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Old 10/13/07, 1:00 PM   #16
dr_AllCOM3
Great Tiger
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Blutkessel (EU)
Originally Posted by mogun View Post
No, I said the opposite. It applies on ALL ap you have. But the spreadsheet calculates only for the AP from items.
Yes, the order was wrong.

Also, update with more ZA stuff. Good stuff for casuals, bad for raiders.

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Old 10/13/07, 2:52 PM   #17
Perinon
Glass Joe
 
Undead Warrior
 
Khadgar
Would it be possible to add options to the spreadsheet for ~15 points into protection spec to get the +6 expertise from defiance? I'm fairly sure it will be a dps drop, but I'm curious how much of a drop it will be, and I'm not remotely competant enough to edit the spreadsheet myself.

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Old 10/13/07, 3:24 PM   #18
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
I know you can add it by yourself easily but could you please add some more items for future versions as I think they are quite good for Warriors as well?
The items I'm speaking of are:
Merciless Gladiator's Plate Legguards - They're as good as the Greaves of the Bloodwarder if I recall correctly
Kael'Thas' Leather Legguards - Don't know exactly but they should be quite good for 2h if you're hitcapped and they're worse than T5 for Rogues anyway
Bloodsea Brigand Vest from Karathress and Midnight Chestguard from Archimonde - They're under the top Warrior chestpieces for pure damage and worse than their Tier equivalences for Rogues
Leather Bracers from Rage Winterchill - Good alternative if Bracers of Eradication don't drop for your guild very often

The spreadsheet itself however is great, good work.

Edit: I found an error. Solarian's Sapphire increases your attack power by only 70 in the spreadsheet even though I have 5/5 imp. Battleshout and it's affected by the talent.

Edit2: Survival Hunter debuff is missing as well, it's easily calculated as 1/4 of a Hunter's Agility into AP. It's quite a big difference, our Hunter for example has around 1000 Agility raid buffed.

Last edited by Hidden : 10/13/07 at 3:44 PM.

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Old 10/13/07, 4:56 PM   #19
Gandharva
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Warrior
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Apfelkäse View Post
After getting 9% Hit, woulnd't it be smart getting 23 Weapon Expertise? It eliminates dodges on special as well as white hits
IMHO Weapon Expertise is pretty useless, because most of the time we are able to attack the bosses from behind to completely ignore doge/parry. But it's pretty useful for Tanks to build up more aggro.

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Old 10/13/07, 4:59 PM   #20
Brissa
Not enough rage
 
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Gnome Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
I hate to break this to you but mobs dodge when attacked from behind.

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Old 10/13/07, 5:04 PM   #21
Bronwyn
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Gandharva View Post
IMHO Weapon Expertise is pretty useless, because most of the time we are able to attack the bosses from behind to completely ignore doge/parry. But it's pretty useful for Tanks to build up more aggro.
Oh, hi Gandharva ^^

Not exactly: we don't ignore dodge from behind - just parry/block.

For tanks, it means much more than just threat generation! The chance to get a boss to 0 parry will mean that the tank will get less burst damage from unlucky parries.

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Old 10/13/07, 5:17 PM   #22
Gandharva
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Warrior
 
Alleria (EU)
Originally Posted by Brissa View Post
I hate to break this to you but mobs dodge when attacked from behind.
My mistake. It's parry/block... Not dodge/parry.

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Old 10/13/07, 5:20 PM   #23
Turpin
Von Kaiser
 
Dwarf Warrior
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Gandharva View Post
IMHO Weapon Expertise is pretty useless, because most of the time we are able to attack the bosses from behind to completely ignore doge/parry. But it's pretty useful for Tanks to build up more aggro.
also good for pvp id say but ya not very useful for pve dps

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Old 10/13/07, 5:25 PM   #24
Bronwyn
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Alleria (EU)
It is useful because it represents more than an alternative to HIT, why?

Once you reach 9% tohit, your styles won't miss anymore - but they can be dodged. Expertise will convert those dodges into hits. Since this also holds true for white damage, the amount of DPS you gain from expertise (after 9% toHit) is significantly higher than what you gain from an equal amount of hitrating.

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Old 10/13/07, 10:17 PM   #25
Kloppy
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Rexxar (EU)
Originally Posted by Perinon View Post
Would it be possible to add options to the spreadsheet for ~15 points into protection spec to get the +6 expertise from defiance? I'm fairly sure it will be a dps drop, but I'm curious how much of a drop it will be, and I'm not remotely competant enough to edit the spreadsheet myself.
I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Its _very_ tempting to skill World of Warcraft Europe -> Game Guide -> Charakter -> Talente -> Krieger for example. Imagine the viability to tank heroics with the changes to tactical mastery.

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Old 10/14/07, 4:51 AM   #27
Olon97
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Druid
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Kloppy View Post
I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.
Once you commit to x/x/14 - since you're writing off impale, how much of a drop is it to go further in to get 1h mastery? 10% increased damage to all attacks as long as a 1h is equipped vs. top end fury tree talents.

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Old 10/14/07, 4:51 AM   #28
Darkmantle
King Hippo
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Spinebreaker
Originally Posted by Kloppy View Post
I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Its _very_ tempting to skill World of Warcraft Europe -> Game Guide -> Charakter -> Talente -> Krieger for example. Imagine the viability to tank heroics with the changes to tactical mastery.
I would be loath to do heroics without piercing howl. On some it wouldn't matter much but on shattered halls and shadow labs it can make a huge difference.

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Old 10/14/07, 5:05 AM   #29
Brissa
Not enough rage
 
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Gnome Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Kloppy View Post
I just modeled Expertise into my own DPS-Calculator and for my gear the difference between a 17/44 and a 0/47/14 or 1/46/14 build will be ~1,4% overall damage.

Its _very_ tempting to skill World of Warcraft Europe -> Game Guide -> Charakter -> Talente -> Krieger for example. Imagine the viability to tank heroics with the changes to tactical mastery.
You also loose parry, which to me is unthinkable as a raid tank.

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Old 10/14/07, 10:37 AM   #30
Kloppy
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warrior
 
Rexxar (EU)
Originally Posted by Brissa View Post
You also loose parry, which to me is unthinkable as a raid tank.
I clearly stated I wanted to tank heroics. The tanking ability there is not limited by avoidance but by thread!

Originally Posted by Darkmantle View Post
I would be loath to do heroics without piercing howl. On some it wouldn't matter much but on shattered halls and shadow labs it can make a huge difference.
I almost never use Piercing Hole when tanking and if it is so important to you, put the "free" point from Deflection into it.

Originally Posted by Olon97 View Post
Once you commit to x/x/14 - since you're writing off impale, how much of a drop is it to go further in to get 1h mastery? 10% increased damage to all attacks as long as a 1h is equipped vs. top end fury tree talents.
You will loose about 10% total damage, if my calculations are correct. I am also not sure whether you really gain 10% more damage on all attacks, blood thirst also works when you have no weapon equipped.

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