hi there, i wanted to compare the heartshatter breastplate with the midnight chestguard.
when i made a short calculation without the sheet, it clearly stated that the midnight chestguard is superior.
but since the scale with kings i wanted to proof. overall is like 30str+ 106 ap vs 63 str. (when u put str gems in it)
the crit + hit stats just vary -+1 or 2 so i think you can leave that.
what made me curious is what i saw on the sheet.
@1724 dps
@1715 dps
where is my mistake?
Your right and i think the sheet must in some way be wrong if its only comparing the two items. What you didnt mention was the 10% AP buff from imp zerker.
No MS cycles for DW was ever done. The choices are between the 3 BT cycles and devastate I'll look into adding MS and 31-less cycles.
**edit: Added a WW > HS cycle and a 5x MS, 3x WW cycle, but don't feel like screwing around with imp. MS or imp. WW, so too bad if you wanted to use them with a DW MS build, too bad.
So.... According to the current modeling, the big winners are 1.5 MH w/ 2.6 OH, 1.4 MH w/ 2.6 OH and 2.7 MH w/ 2.6 MH. An interesting trend I have noticed is that it seems like the best overall DPS comes from combos with slow off-hands, particularly when paired with a fast main-hand. I think the reasons are as follows: First, the slow OH does more whirlwind damage, increasing cycle DPS. Most of the GCDs are going to be eaten by MH fueled executes, which will often eat up whatever rage the OH had previously generated, so you don't lose many chances to execute, despite the slow OH. Plus, when it does hit, it will have a proportionally better chance of generating enough rage to fuel an execute. A fast OH will lose many of it's execute opportunities due to not generating enough rage. I want to dig deaper into this eventually. I am beginning to thik fast MH, slow OH has some real potential.
That's certainly nice to know. It means that my current setup with Akil'zon Talonblade MH and Rage OH is not so bad after all . Not so sure it will be worth getting my t3 weapon crafted (the mace will probably give me an upgrade but I think others in my raid will need the nether vortices more).
Optimally you should use 2.7/2.6 in your cycle and switch to 1.5(4)/2.6 for execute phase. Seems that there is no gain to use 2 fast weapons for execute phase, however, I find it likely that if you're on the limit to do an execute each gcd, matched fast weapons will probably be better (better to make 1 15-20 rage execute each gcd than do a 50 rage execute every second gcd).
Really nice testing, thanks a lot for sharing the results.
Would it be out of scope to add demoralising shout, thunderclap, sunder armor to the cycles? While they are not damage, it is the job of some warriors to keep them up while DPS'ing.
That's certainly nice to know. It means that my current setup with Akil'zon Talonblade MH and Rage OH is not so bad after all . Not so sure it will be worth getting my t3 weapon crafted (the mace will probably give me an upgrade but I think others in my raid will need the nether vortices more).
Optimally you should use 2.7/2.6 in your cycle and switch to 1.5(4)/2.6 for execute phase. Seems that there is no gain to use 2 fast weapons for execute phase, however, I find it likely that if you're on the limit to do an execute each gcd, matched fast weapons will probably be better (better to make 1 15-20 rage execute each gcd than do a 50 rage execute every second gcd).
Really nice testing, thanks a lot for sharing the results.
For pure execute phase, I would have to agree that ~1.5 spd in both hands is definitely the way to go for several reasons that I was thinking about. They would have a good chance of still being able to execute even if one hand missed or dodged, for one thing. Speaking of which, I have been thinking a lot about how misses/dodges affect the execute cycle. For normal cycles it doesn't matter, but execute is fairly unique in the way it works with rage. Lumpy rage gen is fine, more or less, for the regular cycle, but as obvious issues with execute, as all us 2h DPS warriors know. Really, the more thought I put into this, the more I begin to think that basing execute cooldown upon weapon speed alone (that's a bit of a lie, I am currently factoring OH crit rate in too) is overestimating execute's DPS. My reasoning is that whenever there is a miss or dodge, particularly with the main hand, the execute most likely will be delayed for a bit due to not crossing the rage threshold. The trick is going to be coming up with a way to accurately model it. It's likely only going to be a few % overall, but hell, I got no orders to test today, so...
P.S. Moving forward, I am going to refer to this issue as "The Execute Problem"
Well, my main thrust right now is a more accurate execute model, and I suspect that will take a while, so I'll go ahead and crank out a release in a few mins. Oh, and I ended up adding a DW MS cycle as well, for some reason I can't remember. Had something to do with the execute problem though.
Would it be out of scope to add demoralising shout, thunderclap, sunder armor to the cycles? While they are not damage, it is the job of some warriors to keep them up while DPS'ing.
Maybe. Demo and sunder wouldn't be too bad, but accurately modeling thunderclap is problematic due to the stance swapping that would need to be done. I couuld probably guesstimate an amount of rage to dump from the stance swaps, and it would probably be close enough. Honestly, this is something that I would consider doing once I finish The Execute Problem, or when I get frustrated and need a break from it.
Really, I can only imagine this being an issue if your MT was a druid and there were no prot warriors around at all, and I find that situation hard to imagine. The only debuff a DPS warrior should be responsible for, imo, is demo shout. If I do add it, it will probably be in the form af a single entry entitled "Wasted Rage" or something, and the user would be responsible for entering a value, in RPS, to be deducted. Not high on the list right now, I'm afraid.
Since a few weeks we run ZA with a protection paladin / feral druid, I'm always sundering / demoshouting and I can definitely say, its not that waste of rage/damage. Only missing some heroic strikes, thats all (group support, LOTP + unskilled WF). So the difference is really small. Though TC'ing would be bad, I think, not to mention when you have low hitrating and missing rage, when stancedancing.
The above link is for the version of Dr_ALLcom3's Warrior DPS spreadsheets, modified and integrated by myself. Beginning to suffer from a bit of feature creep. The top 1/2 is running out of space, big-time. Considering re-writing the front-end from scratch. For now though, it may not be pretty, but it works.
I've also included an early beta version of a tanking spreadsheet I'm working on. Right now, it's just an adaptation of the old DPS sheet, kind of a quick proof-of-concept that I threw together. It's built more around incoming DPS than ratings or time-to-live, though I am looking at building both of those in. Anyone who feels like giving it a look, I'd appreciate any feedback.
I've also got a new idea to run by you all. I am looking at doing an SEP based gear rating. Basically, the idea is to be able to hit a "Rate" button or something, and it would then go though and put a rating on all the items in the database, based upon your current SEP. It's main use is supporting laziness, to avoid swapping gems and items around when you want to get a good idea of how one piece stacks up to the rest of the field.
Changelog:
2/7/2008
Added execute/no execute indicator to gear sheets
Tweaked sub total DPS calculation
2/6/2008
Corrected bug where imp. Windfury totem was not being recognized by Warrior_Sim.xls
Corrected an error in the way "adjusted" damage was calculated for devastate
Corrected an error where special attack miss rate was not calculated correctly in PvP mode
Parsed execute for various OH speeds and remodeled DW execute based upon the findings
Increased DPS resolution from one decimal to 3 in Warrior_Sim.xls
Changed SEP calculations to only use a single stat point (or 2 or 7, as appropriate) in order to avoid issues caused by 10 points of something causing a limit to be exceeded, and corrupting the SEP value
Added SEP normalization to Str, expressed as a %
Changed SEP normalization to be user selectable via drop-down list
Updated "Fix It" macro to be able to fix most errors in "Warrior_Sim.xls"
PvP/PvE mode now selectable on a sheet-by-sheet basis
Added WW > HS DPS cycle to accommodate specs with no 31-point talent
Corrected a minor bug with spec selection
Added hyperlink from "Combat Mode" on each gear sheet to the "Target" section of the Buffs sheet
Added "Rating to Hit cap" and "Rating to Crit cap" to Gear sheets
Added conditional formatting to "Rating to Hit cap" to change color when the build has exceeded the cap
Aarmor and resilience values are now set in each individual Gear sheet
Added a "light" on the Gear sheets that is blue for PvE mode and red for PvP mode in order to help with potential confusion
2/5/2008
Modeled execute cooldown as MH spd - ((MH spd - OH spd) * 52.5%) ***this was re-modeled on 2/6***
1/31/2008
Corrected bug with talent point drop-downs
Added actual DPS numbers along side of the %s in the set comparisons area
Added "Combat Mode" indicator to gear sheets to avoid confusion over wether PvP or PvE calculations are being used
Added hyperlink from "Combat Mode" indicators to "Combat Mode" input field on the "Buffs" sheet
Added DPS indicators to "Buffs" sheet
Added hyperlinks from the DPS indicators on the "Buffs" sheet back to the respective "Gear" sheet
Grim, i tried looking into the crit/ap SEP values , and i have one question before going on - does the cell C7 in warrior_sim in your spreadsheet is supposed to be the average AP value after ALL the buffs (including avg procs from trinkets, UR, etc etc) ? Because if so its awfully low for me (shows 3600 or so). With rough calculations my effective AP in raids is:
2050 base +400 BS +275 rampage - 2725 own ap
(275+)+110= ~400 from hunters (expose + iHM) multiplied by 1.1 (zerker stance) = 440
around 200 str from totem/motw/kings/food = 400apx1.1 = 440
120x1.1 from flask = 132
BoM = 264x1.1 =290 or so ap
so around 4000 ap BEFORE UR. with UR my average ap would be at 4400. entering that value directly into the spreadsheet puts the SEP at expected range
Edit: Typed it just as you posted new version, gonna go and d/l test it
True, if I need to do TC I would just stay in battle stance. The biggest problem are resists, though.
That would really hurt. You'd be losing a good 15% DPS from it, between losing WW and 'zerker crit. I agree that TC and DS MUST be used on any encounter, and am constantly yelling at my tanks about it. Currently I work DS into my slam rotation, so it's handled. Yes, TC, DS and Sunder have to be used. I just persist in stating that the DPS warrior should only do it if they are the only warrior in the raid. I guess my point was, don't take any shit from a prot warrior who is just being lazy.
Well I think the idea is, that most tanks spec dont include imp demo (almost never), and clap (that sometimes fits in). So even with warrior tank you are usually left doing demo (or you forfeit curse of recklessness which is a bigger dps hit) , and clap (that one- we usually just let go, not like we wipe on content because of tank dying anyway - 10% clap is good enough , and keeping imp one is a bigger dps hit for the dps warriors).
Grim, i tried looking into the crit/ap SEP values , and i have one question before going on - does the cell C7 in warrior_sim in your spreadsheet is supposed to be the average AP value after ALL the buffs (including avg procs from trinkets, UR, etc etc) ? Because if so its awfully low for me (shows 3600 or so). With rough calculations my effective AP in raids is:
2050 base +400 BS +275 rampage - 2725 own ap
(275+)+110= ~400 from hunters (expose + iHM) multiplied by 1.1 (zerker stance) = 440
around 200 str from totem/motw/kings/food = 400apx1.1 = 440
120x1.1 from flask = 132
BoM = 264x1.1 =290 or so ap
so around 4000 ap BEFORE UR. with UR my average ap would be at 4400. entering that value directly into the spreadsheet puts the SEP at expected range
Edit: Typed it just as you posted new version, gonna go and d/l test it
OK, yes, C7 is supposed to be total average AP. There has been a bit of talk recently about possible errors in the stat formulas, and I intend to redo that section of the spreadsheet on a line-by-line basis, rather than in one big complex formula. Hopefully that will clear up any issues that may exist. I've been sort of distracted by The Execute Problem the last couple days, but this is at least as important to the integrety of the sheet, so I'll bump it up in priority. Probably won't have anything completed until next week though.
Well possible reason - you use the "guts" from Dr_Allcom spreadsheet right? At some point in the past the input seemed to change in the AP cell from "ap from items" to "total ap on char screen in battle stance". Your spreadsheet still inputs only the ap directly stated as such on items - so no str ap etc there. For example for my gear it enters 766 there, while my battle stance AP (and one I enter in DR_Allcom spreadsheet for a month or so now), is at 1868.
Changing then 766 to 1868 in there, seemed to put both spreadsheets in line in terms of produced dps results, and value of stats.
Well possible reason - you use the "guts" from Dr_Allcom spreadsheet right? At some point in the past the input seemed to change in the AP cell from "ap from items" to "total ap on char screen in battle stance". Your spreadsheet still inputs only the ap directly stated as such on items - so no str ap etc there. For example for my gear it enters 766 there, while my battle stance AP (and one I enter in DR_Allcom spreadsheet for a month or so now), is at 1868.
Changing then 766 to 1868 in there, seemed to put both spreadsheets in line in terms of produced dps results, and value of stats.
Edit: Im talking about B7 cell.
You're right, there is an issue with AP. It is pretty easy to spot when all buffs are removed. I'm looking into it right now. If I can do a quick fix, i'll post it, otherwise it may need to wait for monday.
Please take some more time to write your posts, including my name. I had to read your post three times to figure out what you wanted. In the end you said nothing.
I found the AP issue. When I was ripping out some of the old stuff in Warrior_DPS.xls I didn't realize that I took racial stats and base HP out of the circuit. It has been corrected and the above link is updated. For reference, I don't use the latest version of Dr_AllCOM3's v2 sheet. I just make changes to the one I'm using as we go along. The way I have the one I'm using set up, it does NOT use total B stance AP or anything like that. It uses AP from items, Race and base AP. The error was that I had it using ONLY AP from items, which was wrong.
I found the AP issue. When I was ripping out some of the old stuff in Warrior_DPS.xls I didn't realize that I took racial stats and base HP out of the circuit. It has been corrected and the above link is updated. For reference, I don't use the latest version of Dr_AllCOM3's v2 sheet. I just make changes to the one I'm using as we go along. The way I have the one I'm using set up, it does NOT use total B stance AP or anything like that. It uses AP from items, Race and base AP. The error was that I had it using ONLY AP from items, which was wrong.
I tried WarriorDPS_020808 and have a question. [Solarian's Sapphire] does show better personal DPS for me than [Bloodlust Brooch]. How can this be, because it provides less AP?
I tried WarriorDPS_020808 and have a question. [Solarian's Sapphire] does show better personal DPS for me than [Bloodlust Brooch]. How can this be, because it provides less AP?
While I admittedly haven't looked into the spreadsheet just yet, I'd assume its because of Commanding Presence. 70*1.25 = 87.5 passive AP.
This doesn't account for the on use bonus of [Bloodlust Brooch], but the bonus AP for the rest of your group from [Solarian's Sapphire] would offset that for a bigger bonus to raid DPS.
Now I know what is wrong with my sheet. If you add/substract Str you also have to do the same with AP. Annoying, but I don't really want to change it right now^^.
Just brainstorming a bit on accounting for rage starvation or saturation.
1. Calculate rage by global cooldown. Determine the odds of hits that result in too much or too little rage. I am not sure how to do this for different speeds though.
2. Calculate rage by cycle, and average each permutation of hits. Seems like a lot of repetitive sheet, probably some way to simplify it but I dont know how.
02/07/08, 9:48 PM
. Not so sure it will be worth getting my t3 weapon crafted (the mace will probably give me an upgrade but I think others in my raid will need the nether vortices more). 
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