ArkamisImm

So since the haste nerf, I've been thinking a bit that armor penetration is going to be the new hot melee stat. I've started some rough numbers, and I'd like some of you to critique and expand on it.

I took the mean base damage for a 5 point eviscerate with the 15% damage increase talent. I neglected crits, because of the random element needed, so this is a first order estimation.

The formula I used for a 5 point evis is this:

damage = (1065+0.15*(AP+ap_bonus))*(1-armor_mitigation)*1.15

armor_mitigation = (armor-armor_reduction-armor_pen)/(armor-armor_reduction-armor_pen+10557.5)

1065 is the mean base damage for a 5 point evi. ap_bonus is in there for simple comparison for Executioner vs. Mongoose.

Let's assign some numbers here. Let's assume a rogue with 1740 AP, a boss with 6200 base armor, and full armor reducing debuffs up. So:

AP=1740
armor_reduction=2600+610+800 (5xsunder, faerie fire, CoR)
armor=6200

Also let's assume a mongoose proc is up:
ap_bonus=120

So running the numbers we see that a mongoose proc is worth 179.4 armor penetration.

Alternatively assume an Executioner proc is up:
armor_pen = 840

So an executioner proc is worth about 593 AP.

So executioner > mongoose for a 5pt Evi almost by a factor of 5. I haven't run any numbers on auto-attack or sin strike, and clearly these numbers are going to change based on boss armor values, but right now it's looking extremely hot.

 

• Scheme

It's useless to even speculate until we have some solid, logged testing that'll confirm PPM/proc percentage numbers for the enchant.

 

ArkamisImm

Ah yes true. I forgot to mention that I assumed the proc rate to be about that of mongoose.

 

Emeraude

Unless the PPM is something ridiculous I have no doubt this will become the new IT enchant for Warriors.

 

ArkamisImm

Operating off that same assumption, with the same armor values as above, I took the same rogue with a Talon of Azshara and computer the effectiveness of Executioner proc to be worth 218 AP on a Sin Strike, or a little less that 2x the impact of Mongoose.

Note that these are all instant calculations. I did not do any computations of the effect of these procs over time, or factor in any crits, or the haste factor of mongoose, or anything like that. These calculations are done as if you zoned into the world with these buffs on your character, with a debuffed mob in front of you, and you hit a button. That's all.

 

ArkamisImm

Yes, absolutely it will. But I'm looking at it more for rogues right now. I don't know whether executioner will stack, but it for the melee classes that do not benefit from agi->ap, then it is clear that this will be a better enchant.

 

koaschten

ArkamisImm i would like to direct you at this post: http://elitistjerks.com/501740-post990.html

 

Heathun

When will this enchant be released and where can I get that information, I checked the 2.3 patch notes and saw nothing of the sort.

 

Emeraude

It drops in Zul'Aman.

 

dr_AllCOM3

For my warrior sheet I just guessed, that it's exactly like mongoose.

 

PSGarak

I thought that Executioner was a 2H-only enchant, according to blizzcon? It may have changed since then and I may have been mistaken in the first place, but someone better double-check. It's also important to see if it procs on/affects ranged weapons, because this is a pretty nice hunter enchant.

 

zehguga

Well, Mongoose also has a 2% haste effect, and can double proc. Can Executioner double proc and stack a la Mongoose or Crusader? Do they have the same procrate (everything I've seen up to now say yes, but is it confirmed)?

Also, Executioner gets even better as you stack more Armor Penetration, so with a lot of Armor Penetration gear, Executioner should pull ahead, if it doesn't with regular gear anyway.

One thing you have to consider is, if you have so much Armor Penetration from debuffs, buffs and gear that you reduce the boss' armor to 0, more Armor Penetration will be useless. I don't really think it's an issue, since I believe it will be hard to stack that much Armor Penetration even with Serrated Blades, but you never know.

Have to check buff duration for Executioner vs Mongoose, and whether Executioner has a hidden cooldown or not.

 

• Aldriana

I think this post is more helpful, actually: http://elitistjerks.com/507754-post1074.html

 

xumie

I'm heading to the Blasted Lands now to do some testing with s2 sword MH. With regards to duels, it seems my OH procced mongoose a lot more than the MH procced Executioner.

It's a 15 second buff, icon looks like HWL swords, graphic of the buff looks like a little swirl around your weapon for 2 seconds (kinda like rockbiter but not as flashy).

More info to come in ~30min

 

songster

Edit: superseded while I was typing

 

xumie

It just refreshed itself. No internal cooldown, unless it's less than 10 seconds.

 

Highborne

Tested this with a paladin using Stormherald and no haste on Blasted Lands mobs.

It has no internal cooldown as it can proc back to back.
During some tests (around 30 minutes) it procs approximately once per minute (he has the WWS on his comp).
This was doing auto attacks and Crusader strikes, so if dual wielded and using something like Sinister Strike it will probably be closer to Mongoose proc rate.

Don't shoot the messenger, as I don't have definitive proof, but I think he is currently the only person with it on the PTR.

 

xumie

Wow Web Stats

For those of you that wanna check it out, only 6min of testing. Procwatch lists it as 24.8 hits per proc / 3.7 ppm.

 

Highborne

Do you have it on one or both weapons?

 

◊ Rob

As an enhancement shaman, assuming that PPM and uptime are identical to Mongoose, I would say this is a sidegrade for PvE purposes: Mongoose ~216-246 AP and 2% haste, Executioner ~210-252 AP. Definitely the enchant of choice for PvP, though, where crit is devalued by resilience and the average armor of your opponents is lower. I'll look forward to seeing theorycrafting on the actual PPM and uptime, though.
I think that had to be one weapon as I saw "gains Lightning Speed" which is the Mongoose proc buff.

 

Cos-

He's getting mongoose procs in that parse so I think he has it only on mh.

 

xumie

Executioner on the MH, Mongoose on OH.

 

Riptide

I can do this enchant on US-PvP PTR. /w Riptidex

Free of course.. However I do not have any mats until the ptr copies, come back up.

edit: Forgot to mention I'm horde.

 

Silvos

Correct me if i am wrong since i am not 100% sure about what i will just say , but isnt the armor of most bosses reduced close to 0 with the use of sunders CoR and Faire Fire ? If that is true what is the value of that enchant in pve beyond some enoucnters that the boss has unusually high armor or trash mobs

 

Eledorian

Raidbosses usually have less then 3k armor as far as I know, after 5x SA + FF + CoR.