Littlejuan

can you please link to that thread, I have looked and cannot find it.

If it is indeed true, does this mean -4% dodge means that yellow attacks will hit OR crit 4% more?

 

Graul

I thought the blocked crit was a PvP specific find. Anyway, sorry if this has already been mentioned in this thread, but the two points to remove seem to be Imp Execute now. The spreadsheet is showing Weapon Mastery > Precision > Imp Execute. You'll also not want to put more than 1 into Imp WW as it lowers your DPS. I'm assuming due to overlapping globals.

 

Chimera

 

Bakatora

I donno if I'm just retarded and missing something huge, but comparing my dps with the same gear and same spec on the old spreadsheet and the new has my 2h slam dps drop from 1300+ to 1120. Is there some significant change in 2h dps? Maybe an error in the new spreadsheet? qq

 

Machinator

The answer isnt actually in that thread. They prove that its not 1 table, but there is no result as to how the two tables interact.
Also since players and mobs use different mechanics, blocks crits doesnt mean that mobs can block crits. In fact I dont think they can at all.

"Information is ammunition."

 

Chimera

if you read the thread, they specifically talk about mobs blocking crits.

 

Saburo

You forgot Shifting Tanzanite gem. You may want to add it since It goes quite well in red belt of battle, and T6 if you choose to go for the bonus. Thottbot World of Warcraft: Shifting Tanzanite

 

• Latito

Oh for sure - Any time there is a leather dps item that no rogue wants, if the warrior wants it.. but all means grab it. I was just trying to point out which items the rogues would want (and by how much to some extent) for the warriors who might not know, but want to let the rogues get dibs on the leather gear.

As for the -dodge thing.. yes, you're right Chimera. What I said only relates to white damage. For yellow attacks, the 2-roll system is in play. While the exact nature of a 2-roll system isn't known, it would likely mean that your attacks which are un-dodged turn into hits and crits at a rate based on your crit%.

 

Gruntle

I'm getting similar results as well, but actually got the best result with 1 point in imp execute and 2 in precision. Btw, Weapon mastery as -4 dodge is not in the 9.1.4 sheet (I'm pretty sure), in that version it's only modeled as 4 expertise. The result above was obtained with setting base dodge to 1.6% and 0 in Weapon mastery talent.

I also get lowered dps with 2/2 imp ww. This is because the sheet will use a 4BT/3WW cycle instead, which appears to be a suboptimal cycle compared to 3BT/2WW. In reality this talent point will not not lower your dps, you can ofc still use the 3/2 cycle even with 2 points in imp ww (the 3/2 cycle dps is set to 0 in the sheet if you don't have 1 point in imp ww). The second point in imp ww does not give any more (theoretical dps), because you will use the same optimal cycle. However if you take the human factor into account and assume that people will not always be able to keep up the timing, I suspect that imp ww 2/2 might actually be quite good, it let's you slack a bit on the ww application. Anyway, I think the cycle dps for 3/2 should be calculated also for imp ww 2/2 to give a better comparison of the cycles and talents.

 

dr_AllCOM3

I get Weapon Mastery >> Precision > Imp Execute too. In my version (no need to hurry things ) I have the new new Weapon Mastery and it's stupidly good. Lucky me got a Blade of Infamy yesterday, perfect for 2.3 .
I won't include the Prot expertise talent, as it only works in Def stance.

Stop talking about Two Rolls. Now.
Rogue thing only, go to their thread.

 

Gruntle

Yeah for sure Weapon mastery is >> than precision and imp exec, I was only comparing Precision and Imp execute with weapon mastery selected. That talent is going to be a must in any fury build, it's just too good to miss. May be interesting to see if it's possible to take 2 points from Imp DW as well.

As to the two-roll theory, it might be that warrior specials are also on that mechanic but so far I haven't seen any tests to indicate this (in fact the only tests done on this are from pre-tbc with Backstab , a rogue ability). For now I think the spreadsheet should use the one-roll mechanic for everything.

 

◊ Birdemani

I would not be so certain on that. First off Weapon Exp seems like it isn't fully working on PTR.

Also, the tooltip for Defiance on PTR says:
"Increases the threat generated by your attacks by 15% while in Defensive Stance and increases your expertise by 6" for 3/3

With that wording you could claim it to work either only in Def stance or just in general. I'm thinking once the next PTR build is out that some testing would be needed.

 

Littlejuan

After reading all these posts I wanted to compile all that we know about weapon mastery 2.3 and how it should affect our dps. Thanks to all who have posted so far.

Weapon Mastery will give -2%/-4% dodge for just two talent points. That is th equivalent of 8 Weapon Expertise per point, 16 for two points. It' a pretty potent talent considering the cap is 21.6 Weapon Skill. This talent will not give -parry, but that is irrelevant when attacking from behind anyway.

-4% dodge means you will be landing 4% more attacks, both white and yellow. White damage is on a single roll system, and -4% dodge will function exactly like +4% hit does, but instead of converting misses into hits, it converts dodges into hits. Yellow damage is on a two roll system, so -4% dodge will work a little different, first roll will determine if the attack lands at all(miss,dodge,parry), and then if it is a crit or a hit. (based on reading other threads here)

I am quite sure that for yellow attacks, this means that -4% dodge converts to 4% more hits OR crits (most likely modified by your crit rate). We are accustomed to thinking yellow damage has an 8.64% miss rate, which is effectively eliminated by 8.64% hit. Now you can think of yellow attacks as having a 14.04% miss rate (dodge and miss combined), and needs both +hit and -Dodge to become hit capped. With the new talent in the fury tree, you will need an additional 5.6 Weapon Expertise (-1.4% dodge) to be capped.

 

◊ Birdemani

I was under the impression from the patch notes that it does reduce parry. If you mean that the DPS should be behind the target and should never see a parry, I see what you are saying. But that would be in a perfect world where the boss didn't move, however that isn't so common anymore. Then there is the issue of being one place on the client sideand the server thinking you are somewhere else. I know I am not the only one that has seen a parry from behind a mob despite Blizzard claiming that was fixed close to two years a go.

 

• Nite_Moogle

Weapon mastery is not going to grant Expertise in the patch and will only affect Dodge, presumably 2% per point.

Gurgthock: the time taken to implement the 10 hugs achievement could have been used to make a new 5-man

 

Graul

Your off hand damage will always scale with gear. Imp Execute is a static bonus. There isn't really any comparison.

As for -parry being irrelevant, I disagree. Many people think that the DPS you do on trash doesn't matter, but if that was the case, why are you even in the raid until a boss? While it won't matter at all on bosses, -parry will help on a lot of trash, or any fights that do have easily tankable adds that you end up pulling aggro on. How many people actually consider Hyjal trash and the actual bosses independant anyway? If Weapon Mastery is only going to give -dodge, this is a moot point anyway until they implement really good DPS weapons with expertise.

 

Darkrenown

Not a huge bug, but gems in a "None" socket still add to your total stats meaning if you are compared a gemmed item to a non-gemmed item you must manually empty all the sockets.

 

Graul

I know there was a thread dedicated to it, but I am guessing that was for a bugged version. Does the [Relentless Earthstorm Diamond] still give a 9% boost to critical strike bonus damage, or is it now "working as intended" giving the 3%? Or was it always meant to give a flat 3% increase to all of the damage dealt by a critical and not just the bonus damage? The spreadsheet shows this as being the best meta right now for Fury, and I'm just trying to verify that this is for the "working" version of the meta and what the meta is actually supposed to be doing.

 

Charsi

Although it has been mentioned elsehwere I think that it's important to chime in here: as of the latest PTR build Weapon Mastery is -1% per point and the wording of the tooltip speaks only of Dodge.

 

Machinator

I tested on the PTR a couple days ago with Worn Daggers. It adds 3% to both your normal and crit bonus. This means if you hit for 100 you crit for 206 (100*1.03 base + 100*1.03 bonus). For specials with impale if you hit for 100 you crit for 226.6 (100*1.03 + 100*1.03*1.2).

By my own spreadsheet helms with meta sockets still have a huge advantage over those without. Warbringer Helm comes out ahead of Felsteel and T5 is is just more on top of that.

"Information is ammunition."

 

dr_AllCOM3

It DOES affect white dmg? Thought they nerfed that.

 

Machinator

10/15 04:37:03.031 You hit Servant of Razelikh for 154.
10/15 04:37:05.562 You crit Servant of Razelikh for 317.

I would say so. I believe it was actually a bug that it didnt affect white damage and it was fixed.

"Information is ammunition."

 

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