that your MH auto attacks have far more than a 9% miss chance. It looks like you totally misunderstood the 9% hit information that is spouted on the wow forums. There is an 8.6% chance for your special attacks (yellow damage) to miss, not all MH attacks. Glancing blows cannot be decreased with hit rating either.


Offline
 

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Public Discussion » Class Mechanics

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
DPS Warrior Spreadsheet Deathwing Class Mechanics 1901 11/06/07 4:32 PM
Possible to Fully Run Warrior Dps Spreadsheet Without Full Excel? DarthB Public Discussion 11 11/22/06 6:27 PM
Warrior Trinket Comparison (Earthstrike worth it for DW fury warrior?) Kasi Public Discussion 13 08/22/06 9:11 AM
Fury warrior / MS warrior vs. Rogues for raids? Petehmb Public Discussion 14 08/02/06 7:01 PM