[Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond - Page 2

Ren · 10/14/07, 3:00 AM

List of non-plate items that are either competitive in it's tier or best in slot for either Fury or MS:

[Midnight Chestguard]
[Bloodsea Brigand's Vest]
[Shadowmaster's Boots]
[Softstep Boots of Tracking]
[Grips of Damnation]
[Fists of Mukoa]
[Cursed Vision of Sargeras]
[Forest Prowler's Helm]
[Bow-stitched Leggings]
[Leggings of Murderous Intent]
[Swiftstrike Shoulders]
[Shoulders of Lightning Reflexes]
[Mantle of Darkness]
[Shoulders of the Hidden Predator]
[Shadow-walker's Cord]
[Valestalker Girdle]
[Don Alejandro's Money Belt]
[Boneweave Girdle]
[Bindings of Lightning Reflexes]
[Deadly Cuffs]

Olon97 · 10/14/07, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kloppy

I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Once you commit to x/x/14 - since you're writing off impale, how much of a drop is it to go further in to get 1h mastery? 10% increased damage to all attacks as long as a 1h is equipped vs. top end fury tree talents.

Darkmantle · 10/14/07, 4:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kloppy

I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Its _very_ tempting to skill World of Warcraft Europe -> Game Guide -> Charakter -> Talente -> Krieger for example. Imagine the viability to tank heroics with the changes to tactical mastery.

I would be loath to do heroics without piercing howl. On some it wouldn't matter much but on shattered halls and shadow labs it can make a huge difference.

Brissa · 10/14/07, 5:05 AM

Originally Posted by Kloppy

I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Its _very_ tempting to skill World of Warcraft Europe -> Game Guide -> Charakter -> Talente -> Krieger for example. Imagine the viability to tank heroics with the changes to tactical mastery.

You also loose parry, which to me is unthinkable as a raid tank.

Kloppy · 10/14/07, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Brissa

You also loose parry, which to me is unthinkable as a raid tank.

I clearly stated I wanted to tank heroics. The tanking ability there is not limited by avoidance but by thread!

Originally Posted by Darkmantle

I would be loath to do heroics without piercing howl. On some it wouldn't matter much but on shattered halls and shadow labs it can make a huge difference.

I almost never use Piercing Hole when tanking and if it is so important to you, put the "free" point from Deflection into it.

Originally Posted by Olon97

Once you commit to x/x/14 - since you're writing off impale, how much of a drop is it to go further in to get 1h mastery? 10% increased damage to all attacks as long as a 1h is equipped vs. top end fury tree talents.

You will loose about 10% total damage, if my calculations are correct. I am also not sure whether you really gain 10% more damage on all attacks, blood thirst also works when you have no weapon equipped.

Darkrenown · 10/14/07, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Kloppy

I clearly stated I wanted to tank heroics. The tanking ability there is not limited by avoidance but by thread!

Even when raidtanking you may find yourself with too much avoidence at high levels of gear and be ok with dropping deflection. You'd probably want someone else with imp TC though.
But imp TC is nice for AoE aggro in heroics. I suppose you could SS/WW though.

Originally Posted by Kloppy

You will loose about 10% total damage, if my calculations are correct. I am also not sure whether you really gain 10% more damage on all attacks, blood thirst also works when you have no weapon equipped.

Did you add in 10% on both weapons with WW?

Painkiller · 10/14/07, 1:58 PM

Question, [Swiftsteel Bludgeon], is coming out around 100dps above every other offhand, even above the warglaives. Is that a bug in calculations or is it actually real, the previous sheet (9.11) had Swiftsteel several dps above everything else except for warglaives ofcourse.

Graul · 10/14/07, 2:05 PM

I'm not getting that. For me, the order from strongest to weaker is; Season 3 1h Axe, Warglaive, Season 2 1h Axe, Rising Tide, Swiftsteel Bludgeon.

Kloppy · 10/14/07, 2:31 PM

Originally Posted by Darkrenown

Even when raidtanking you may find yourself with too much avoidence at high levels of gear and be ok with dropping deflection. You'd probably want someone else with imp TC though.
But imp TC is nice for AoE aggro in heroics. I suppose you could SS/WW though.

Did you add in 10% on both weapons with WW?

Yes, I did.

PS: Something for you all to laugh about:
Article: General Guide to High-End Warrior PVE @ 29.09.2007 - 05:19 | Nihilum.eu - World of Warcraft Gaming

Wohoo the best dps-warrior in the world hsa no clue. xD

EDIT: Sorry I have to quote him. ^^

Boots: Use Surefooted here. The 10 extra Hit Rating are superior to any other Enchant.

Aim for 34% raidbuffed. This theoretically ensures that Flurry never fades.

Brissa · 10/14/07, 8:08 PM

Originally Posted by Kloppy

Wohoo the best dps-warrior in the world hsa no clue. xD

EDIT: Sorry I have to quote him. ^^

Wow, thats sad.
But not really suprising.
It shows how dedication is more important than knowlege.

Furias · 10/14/07, 9:33 PM

Would it be possible to add options to the spreadsheet for ~15 points into protection spec to get the +6 expertise from defiance? I'm fairly sure it will be a dps drop, but I'm curious how much of a drop it will be, and I'm not remotely competant enough to edit the spreadsheet myself.

You should consider the fact that the +6 Expertise from Defiance only apply in Defensive Stance. At least this is what the ingame charakter window tells me, when I am switching between Defensive Stance and Berserker Stance for example.

Graul · 10/15/07, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Brissa

Wow, thats sad.
But not really suprising.
It shows how dedication is more important than knowlege.

Not sure why he is purposely misquoting, but here is what is actually taken from the guide:

Boots: Use Surefooted here. The 10 extra Hit Rating are superior to any other Enchant. You can always use your old boots for a runspeed Enchant which can be handy at some encounters but generally you do not need runspeed.

Some stuff about itemization: There is a lot of discussions on the official class forums about this. This reflects my opinion and it worked quite well for me:
Crit: Aim for 34% raidbuffed. This theoretically ensures that Flurry never fades. Of course having more Crit is still a DPS-Increase but i like other stats then.
Hit: 200 Hit Rating (~13%) + 3% Hit from your talents is enough. You will basically not feel any lack of rage with this.
Attack power: Always a good stat but remember: Strength > AP because its scaling with Kings.
Armor Pierce/Haste: After the recent Haste nerf try to get Armor Pierce if you can. It Boosts your overall damage and helps you for example to maximize your execute-damage to be able to kill bosses last percent fast.

If you have any further information you feel should be added, don’t hesitate to post and I will copy paste it with credits of course.

Brissa · 10/15/07, 5:32 AM

Because its still wrong.
You could have 99% crit and flurry could still fade from you.

Hozz · 10/15/07, 8:07 AM

I dont think that guide was bad. I think it will be helpful to most people that read it. Off the top of my head the only things I found questionable was the recommendation of Surefooted (Dex, Boar/Cat seem like better choices to me) and Elixir of Mastery as the recommended battle elixir (Major Agi, Major Str both superior IMO).

Gruntle · 10/15/07, 9:13 AM

Based on using the spreadsheet, 12 agi is somewhat better than 10 hit rating (after reaching 9% +hit), so Surefooted is probably not the best option. Other than that and the flurry misunderstanding I don't think the guide was that bad.

Anyakfe · 10/15/07, 10:03 AM

FYI, this graph represents the flurry uptime (y-axis) based on %crit (x-axis)

Nite_Moogle · 10/15/07, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Gandharva

IMHO Weapon Expertise is pretty useless, because most of the time we are able to attack the bosses from behind to completely ignore doge/parry. But it's pretty useful for Tanks to build up more aggro.

Deathwish swap not the end of the world...

Weapon Mastery is now going to be a straight-up 4% dodge reduction, which makes it some of the best talent points you can spend in any tree.

Bronwyn · 10/15/07, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

Deathwish swap not the end of the world...

Weapon Mastery is now going to be a straight-up 4% dodge reduction, which makes it some of the best talent points you can spend in any tree.

Did it ever occur to you that this blue poster said something utterly wrong here? 4% -dodge would be roughly 5% increase in yellow damage - for 2 talent points - RIGHT.

It actually is 1% - at least on the PTR ...

Paa · 10/15/07, 10:26 AM

Read the post by Kalgan. He states that the current version of weapon mastery in the fury tree is outdated and will be changed in a upcoming ptr patch.

If it's true then it will be a very nice dps boost almost certainly negating deathwish.

Right now i have 20.79% hit in my normal fury gear and in a full raid my "misses" and my "dodged attacks" are of equal amounts so reducing the amount of dodged attacks should be pretty nice.

Bronwyn · 10/15/07, 10:33 AM

Reducing the amount of dodges is only relevant for yellow damage and has nothing to do with your hit-rating once you are above 9% hit.

Nite_Moogle · 10/15/07, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Reducing the amount of dodges is only relevant for yellow damage and has nothing to do with your hit-rating once you are above 9% hit.

This is at least your sixth post that shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all, and frankly I suspect it's not even worth saying that 1% less dodge is a universal 1% DPS increase for a warrior since you'll tell me it's wrong.

Korlong · 10/15/07, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Paa

Right now i have 20.79% hit in my normal fury gear

Uhhh... yeah.

Anyways, the dodge reduction granted by weapon mastery IS comparable to hit rating, in that it increases both your white and yellow damage.

The trick is going to be figuring out how to take it - i'm thinking take a point out of improved WW and a point out of improved execute.

Graul · 10/15/07, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Korlong

Uhhh... yeah.

Anyways, the dodge reduction granted by weapon mastery IS comparable to hit rating, in that it increases both your white and yellow damage.

The trick is going to be figuring out how to take it - i'm thinking take a point out of improved WW and a point out of improved execute.

If you are struggling to find what two points to remove, remove two from precision. You might lose 2% hit, but you gain -2% dodge (on top of the other -2% dodge) on white hits and -4% dodge on all yellow.

Bronwyn · 10/15/07, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

This is at least your sixth post that shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all, and frankly I suspect it's not even worth saying that 1% less dodge is a universal 1% DPS increase for a warrior since you'll tell me it's wrong.

Not telling you that it's wrong. I'm only stating that you and me can't know whether the -1% dodge will be replaced by a hit or a miss.

If you have a source, I'd be thankful.

Nite_Moogle · 10/15/07, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Not telling you that it's wrong. I'm only stating that you and me can't know whether the -1% dodge will be replaced by a hit or a miss.

If you have a source, I'd be thankful.

As much as I despise wowwiki as a source, you need to do some reading on how the hit table works. Lowering an NPC's dodge, parry or your chance to miss by an amount will result in that amount more hits. This is not a new concept.