[Warrior] DPS Spreadsheet 2.3 and beyond - Page 4

Nite_Moogle · 10/15/07, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Reducing the amount of dodges is only relevant for yellow damage and has nothing to do with your hit-rating once you are above 9% hit.

This is at least your sixth post that shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all, and frankly I suspect it's not even worth saying that 1% less dodge is a universal 1% DPS increase for a warrior since you'll tell me it's wrong.

Korlong · 10/15/07, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Paa

Right now i have 20.79% hit in my normal fury gear

Uhhh... yeah.

Anyways, the dodge reduction granted by weapon mastery IS comparable to hit rating, in that it increases both your white and yellow damage.

The trick is going to be figuring out how to take it - i'm thinking take a point out of improved WW and a point out of improved execute.

Graul · 10/15/07, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Korlong

Uhhh... yeah.

Anyways, the dodge reduction granted by weapon mastery IS comparable to hit rating, in that it increases both your white and yellow damage.

The trick is going to be figuring out how to take it - i'm thinking take a point out of improved WW and a point out of improved execute.

If you are struggling to find what two points to remove, remove two from precision. You might lose 2% hit, but you gain -2% dodge (on top of the other -2% dodge) on white hits and -4% dodge on all yellow.

Bronwyn · 10/15/07, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

This is at least your sixth post that shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all, and frankly I suspect it's not even worth saying that 1% less dodge is a universal 1% DPS increase for a warrior since you'll tell me it's wrong.

Not telling you that it's wrong. I'm only stating that you and me can't know whether the -1% dodge will be replaced by a hit or a miss.

If you have a source, I'd be thankful.

Nite_Moogle · 10/15/07, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Not telling you that it's wrong. I'm only stating that you and me can't know whether the -1% dodge will be replaced by a hit or a miss.

If you have a source, I'd be thankful.

As much as I despise wowwiki as a source, you need to do some reading on how the hit table works. Lowering an NPC's dodge, parry or your chance to miss by an amount will result in that amount more hits. This is not a new concept.

Bronwyn · 10/15/07, 11:25 AM

Dear Nite_Moogle, I certainly don't want to appear as your enemy.

There is a thread right here which discusses weapon skill and expertise. Those guys at least assume that expertise will remove dodge and replace it by a MISS - effectively raising your hit cap ...

I seriously HOPE that you are right. But honestly, don't you think this would be rather overpowered?

2 meagre talent points would result in
-4 dodge (especially effective for yellow damage)
and +4 hitrating for white damage.

This would precision look ridiculous, as precision is basically important for white hits (assuming you already have 9% to hit from your gear) and costs 3 talent points for 3% to hit ...

I would love to believe you, but I fear this won't happen.

Fellwraith · 10/15/07, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Nite_Moogle

This is at least your sixth post that shows you have no idea what you are talking about at all, and frankly I suspect it's not even worth saying that 1% less dodge is a universal 1% DPS increase for a warrior since you'll tell me it's wrong.

More regular white hits will cannibalize flurry charges a bit, so it may be slightly less depending on your crit rate, but it's close enough.

Graul · 10/15/07, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Fellwraith

More regular white hits will cannibalize flurry charges a bit, so it may be slightly less depending on your crit rate, but it's close enough.

This only makes sense if you are somehow replacing crits with hit, not simply having more white attacks dodged less.

Paa · 10/15/07, 1:19 PM

Maybe you mis read my post but anyway,

With capped hit you can still have your attacks yellow and white dodged by the boss.. it can only be removed with weapon skill/expertise.

This talent if it goes through as Kalgan states will reduce the chance for all your attacks to be dodged by 4% (huge).

Correct me if im wrong..

and whats wrong with 20% hit in fury gear? I can barely get rid of the stuff all the T6 gear has tons of it on.

Korlong · 10/15/07, 2:05 PM

Frankly it would be hugely pessimistic to assume removing dodged attacks converts them to misses. I'm going on the assumption that it adds to your white hits, as even in the event that this is not what the talent does at the moment, it is surely the intended effect.

Originally Posted by Paa

and whats wrong with 20% hit in fury gear? I can barely get rid of the stuff all the T6 gear has tons of it on.

Well, you're protection at the moment, but i'd be curious to see how much you are penalizing your other stats by stacking that much hit (300 or so?).

Charsi · 10/15/07, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Dear Nite_Moogle, I certainly don't want to appear as your enemy.

There is a thread right here which discusses weapon skill and expertise. Those guys at least assume that expertise will remove dodge and replace it by a MISS - effectively raising your hit cap ...

What possible point would there be in a rating that converted one type of non-damage to another type of non-damage?

Also, http://elitistjerks.com/510537-post87.html is the thread and the post which seems to suggest that dodges/parries are replaced by ordinary hits.

What I would personally want to know is if Expertise does anything at all about glancing. My guess is it won't.

Dralmoo · 10/15/07, 2:25 PM

If it converted dodge to misses it would allow someone near at hitcap (ie Rogues) to increase their hit rating to then convert those misses to hits and thus more damage.

That would be silly, but not useless.

Since the new Warrior talent will be straight -dodge, not +expertise, and isn't on PTR yet, you can't say for sure which way it will work, but it's certainly implied it will convert the dodges to hits.

Paa · 10/15/07, 2:34 PM

Originally Posted by Korlong

Frankly it would be hugely pessimistic to assume removing dodged attacks converts them to misses. I'm going on the assumption that it adds to your white hits, as even in the event that this is not what the talent does at the moment, it is surely the intended effect.

Well, you're protection at the moment, but i'd be curious to see how much you are penalizing your other stats by stacking that much hit (300 or so?).

20.79% hit
2101AP + Battleshout trinket
30.79% crit

Unbuffed i dont consider these stats penalized. I'm not using any hit gems or any hit trinkets,

Darkrenown · 10/15/07, 7:33 PM

Originally Posted by Bronwyn

Dear Nite_Moogle, I certainly don't want to appear as your enemy.

There is a thread right here which discusses weapon skill and expertise.

And in that thread there's a post confirming it turns dodges into hits.

PSGarak · 10/16/07, 2:12 AM

And whether it turns dodges into hits or misses has absolutely no bearing on the original claim that -dodge% is useless for yellow attacks when you reach the hit cap. Hit does not reduce dodge. -dodge% reduces dodge.