Shha

Did you actually press SEP button? Before pressing it , the SEP values for me look something like that lol. As for Agi, its pretty much result of crit being so high. I still dont see how execute gets so high O_o

 

• landsoul

WW is better than execute if you have a lot of AP also. Does this sheet factor execute into calculating SEP? I feel I can onlty hit it once or twice if I am lucky in between BT/WW.

 

Shha

As far as I know it has only 2 "modes". 1 is normal cycle of BT/WW/Heroic, Other is just execute spam. It doesnt model executes as fill in instead of heroic - hopefully the new sim Grim is working on will.

As for the whole BT/WW better then execute its somewhat double edged weapon in my opinion. It assumes you dont waste rage by going with BT/WW. I find myself often wasting rage if i BT/WW without heroic, and execute as 3rd priority. Definitely during cooldowns like recklessness, its execute all the way,

 

Grim13

in reverse order:

Correct, execute is like a toggle switch; On or off. I looked into "hybrid" modes, but it's more trouble than it's worth in a spreadsheet. I've been thinking about it in the sim, and I think i'll be able to have it in there.

Yes, execute is factored in to the SEP calculation. It uses the overall DPS number. I just added a manual execute defeat toggle to the spreadsheet that will set execute DPS to "0" so it won't be used. It's in the buffs section. Hopefully this will be useful to those who don't wish to concentrate on cycle DPS.

I'll get [Blackened Naaru Sliver] added in presently.

Glory, thank you for the work, I'll check over all of the issues you mentioned. For reference, I haven't finished the rating cap junk yet, so don't worry about stuff broken there.

talliara, I'll check out the issues you reported as well.


Some things I've been working on:

• Re-wrote DPS additions and multipliers in a step-by-step fashion
• Corrected haste application
• Added Sanctity Aura
• Added Expose Weakness, with hunter agi and estimated up-time
• Enhanced Deep Wounds model to include up-time
• Tweaked Slam cycle timing
• Corrected several miscellaneous small bugs

I appreciate you all giving it a look over. I still have a lot of tiding up to do to get it 100% on point, then I gotta add WotLK stuff in, which shouldn't be too bad since a big reason for my re-writing so much of the sheet was to make it more modular. Easier to upgrade and add to. Hopefully Once I get all that done I'll be able to get to work on that sim.

 

Rauch

Regarding the [Blackened Naaru Sliver]

@Glory, thank you for your analysis, that covers the fury part and is pretty much what I've seen for combat rogue analysis. From what I've read I believe this requires one hit to activate, since most analysis I've seen start you at 0 ap bonus from the trinket. I can apply that to a slower swing speed for an arms analysis, thanks.

@landsoul, yeah, I saw it was on your spreadsheet and it looks awesome for fury, I just wanted some clarification on how it stacked up and how it averaged out over time for arms actually, I should have clarified that to begin with, thank you either way.

@Grim13, that's exactly why I was asking, I wanted to add it's average benefit to your spreadsheet to see how it more or less stacked with arms. Thanks for the update.

 

• landsoul

Yeah as arms you should probably let a shaman or fury or rogue get it before you if you care about progress or not making people mad in your guild =/. For a trinket that works solely off of attacks per second.. I dont know how it would compare to DST / Shard. If it procs you may have a chance to reach a full 10 stack at the end of the buff.

 

Rauch

Yeah I know, I'm sporting a Saphire for progression.

 

Grim13

As compared to Shard of Contempt, I found Blackened Naaru Sliver to be about 15 more DPS when dual-wielding, and about 20 less DPS when two-handing. Dependant upon gear, your mileage may vary. As to a direct comparison of the procs:
____DW_2H_
SoC 085 080
BNS 130 102


I am basing my math upon 10% on-hit, 45s iCD. Obviously the BNS ramps up a lot faster for a DW user. It takes about 13.5 seconds as a 2H, and about 8 as a DW. This little experiment also helped me notice some expertise bugs. It happens when you only rewrite 85% and not 100%, hehe.

 

Glory

I hope for a Trinket that works reverse of BNS.

Each white hit reduces AP by 22 for 20 Hits :p -> Perfect for 2h Warry a bit minor for Ret Paladins and bad for Rogues.

 

Wytryszek

Is it possible to calculate DPS for a protection warrior using one of the spreadsheets? Or any spreadsheet for the matter?
I am asking because I am assembling a DPS set, but I am at complete loss which type of weapons (2H vs DW), what rotations to use and what is the relative value of stats.

 

Grim13

My sheet is for all specs. I include a complete, albeit plain and slightly cumbersome, talent calculator (of sorts) and ALL talents are accounted for. Prot DPS rotations are also accounted for. So don't worry, you're covered for Prot DPS. I think I'm gonna put out the beta3 version tonight, which has a lot of bug fixes and the beginnings of WotLK, so you may wish to wait and d/l that version.

 

Glory

For Prot DPS Itemization it is the same like DW Furry, exept you need less Hit, because all your offensive spells cost 3 Rage less.

Without DW you cant use Devastate (Your Mains DPS ability, you use it All the time when WW is on CD), to dump your Massive Rage you use HS as normal. You should focus on Strength because you get +10% more strength, also your DMG done is +10% with 1-Handed Weapons -> 2 Handed Weapons are no Choice.

 

Wytryszek

Thank you for the tips, I will go for DW then. And I will try out the new spreadsheet when it is available to get the stat values for gear selection.
I assume Flurry got mixed up there by mistake, right?

 

Wytryszek

While waiting for the beta3 I was trying to play with beta2, using the protection set, but I don't think it worked too well. I had a lot of problems - usually after a short while the sheet would become unstable and display crazy values in the SEP box. In principle I was only changing enchants on weapons.
I am not sure what is wrong - could it be Excel version? I am using 2003.
Should I hope this goes away in the next spreadsheet version?

 

Rauch

Grim13, that's interesting and is exactly the data I was looking for regarding the BNS and arms. Thanks.

Glory, isn't the DST the opposite of the BNS? Well, in stat reversal at least, Lol.

 

Megalith

I know different weapon choices are best to find out with the spreadsheets and not asking. Althou its the spreadsheet from grim13 that is confusing me some here considering choice for MH. Atm im using Dragonstrike which has been shown as the strongest mainhand until the warglaive.

The version from late 2007 showed that Dragonstrike was simply amazing, althou that was a haste proc bug it seemed. The version after it was still superior thou to all epic t6 for me and the arena MH was just 2-3 dps better. Now with the betaversions Dragonstrike has dropped a lot in dps thou. Both beta and beta2 (WarriorDPS_v400beta2) shows it being inferior to many other mainhands like Syphon, Kael mace, Vanir fist ect. 1667 dps raidbuffed with Dragonstrike and 1715 dps with Syphon or Vanir fist as MH instead. It even shows that Spiteblade is on pair with Dragonstrike for me.

Has the haste been drastically decreased in value för dps in the calculation? Or is it just the Dragonstrike procc that is either wrong or now more correctly calculated? That its on pair with Spiteblade must be bit odd for a fury 17/44/0 build?

Thanks for a great spreadsheet, it has been very valuable to optimize gear and im looking forward to further versions.

 

Rezarel

I think there's a bug in the spreadsheet where it ignores the bonus haste from the proc. It's calculated but never actually added into your character stats.

 

Gruntle

Dragonstrike, while being a solid T5 option, is certainly not the best option until Warglaives/SWP. The haste is good, but it cannot compare to the dps and stats of BT and badge weapons. This can also be seen in landsoul's spreadsheet. I can't really say if the DS model is bugged in Grim13's sheet, can't open it properly with OpenOffice, but if it shows as being on par with Spiteblade something is wrong (it's a lot better than that).

 

Megalith

Installed open office here and entered my raid buffed stats gave 1833 dps in Landsoul's spreadsheet. That is with Dragonstrike, and when i switched to 2.6 vengeful it got raised to 1839, (1839 dps as well for the cheap and boring Vanir MH). Seems about like the same dps difference as the non beta spreadsheet from Grim13 considering 2.6 vengeful. Might be very likely that Dragonstrike is bugged in the new beta sheets then?

Gotta add, Spiteblade is still better than both Dragonstrike and Vengeful onehanders in Landsoul's sheet. Seems like it's because it's incorrectly buffed with 87 agi thou.

Edit: The spreadsheet of Landsoul seems to favour slow weapons less than Grim13 also? Which makes it bit more difficult to compare.

 

Gruntle

I hope you remembered to update landsouls sheet a couple of times between each change (ctrl-shift-y). Otherwise you'll get completely wrong results. Spiteblade is however indeed bugged in landsouls sheet.

In my opinion the spreadsheets are rather untrustworthy when it comes to evaluating weapons. The effects of weapon speed on rage generation (or rather the spottiness of) cannot be modeled properly, I would treat all weapons within ~10 dps of each other as more or less equal. Just go with what you feel is right. I think DS is actually overvalued in the sheets, can't really understand why it gets such a high dps. DS is essentially a 100-104 dps ((edit: this is wrong)) weapon without any stats, not too hot when compared to badge weapons or even 100 dps weapons from MH/BT.

edit: Liar is correct, I conveniently forgot the scaling part of the damage that haste affects. The spreadsheet model is most probably correct (even though I think that, in general, slow weapons are overvalued).

 

Liar

I always assumed DS was valued so highly in sheets because it had a scaling proc. The Haste proc got better the better your other gear got. Are you sure it's only 100-104 DPS all things excluded? Because that does seem kind of low.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

◊ Hotspur

It also depends on race, as humans have the Expertise of it being a mace added to the scaling haste proc. The verion of Grim's sheet I was using shows it being the same as the badge mainhand fist for a human. So, in theory, for non humans, the fist mainhand would be a slight bit better.

 

Glory

I am on repairing the Betasheet, as you have Changed alot there are many cell corpses who are for nothing I try to repair also reciprocal dependences like

Cell 1 is Cel 3+ Cel2
Cell 2 is Cel 4+ Cel1

So for 600 evaluations (that the Spreetsheet does for DMG evaluation) every time it stacks up and in the end you get dps numbers of 20k or higher if you want infinte (if you have the time )

If i remove most of these dependences (not all possible because Haste counters Flurry uptime and lesser Flurry uptime reduces average haste -> average haste is lower -> more Flurry uptime ...) the sheet wont break that fast.

Still got a fault i did not find jet that the SEP dont work for Haste for Set1 other Sets work :S.

 

Boorach

Just been comparing weapons in the spreadsheet to see which is better between Soulcleaver and Jin'Rohk. Expected the substantially better stats of Soulcleaver to make up for the advantage gained from sword-spec and human racial passive but Jin'Rohk is giving me an 80dps improvement. Can this be correct or have I made an error somewhere/encountered a bug?

 

Apate

That sounds about right. The Soul Cleaver isn't a very good weapon compared to most other options.

See you, auntie.