***EDIT***
After careful consideration, I am picking the project wherein I was working on a new spreadsheet from scratch. It won't take a lot more work than what I need to do to the current sheet since I've got quite a bit of it already done, so it seems the best course. That said, I thought I'd see if I could fish up a volunteer to help out with getting items into the new sheet. It's not too difficult, but it does tend to be a little time consuming. Send me a PM if interested, and I'll get you set up with the new sheet. Any help would be appreciated.
Originally Posted by Glory
I refer to the working Sheet.
Do Targetdebuffs, that dont really debuff the Target, but increase your stats ws your target scale with Talents?
Specially its interesting for Imp Huntersmark/Expose Weakness. Do they Scale with Unleased Rage/Imp Berserker Stance?
I think they dont. Correct me if I am Wrong. Like now its like they scale with Talents.
Set Flasks/Food Buffs into the Gear Sheet, because you can only Take 1Flask/Potion that increases DMG respectively 1 Foodbuff.
You only have 2 Options for most skills. Not skilled or fully skilled.
If you have once a nil value everything crashes, you have some tips to avoid this?
But over all nice work like your Spreadsheet much Grim13
I've got much of this already in the next beta of the new sheet. Some of the others, like not skilled vs fully skilled is how the original author coded the sheet. I am contemplating changing this, but it will take a suprising amount of work, as it would involve re-writing probably 50% of the stuff I haven't already re-written. May as well think about going back to my 100% new sheet at that point. The stuff I am adding though, does support partial talenting, by and large.
Originally Posted by Rallik
Referring to beta sheet, didn't check previous version:
Adamantite sharpening stones(all +wep damage effects i believe) were changed at some point so that their +dmg applied to all attacks. So a stone on the OH increases MH dmg by 12, OH dmg by 12(not reduced by OH dmg penalty), BT damage by 12, WW damage by 24(12 on both hits), execute by 12.. etc. That's before armor reduction of course. I tested by wielding 1-2 dmg weapons, sundering off all the armor of low level mobs, and testing HS/BT/execute/white hits to confirm. The beta sheet only adds 12 damage to the wep range of the OH, which is then reduced incorrectly by the OH penalty, and does not apply the bonus damage to any other attacks.
I assume that +dmg ring enchants would function the same way, but am unable to confirm as I'm not an enchanter. This massively improves the worth of +wep dmg effects and, most importantly, typically puts an adamantite stone ahead of an elemental stone.
This is rather interesting news. I'll look into making the requisite changes, as it sounds like it could make a (relatively) significant difference.
As to progress, after an interesting 4th of July weekend, in which I am told I narrowly averted arrest on multiple occasions, I am back on the job.
Thanks fors the input guys... I had improved Faerie Fire checked...
As for items... it would be nice if you could put Cursed Vision of sargeras in there. When I put in manually in there it is the second best helm for my dps...
Honestly Grim, if i can advise something. Don't do any new spreadsheets. All in all current ones are "good enough" to determine gear choices. It really even doesnt matter if I use yours or Landsouls or any other out there - the CHOICES spreadsheets indicate are the same.
Whats worth doing is a real, working simulator, which would actually show us some actual "dps results". Spreadsheets will never model rage streaks properly - you can get better sure, but not much better.
Really right now our builds are pretty much set in stone (the only worthwhile thing to model would be probably the slam-dw rotation - everything else really is so analised so far, that any change based on spreadsheet wont happen.
WOTLK spreadsheet - maybe would be useful, but in general I think people want to kind of answers:
- Should I use item A or B, Should i put talents in X or Y? Current spreadsheets answer this as well as possible.
- What exactly would be my dps with buffs X gear Y on boss Z. Well here because of warrior mechanics you need a simulator really.
For more advanced uses *I* personally would like a tool that would answer me
"If I'm in execute range and I have 27 rage, should i wait for swings and do BT, or execute right away. How the answer would change based on my AP (BT damage), and weapon speed (faster = less time to wait for that extra 3 rage)". Current spreadsheets arent even close to answering that, a well written simulator possibly could (depends on way its implemented).
I'll second that. I already know what gear is an upgrade, just by remembering which values the stats on a certain item had in the spreadsheet. I'd say there will be no additional insights with a new spreadsheet.
What would really help is a simulator with certain inputs, e.g. random rage starvation throughout a fight and the different outcomes with a slow or fast offhand. Or like Shha said, outcomes of certain decisions during execute phases.
Maybe even with boss characteristics like high incoming damage, or lots of movement.
I'm in no way capable to program such a simulator, but more than willing to help testing all exotic stuff.
Just to contrast the two opinions above me, I am very much looking forward to your new sheet (I have been using your sheet from the start, pretty much). Unfortunately, I can't use Landsoul's sheet even if I wanted because it is OO only (and it seems a bit over the top to install a duplicate of Office just for one sheet).
Good luck in whatever path you want to follow though.
Also, didn't Dr_Allcom do some sort of Simulator already? I haven't been paying much attention to that so I might be wrong...
I finally started using this sheet as I was asked to respec 33/28 for Brut in the absence of our normal BF warrior. I wasn't performing up to exactly where I wanted so I downloaded the spreadsheet and went to town.
I believe I am using the 4.0 beta1 sheet, it seems that there is an issue with Expose Weakness and gearset2 specifically, if I change the hunter AGI from the default 800 to 0 (we normally don't have a Surv hunter), the other gearsets update their DPS but gearset2 does not seem to update. I'm not the best at debugging excel, so I couldn't track down where this gets added to your attack power in the Sim spreadsheet tabs.
Otherwise thank you much, it's a nice tool to have for evaluating various permutations of gear.
Noticed a small glitch in the 341 sheet ArP calculation:
In [Warrior_Sim.xls]Buffs!H7 (CoR) the sheet refers to [Warrior_DPS.xls]Buffs!$B$36, which is Imp. FF, instead of CoR, resulting in ArP values 800 lower then the actual value. So those who still use that one will want to change that to [Warrior_DPS.xls]Buffs!$B$37.
I remember there being some discussion a while ago about modelling in the ArP cap, I was wondering if that'll be in the new sheet. I think someone mentioned that not working cause the executioner buff gets added as average by ppm, but you can avoid the brute-forcing it by simply using (840-overhang) instead of 840 for exec in the ArP formula, overhang being how much over the cap you are when exec procs. Sorry if that was a bit redundant in case you've already sorted that out, just came to my mind when looking over the SS.
In regards to warrior DPS spreadsheets. Has anyone thought about going forward and making a beta version for WotLK? I was thinking at the very least adding all 2h weps on the item page as 1hs and manually updating the weapon speed for the increased 20% delay, but if it could be done automatically that would be pretty amazing.
In regards to warrior DPS spreadsheets. Has anyone thought about going forward and making a beta version for WotLK? I was thinking at the very least adding all 2h weps on the item page as 1hs and manually updating the weapon speed for the increased 20% delay, but if it could be done automatically that would be pretty amazing.
I think that it may be early enough in beta yet that testing needs to be done on some new things, and additionally, the build would need to approach a semblance of finality. Early numbers suggest that there is still a lot of tweaking that we'd like to see done, especially regarding TG.
First, I am seriously looking into writing a sim. The only thing holding me back is that I know dick all about GUI coding, and really doubt that people want to use a command line interface for something with this many variables. But, that said, I'll be dusting off the 'ol C++ skills pretty soon, and it shouldn't add more than a day or two for me to learn the limited GUI functionality that I'll need.
As to the sheet itself, I'm just gonna polish off 4.0 and be done with it. I'm also looking for a good, consolidated source for post-WotLK warrior info so I can implement that info sooner rather than later. It really shouldn't be too tough to do.
First, I am seriously looking into writing a sim. The only thing holding me back is that I know dick all about GUI coding, and really doubt that people want to use a command line interface for something with this many variables. But, that said, I'll be dusting off the 'ol C++ skills pretty soon, and it shouldn't add more than a day or two for me to learn the limited GUI functionality that I'll need.
Have you considered writing a Model plugin for Rawr? I believe you'd need to familiarize yourself with C# (or maybe thats just for the GUI) but it'd be worth it -- the tool is fantastic. You could spend your time tuning the sim instead of messing around with redundant GUI code.
Besides, you'd be doing everyone a big favor. The last thing folks need is a separate sim for every class they play.
Have you considered writing a Model plugin for Rawr? I believe you'd need to familiarize yourself with C# (or maybe thats just for the GUI) but it'd be worth it -- the tool is fantastic. You could spend your time tuning the sim instead of messing around with redundant GUI code.
Besides, you'd be doing everyone a big favor. The last thing folks need is a separate sim for every class they play.
Rawr isn't that good, in the end it's just another spreadsheet.
Finally, I've almost finished most of the changes. I ended up re-writing about 80% of the back-end, aka Warrior_SIM.xls in the quest for accuracy...as much as a spreadsheet can tell you anyways. I also notice that the macros seems to be operating MUCH faster now that I trimmed away some of the fat and optimized the code, as much as a scrub like me can, at least. I've also expanded many of the calculations so that each individual step is displayed, rather than doing it all in one cell. It takes more space, but it makes troubleshooting and other modifications much easier.
This release is mainly a bug hunt. Anything that looks broken, wrong or missing, please let me know so I can get it fixed. Note, the changelog only lists the stuff I remembered to write down, hehe.
ChangeLog
v4.0.0 beta2
Corrected error in deep wounds model
Tweaked Calculate SEP macro code to increase efficiency by approx. 20%
Reworked output portion of UI
Added Gem summary
Added Meta gem requirements and checking; if the requirements are not met, the gem is disabled
Rewrote chance-on-hit code from scratch
Rewrote rage generation from scratch
Rewrote flurry model from scratch
Re-wrote execute section for efficiency, reducing total spreadsheet size by ~20%
Removed min/max damage calculations, as they were not being used for anything
Cleaned up Warrior_Sim.xls to try and make it more accessible to those who are interested in what goes on there
Rearranged gems, sorted by quality first, then color
Corrected a few issues with set bonuses
Completely rewrote stat calculations so that each step is displayed individually - this should make troubleshooting bugs much easier
Added talents for current set to Calc pages in Warrior_Sim.xls - Again, this should help in troubleshooting issues
In the Calc sheets, Cells J6 and M6 - you're handling haste effects by multiplying weapon speed by (1 - % haste). This causes dps to diverge as your haste approaches 100%, and isn't how haste is implemented in the game. In game, weapon speed is multiplied by 1 / (1 + % haste). This increases your total dps output by % haste, which makes more sense.
In the Calc sheets, Cells J6 and M6 - you're handling haste effects by multiplying weapon speed by (1 - % haste). This causes dps to diverge as your haste approaches 100%, and isn't how haste is implemented in the game. In game, weapon speed is multiplied by 1 / (1 + % haste). This increases your total dps output by % haste, which makes more sense.
Thanks, I did that wrong. Thankfully it only took about 3 minutes to fix, as the form of the equation was pretty much the same. Just had to chanfe some +'s to -'s or vice versa, i can't remember right now. I am medicated to fuck and beyond atm. Thank you Veteran's medical center. Anyways, you're correct and I have fixed it. I also think I found something in the flurry midel I can add that will give DW uptime a bit of a boost. Gotta remember that come Monday when I get back to work
Speaking of which, they've set a new strike deadline of midnight sunday/monday. I may not have much time to work on the sheet. I'm a contractor, not a union employee, so I'm going to work, and probably have to carry the load of 6 people. Weee. If it comes to the strike, I'm gonna try and stay focused on how much money i'll be making, working 72 hours per week.
As a note to myself, remember to model misses not using a flurry charge.
A few things I've found, the relentless meta doesn't work correctly on the spreadsheet unless you have 3 blue gems selected, if you only have 2 in sockets (that are required anyways) it still says "False" in the meta socket.
Shard of Contempt seems like it does not show the proper dps output, as a couple of trinkets that should not be better than it, show as higher dps. I do not know if this is a bug or if the rewriting of all the coding you did affected it differently.
Also, on execute weapons, it shows that execute weapons with double potency do more dps than an executioner/mongoose fast weapon set. Potency does not effect how much damage execute does, however executioner and mongoose do by lowering the targets armor and increasing crit chance. Again I do not know whether this is an issue or just the way the spreadsheet shows with the rewritten code. Selecting a different thrown weapon for execute set weapons does not change dps output either, while it's probably not much of an issue, things like more hit, or more crit can affect the dps execute does by increasing rage generation (from more hit) or execute criting more.
Lastly, this is an issue with every spreadsheet I've used. The undervaluing of fast off hand weapons. Through my own testing, I have never found a slow off hand to be better dps than a fast off hand. Whether or not the damage is being done to aoe mobs or single targets, whirlwinds seem to hit for the same with a fast or slow off hand (around 11-14k with 8 full crits) and the, what feels to me like more stable and quicker, rage generation allows for more use of heroic strike.
Other than these I have not used the new spreadsheet enough to find any other issues yet. If I come across anymore I will post them here.
Has the [Blackened Naaru Sliver] been modeled for warriors yet in either dps spec? I'm itching to see how it stacks up vs. a DST. I've been searching around various forums but I don't see anything definitive posted anywhere. If someone can enlighten me or point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.
With 2*2.6 Speed Weapons you have assuming High Flurry uptime because of 35-40% crit + mached Speed, having
Assuming 267 Haste (As you can Kill M'uru, having all Sunwell Plate items (BS Breast, Leather Gloves) + 4 Drummer in group)
you'll get about 1.8 Weaponspeed in fight. -> 1.11 Attacks per Second + 1/6 BT per Second + 2/9 WW per Second.
How long does it Take until you got the full effect? Assuming 159 Hit (Illidari Shatterer, Endless Nightmares, Shadowmoon Destroyer, Stormrage Signet) -> 15% miss on white hits.
Assuming you only Strike with Autoattack, no WF attacks on MH (Worst Case) You need 16 swings for 10 Hits (over 6 Miss in 16 Swings is unter 0.5 % Chance) 14.4 Sec for Full effect) -> 280 AP during Uptime. 45 Sec Internal CD -> 50 Sec until it Proccs again -> 112.6 AP
Assuming WW BT When you Get the Buff + 2 WF attacks with Mainhand. ( At 0.5 2 Attacks from WW, At 2.0 Attack from BT ) You need 3 Attacks Less + 2 WF -> 5,4 Sec until Full effect, Best Case -> 380.6 AP during Uptime 3 BT with 440 AP -> 152.2 AP over all.
This is only an Approximation for 2 Slow weapons, if you have a Fast offhand, you will have the full effect faster.
I dont know if the Buff Activator Hit already counts as 1 Hit -> you'll need 9 Hits for full Benefit. (I don't know if Simultaneous Attacks count on initial hit)
If the Initial Hit counts -> you will need 3.6 Sec in Best Case (No Bloodlust) -> 160 AP over all. with BL & Mongose + 2 WF Proccs -> 2.7 Sec until 10 Hits ( T0.0 2 White + 1WF 2 T0.0-1.2 WW T1.35 2 White + 1WF T1.5-2.7 1 BT T2.7 2 White) -> 164 AP over all.
I think normally its about 140-145 AP worth for a Warrior -> 7-8 Sec until the buff is up.
If you have Haste pots use it at 5 Sec -> you cant use it to build Stacks up, because you want it as long as possible in the 440 Ap range.
Armor Penetration Soft Cap, Expertise Soft Cap, Resilience Soft Cap, Resilience Hard Cap, Expertise Hard Cap,
Expertise Soft Cap there is a reference error
Is: (German) =[Warrior_Sim.xls]Calc1!#BEZUG!
Should be: =[Warrior_Sim.xls]Calc1!V32
Meta Gem requirement:
Is: =UND(AF104>W45;AG104>X45;AH104>W45)
Should be: =UND(AF104>=W45;AG104>=X45;AH104>=W45)
Expertise: Only in Calc1 wrong
Is: =ABRUNDEN((SUMME(B12:F12))*G12/P87*0.25;0)*0.01
Should be: =ABRUNDEN((SUMME(B12:F12))*G12/P87;0)*0.25
Also in Warrior_DPS Expertise Should be displayed for 2 Decimals
Dodge of the Enemy
Is: =MAX(S71-((H12+J33)*0.25)/100-WENN(SVERWEIS(E2;Talents!A3:BO11;38;FALSCH);SVERWEIS(E2;Talents!A3:BO11;38;FALSCH)*1% ;0);0)
Should be: =MAX(S71-(H12+J33*0.25)/100-WENN(SVERWEIS(E2;Talents!A3:BO11;38;FALSCH);SVERWEIS(E2;Talents!A3:BO11;38;FALSCH)*1% ;0);0)
According to the spreadsheet +hit is valued 40% higher than strength based on certain gear setups, just wondering if this correct or if it needs looking into
Has the [Blackened Naaru Sliver] been modeled for warriors yet in either dps spec? I'm itching to see how it stacks up vs. a DST. I've been searching around various forums but I don't see anything definitive posted anywhere. If someone can enlighten me or point me in the right direction it would be much appreciated.
According to the spreadsheet +hit is valued 40% higher than strength based on certain gear setups, just wondering if this correct or if it needs looking into
How are you getting 314 hit ratnig as fury?
How is heroic damage overall percent so low?
How is crit weight over strength by a longshot?
10 Agi is within 1 dps of 10 Str which is off...
Try looking at it with execute disabled and double check that your setup is correct and refreshed properly. It may be that execute is weighted way too much.
07/07/08, 1:19 PM
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