Mideci

I don't want to pooh poot Circle of Healing, a sensational spell with excellent situational uses in Zul'Aman. But that said, my group killed 5 bosses there last night, included the first 4 that we've killed several times. We've never had a CoH priest for the first 4. And last night, we didn't have one either for our first kill of Hex Lord. With a CoH spammer, Hex Lord can be made much easier. With a Lifeblooming druid, however, and perhaps a modicum of shadow resist gear -- we had some -- it's not necessary to have a CoH spec priest.

If you do bring one for that encounter in particular, two recommendations come to mind:

(1) Have them heal the spirit bolts pretty much exclusively.

(2) If they have the Earring, have them use that once oo5sr between bolt waves.

 

KyraMorgan

First post, so be gentle.

I'm the only raiding healing priest in my guild. When our prior priest left WoW, I switched from my Warlock to my (shelved) priest. Therefore, I am very undergeared (~1500 plus heal, ~195MP5) for our current level of content (early TK/SSC).

My question is this: I'm currently doing *both* ZA and our regular raids... and I really, really like Circle of Healing. Situational, but in those situations (like in ZA) invaluable. However, I'm aware that I'm gimping the raid by not having IDS.

Does the benefit of having CoH for ZA in any way excuse not having IDS for 25 mans?

 

Vihermaali

Greater Heal should be used only for healing tanks, or someone you KNOW will not take enough dmg to die. But about 95% of the time Greater heal is WAY too slow to be useful outside tank healing.

 

ObservingLife

The theorycraft can be found around, but the basics are:

(assuming full 40 talents, all the staple ones in Holy; the change only slightly closes the very wide gap going to 3/5 Emp healing for IDS. Raiding as Disc is another matter, but you're paying a ton of your healing ability for PI & pain suppression)

Assuming 2000 healing:

the throughput healing per second of max rank GH vs max rank flash is 25% greater.
the mana effeciency (mana/healing) is 40% greater for max rank GH vs max rank flash

max rank flash has 8% better throughput than GH3, but GH3 is 57% more mana effecient

The difficult to quantify benefit: Priests are pretty much the only class designed to get significant "out of 5 second rule" (OO5SR) time. Pallys, Shamans, and (tree) druids are generally chaincasting, and Priests have 2 "free spell" talents, which facilitate OO5SR time. Much of the most effecient spells for the other classes (Hots, Flash of light spam, downranked chain heal spam) are very good and effecient at providing a constant stream of healing; while low rank GH spam can do the same thing, it does not have the base effeciency of those spells, and more effecient use of time can result in large amounts of mana gains from OO5SR due to cancelled casts that would result in worthless overheal.

Longer cast time spells with more throughput also make it easier for one to get into OO5SR time: assuming that mr. tank needs, on average, 1000 healing per second in a fight: you must spend 60% of your time casting flash heal, but only 48% of your time casting max rank Gheal. Not only does this allow for additional time to heal other people, it also gives more time to spend out of 5 second rule for more regen. The additional throughput also, if playing correctly prehealing and cancelcasting while regenning, means you can react better to bursts as you will have a bigger heal landing at about the same time as if you reactively cast flash heal.

Flash heal is a great tool, but it doesn't have the effeciency or the throughput to be the best staple healing spell by a long shot.


To address the "GHing non-tanks": this is very doable based on your raid makeup and the playstyle of the other healers. Yes, if you randomly queue up Gheals on non-tanks to top up your local Pallys will likely get there first, or you will possibly just top over HoTs (and topping over HoTs is the Pallys job!). Get a grip on the situation, where everyone is, what everyone's role is, and you can easily use G Heals to top people in situations where they don't need faster healing than that (no urgency), but a renew would be too slow for safety, and you won't often conflict with the other healers. Its not all the time, but a good grasp of the situation allows for this. There are healers better suited to fast top-offs, so flash is generally best used as only a emergency tool when GH will be too slow.

Hope that helps.

 

Vurrin

I disagree with Vihermali. reliance on any one heal is bad, but Gheal is efficient and should be used for raid healing when appropriate. Relying on any one heal ESPECIALLY flash heal for you raid healing needs is the wrong approach.

To use Najentus as an Example:

I use GHheal Rank 1-2 for the majority of my casts. I aim for players that may not be in range of all the other healers, and that don't have lifeblooms or the like rolling on them. I also stay away from the more chain heal friendly targets like Melee. I do react to spine with gheal.

I use PoM on the MT and let it bounce and recast it every 20-30 seconds or so ( more if I see its used up)

I use Binding Heal whenever I've taken dmg to heal both myself and another person.

I use a renew on Warlocks/Sps who need to tap or are using SW, as well as the MT.

I use flash heal right before/during bubble to insure everyone has enough hp to survive.

Flash heal makes up a small portion of the my casts when raid healing. Flash and binding together make up a larger percent but usually no more than 30-35% of my overall healing with 35% being gheal and 30% being renew.

 

Belteshazzar

It depends mostly on the raid. Like Mideci said, ZA is very doable without CoH. (I'm CoH and absolutely love it) If your raids are consistently very caster heavy (pally tank(s), tree heals, lots of caster dps), go with IDS. If you have more rogues, feral druids, warriors, and hunters (even shamans, mages, and locks, since spirit is often a lower priority for them), I'd say go with CoH.

I'll leave the disclaimer that I'm no hardcore theorycrafter. If I've said something radically stupid, I'm sure that will be pointed out.

 

Paracelsus

I found I used flash (or downranked flash) quite a lot as part of the T4/early T5 content. Once you have 2 piece T5, however, I moved to Gheal almost exclusively. In T6 content at this point, I find I rarely throw flashes these days.

 

Kass

As much as I hate to say it (as a COH priest for life), I fully believe the first Holy Priest in progressing 25 man raids should always be IDS. So, on the nights when my guild was learning a new encounter, if our IDS Priest was out of town, I respecced IDS.

Reasoning:
Shaman are highly effective raid/group healers and can handle the raid/group healing role in most encounters as well as, if not better than a COH priest. I'm not sure how many Resto Shaman your guild runs with since you're Alliance, nor their skills as healers, but this is a general statement. Sure, if your guild has 0 Resto Shaman (or they're weak healers) , you might be more inclined to justifying a COH build as the first Holy Priest. Nevertheless, running 25-man raids with 1-2 Resto Shaman, you as the first Holy Priest will bring "more", relatively speaking, to the raid as a whole being specced IDS.

Note: I did say "progressing 25-man raids". This is because once things are on farm status, as gear improves, etc. it becomes less and less of an issue having of "enough DPS" before enrage timers, OOM timers, etc. At that point, you could pretty much run whichever spec without regard to your raid contributions, because very little is challenging on your mana and the survivability of your fellow raiders. When you're on Farm Status, having something like IDS isn't as big of a benefit as it is when you're learning new content.

 

godolfin

Curious to see if other folks feel this is useful, but when I did use the Pendant of the Violet Eye, I simply macro'd it with rank 1 Touch of Weakness. I was able to spam this quickly along with trinketing to get about 12 secs of sturdy mp5 (after ramping it up, 12 sec was all that I had left). Stacking 21 mp/5 per instant cast didn't seem bad.

I don't use the trinket any more since I have different options. I know previous posts felt that this was superior for Pallies or Shammies, but I was wondering what people thought.

Thanks for this thread. There's an enormous amount of useful info here. Will try to find something novel and useful to contribute next time

-SC

 

Chandra

Until recently I've always been a flash heal spammer, and being one of the main healers on raids, this sees me going oom extremely fast. On longer boss fights, it makes things really really hard. Now I have a rank one Gheal on my bar, as well as a 5 (may change this to 4 after experiementing) and 7.

Although Gheal is slower than flash, its way more efficient, and I don't find myself going oom quite as fast. As I have empowered healing due to my CoH spec, I can pull off 4k crits with rank 1 Gheal. On average I'm able to heal the same amount with Gheal rank 1 as I am with flash heal.

If someone is in danger then I would use flash to top them up fast, but I can now see how mana hungry it is and not ideal to use often. Other than that i use pretty much the same as Vurrin uses. Just my 2 cents worth anyway.

That's actually a really good idea! I havent been using the pendant, as my [Ribbon of Sacrifice], and [Essence of the Martyr] just seem better for me currently (until I can get some more T5 content drops).

 

Glasswizard

The problem is that if you spam Touch of Weakness Rank 1 to ramp up the Pendant you might as well do nothing and get ~200 - 300 mp5 (depending on your spirit) extra from leaving the 5 second rule.

 

Belteshazzar

What I've done with the Pendant is spam r1 fheal. Yes, I'm spending mana and I'm inside 5SR, but usually, after the 20 seconds, I'm still sitting at the same (if not slightly higher) mana level, and I've gotten 20 seconds of basically a super-renew on my target. Not at all useful if I'm the only MT healer (10-mans), but if there's concentrated healing, I can help the other healers with an extra pseudo-HoT while making my mana last a little longer.

Granted, after 2.3, mana hasn't been an issue. In my first Maulgar fight, I was chain-quaffing super manas (out of habit), and I had to start spamming max rank gheal, just so I didn't have full mana at the end of the fight. The other disc/holy priest was at like 20% mana and hadn't used any pots.

 

ObservingLife

The arguement "make my mana last a little longer" is misleading, other courses of actions or trinkets, as discussed, would have more effect than the pendant, even with flash1 spamming. A raidwide theorycraft of whether maintaining flash1 on the tank with the pendant versus other actions (say, Inner Focus into Bangle into cancel-cast GH7) would be interesting, but due to the nature of other healers (as well as good communication allowing rotating lighter healing for regen times, especially for priests) I would postulate that you will do better leaving "paladin spam" to paladins. If the raid did need the constant healing throughout, though, you are probably good with the pendant (and probably need to have talks with your healers)

As an aside, flash1 spam is also excellent for keeping up Inspiration, a very noticable amount of mitigation unless you're running a "high armor" druid.

 

Balmenok

Skip to 'Q' if you don't want to read the background leading to the question
There has been quite some discussion regarding stamina and health levels in our guild that we can't seem to settle. Our varying degrees of experiance in content, longevity, and environment have caused, shall we say -- a dispute. Some leveled up and went straight into SSC/BT content so never experianced the early stuff or the strugle. Others ground from the bottom up but may have gotten a bit rusty as to the early content. In this, our fresh guild of re-rollers, we're experiancing people hitting 70, making crafted mooncloth then getting one shotted. We set 7K HP limit for priests but some aren't even meeting that and dying as a result. Their argument falls back on 'this guy in blacktemple has Xhp,' which is irrelevant because we've only killed Voidreaver, Lurker, and cleared Zul'aman + Kara in our very time limited re-roll guild of fresh chars.

Q) What, in your opinion, would you consider the recommended health levels unbuffed for each content level? Personally, I am of the opinion if you keep dying then you raise your stamina to avoid this but some priests, you know how they like their crafted (staminaless) mooncloth!
This argument also applies to our mages when they're AEing and some other folk, but that's for another thread entirely.

 

UnholY_Prince

Primal Mooncloth is garbage for the reason you stated, T4 I find much healthier stats wise. Personally, I wouldn't do the majority of TBC fights without 8k HP buffed, but I know early in T4 content I had to settle around 7.7k, which made me ansy, but was doable.

A dead Priest does no healing, and not going OOM is easy enough with proper out of FSR usage and consumables. Tell your Priests to stack the Stam, and get smarter with their play for their Regen.

 

Belteshazzar

That's why it depents on the fight and the group make-up (and personal gear). I'm one of those priests that still hasn't seen the Bangle drop (God only knows how many times I've run for it). If a guildie needs the run, I'll go and hope I get it, but still nothing. I haven't used the Pendant since 2.3 (and probably not for a while before that too), but if that's all you've got to push your mana farther, you do what you can. I'm a big fan of the Blue Dragon card myself, but I think it's just because I'm sentimental.

 

Vurrin

When I was in t4 and doing SSC/Tk I definitely remember having to switch in staminia gear for a couple fights. Not every fight requires staminia but quite a few do. Also you know priests with extra prot warriors or aff locks can help their hp via buffs.
In any even the amount of staminia needed depends on the fight.

hydross -> you should be able to survive 3 ticks of the Water Tomb with 4 stacks of the debuff. If you can't you'll likely be gibbed before being healing ( assuming healers are merely decent and not amazing) That means at LEAST 6k + enough hp to cover the difference between the amount the first heal will land for and the last tick of dmg. In other words 7-7.5k buffed hp mininium and they will still die if healers don't react to Watery Tomb. Over 9k raidbuffed is the amount to be "safe" even if healers completely neglect to heal you.

Lurker - no real hp requirement. Multishot and the water shouldn't be enough to kill anyone. with more than 6k hp

Loetheras - I would say at a min.you need to be able to eat a shadowbolt + 2 melee hits from your shade, and over 3 hits from WW. So 7.5k hp is about the min. raidbuffed hp you'd find workable.

FLK - Lots of potenial burst here. Its a bit unfeasible to expect everyone to be over 10k which is what it would take o have people survive SB+ totem hit x 2, but surviving a TBW SB and 1 searing totem hit should be the the min. goal. so again 7.5k raid buffed hp is the lowest you'd want to avoid common instant gibbage.

Tidewalker - Ideally you should be able to survive Grave + fall dmg + Earthquake without a heal other than your healthstone, but again not really feasible for some. still this is a fight where I would definitely recommend 8k+for pretty much everyone.

Vashj - I think multishot hits for 6kand the static charge about 2500, so 8.5k+ is about where you'd want to be. imo.

VR - Survive 2 orbs with only a HS so about 8k hp to be reasonably safe.

Al'ar - I guess 4500 meteor + 2500 flame buffet is the largest burst you could expect. Other than add aggro and charge, but still 7.5k hp should be sufficient to be reasonably safe.

Solarian - 1.5k AoE+ 5k Wrath. so 7k or so is fine. just need to be aware you can be wrathed then AM'd but imo its easily healable.

Kael 7.5k should serve here as well. You need enough hp to survive the various minor aoes + the occasional MC beating on you sorts of things, and the beams in phase 5. Could probably get by with less but since the encounter works best when everyone is alive better to err on the side of caution.

All in all its not that difficult to get a pvp necklace maybe a ring or one of the new trinkets, 2-3 items is all it should take to give you 500+ hp or so you need to say alive more readily.

 

Kass

The PMC set is not garbage like someone above stated. Instead, it requires the wearer to consider additional "stamina heavy" items for alternatives when going on encounters where they expect to take consistent or considerable damage. In addition, after looking through your guild's Rank 4 Priests, they could all use most major enchants which will bring up their stamina considerably. Those wearing PMC should consider adjusting their gems choices to account for the lack of stamina.

I personally was not a Tailor and therefore didn't feel the need to reroll professions. However, those that were Tailors from the outset do get a considerable benefit from wearing the PMC set. It just requires a slightly different outlook when acquiring pieces to supplement their gear set.

Most of your priests could benefit from Heroic drops and bad reward items as well.

Another suggestion: Every single healer in my guild grinded out the honor and tokens necessary to acquire [Veteran's Pendant of Salvation]. We were incredibly unlucky with Healing Neck drops throughout all T6 content, so all of us picked up this item on S3 release. That neck if gemmed with a T6 +healing gem is equivalent to T6 loot. If gemmed with a T5 +healing gem, it is equivalent to T5 loot. It's 300hp in one item that can be worn situationally or full time depending on gems and other options. I'd highly recommend that item as a first shot for your Priests.

As a final note, PMC isn't bad by any means and your Priests should not be put down for choosing to wear it, or encouraged not to wear it. Rather they should be educated as to their options to handle your statement above: "if you keep dying then you raise your stamina". There are plenty of options without ditching the set that a Priest can do to hit 7.5K to 8.0K HP.

What you should be trying to do is provide the necessary information as to which encounters will cause spikey high raid damage, which will cause consistent but small raid wide damage, and which a Priest might want a larger stamina buffer versus a smaller. At that point, different items can be swapped out accordingly. Broad statements and generalized threshholds are not the proper way to address the encounters you will be seeing in SSC/TK and beyond.

At the end of the day, the right mob at the right time will still one-shot me sitting 9.5k to 10k HP raid buffed. It all depends on the fight, but your Priests have room for improvement without sacrificing their PMC set.

 

Balmenok

Thank you very much all that answered so far. . It's been very useful. Any further comments are also welcome!

That is very much an issue that caused much argument, I agree totally. Some misunderstanding between 'you need to have this available for fights' and 'you need to have this all the time' as a requirement to go to a certain instance caused quite alot of resistance to the stamina plan. Bad communication on my part which I later explained but the damage was done and the 'antistams' hunkered down gripping the guns of their shinking argument :p

 

Mideci

So back to the Pendant. It gets discussed in the trinket thread, but I'm not real sure it returns much mana at all to priests.

You can only cast once per GCD and the regen is offer once the buff is dead. I know with shamans the buff ticks extra times on chain heal. Is that true on Prayer of Healing or Circle of Healing? If not, it's really hard to imagine the Pendant being a good choice for priests. I'll try to sit and do the math (it's a bit painstaking), but I'm pretty sure it's bad and I want to show a friend of mine anyway why he should use the Earring instead. (He's a mana whore and makes real good use of a giant actual mana pool and a giant effective mana pool.)

 

ObservingLife

Encompassing statements without support, such as "PMC is bad, mm'k", seem out of place here. Grind your math, and show that the only overlapping T4 is significantly better than PMC:

PMC socketed for stam and T4 socketed for royal nighteye.

Robe: PMC is -6 stam -16 int +6 healing +4 mana/5

Obviously T4 is better for short fights, for fights >5 min in length PMC wins out. If you socket PMC for healing and get your stam elsewhere, you have a much better piece. You can hit 8k buffed still using PMC...even wearing crazy substandard stam gear like 2piece tier 3.

If you dig around you can get reasonably calculated values for health needed...I think 8k is the place to be for T5 content, and 9k minimum for T6 content...you can get away with 8500 with spell warding. Get your stuff enchanted, and gem some stam, make sure you got food, and carry a couple flasks for when you really need them.

For all those non-stam fights, as well, PMC completely crushes T4 and is pretty close if not better, than T5 (breaking set bonuses for gear improvements is where the tipping point will be between T5 and PMC).

 

Vihermaali

My recommended BUFFED hp (meaning, you have pw:fortitude, mark of the wild and blessing of kings, plus stamina food. nothing else). I'll give examples with most notable landmarks:

T4-level, Karazhan, Gruul, Magtheridon: over 8000hp buffed to survive Doomwalkers earthquake with ease
T5-level, SSC/TK: over 9000hp buffed to survive 100% weakness hydross water tomb
T6-level, Mount Hyjal, Black Temple: over 10 000hp buffed to survive most random damage. Some landmarks are: Az'galor Rain of Fire does an inch less than 10k dmg with two ticks, Illidari Council has lots of aoe that ticks for 5k.

Those are just recommended levels I had and never had trouble surviving with. The most important thing is that you should minimize the situations where you need healing RIGHT on the spot or you die in seconds. On T4 only thing like that is Doomwalker EQ. SSC/TK has lots of dmg but only Hydross Watertomb has you stunned for whole duration (can't drink any pots?). On Illidari Council you can get hit by 2 attacks at same time at any time, so over 10k hp is very needed to survive the likely event of 2 different attacks hitting.

 

• constantius

Having over 10k HP buffed is, to be quite honest, amazing overkill (for BT/HS).

I ran PMC through Kael, and had absolutely no problems. There was NEVER a situation where I died and thought to myself "if I had been wearing 50 more stam, I would have lived". I put on T5 for HS/BT, and have yet to die to anything that required more HP. The only fight I've stacked stam for in *any* level of encounter so far is Naj'entus, where I swapped out a couple of items to push myself over 9k raid-buffed.

If you die in raiding content these days, it's basically:

a) You screwed up. Gratz, you're dead. 15k crit.
b) You screwed up. Gratz, you're dead. Dot, Dot, Dot, move out of fire, moron.
c) You screwed up. Gratz, you're dead. You don't have 8500 HP.

To get over 10k raid-buffed, you need to not wear any items lacking stam. Any. You can't wear [Teeth of Gruul], you can't wear [Primal Mooncloth Belt], you really shouldn't be considering [Jade Ring of the Everliving], and you probably won't be able to make [Luminescent Rod of the Naaru].

I have [Teeth of Gruul] and [Luminescent Rod of the Naaru], as well as [Belt of the Long Road] (fairly weak on stam), and I run around 9400 HP raid-buffed. It's more than enough. If you die, it's because you, or someone else screwed up. Magically pushing your HP over 10k isn't going to save you from anything.

To the poster above who stated that healers should wear T4 and learn to manage their heals ... I'm sorry, but you're on crack. T4 is shite. It's a very badly itemized version of T5, and isn't worth wearing beyond the helm for a metagem, and possibly the gloves if you can't kill Leotheras. If you wear the shoulders, legs, or chest over PMC or random epic drops that are better, you're really not min/maxing your gear.

[Primal Mooncloth Robe] vs [Robes of the Incarnate]
[Primal Mooncloth Shoulders] vs [Light-Mantle of the Incarnate]
vs [Trousers of the Incarnate]

The only circumstance you want T4 for is if you're seriously pushing a spirit build, and that's moderately hard to pull off with access to only Gruul-level loot. You can do it, but you're going to be using some very weak pieces in slots where there are historically strong alternatives. I haven't done the math since 2.3, but pre-2.3, it wasn't even close as a comparison between a PMC-Mp5 build and a T4-spirit build. Post, it might be closer.

T5, on the other hand, is pretty good. A couple pieces are weak (gloves in particular feel under-ilvl; chest lacking Mp5 is kinda odd), but the set is very well put together. I wouldn't replace PMC until you can grab 4 pieces of T5, and can pick up a [Belt of the Long Road], so you can push a spirit build.

For a Mp5 build, PMC is king. It's truly amazing.

Edit: if you take RoF dmg as a priest on Azgalor, wtf are you doing? You do know it has a max range, right? Just don't stand next to the morons who don't know about that, and you should never take a single point of damage the entire fight.

 

• constantius

A Spirit Gear Build for Magtheridon-level Priests

(NOTE: ignores trinket slots)

Helm: [Light-Collar of the Incarnate] w/ [Sparkling Star of Elune]
Neck: [Teeth of Gruul]
Shoulders: [Light-Mantle of the Incarnate] w/ [Sparkling Star of Elune] & [Royal Nightseye] & 6 Mp5, 22 Healing S&E
Cloak: [Shadowvine Cloak of Infusion]
Chest: [Robes of the Incarnate] w/ [Sparkling Star of Elune]x2 & [Royal Nightseye] & +15 Spirit
Bracers: [Bands of Indwelling] w/ +30 Healing S&E
Gloves: [Handwraps of the Incarnate] w/ +35 Healing S&E
Belt: [Cincture of Will]
Pants: [Trousers of the Incarnate] w/ [Golden Spellthread]
Boots: [Boots of the Incorrupt]
Ring 1: [Violet Signet of the Grand Restorer]
Ring 2: [Mender's Heart-Ring]
Weapon: [Light's Justice] w/ +81 Healing S&E
Offhand: [Signet of Unshakable Faith]
- Alternative: [Nightstaff of the Everliving]
Wand: [Blue Diamond Witchwand]

Assume Base Stats:
- 158 spirit

Grand total from gear:
- 366 spirit
- 51 Mp5
- 1443 +heal

So raid-buffed (assume Kings, non-imp DS, SoR, non-human, MotW):
- 684 spirit
- 179 Mp5 II5SR / 478 Mp5 OO5SR
- 1511 +heal (ignoring trinkets)

You could easily swap the cloak to any +heal/Mp5 cloak, etc; there are options.

Conclusion: this is a moderately competitive build now that 2.3 is out. Primal Mooncloth is still *better* for sheer regen and +heal stats, as the pieces are amazingly well itemized, but this is a competitive build so long as you carry it to its logical conclusion and actually stack spirit. If you just piece-meal it, you're not going to see the benefits.

Anyone who cannot cope with mathematics is not fully human. At best he is a tolerable subhuman who has learned to wear shoes, bathe, and not make messes in the house. - R.A. Heinlein

 

Vihermaali

I admit that almost every piece of my gear has stamina on it.

One of my WWS reports from illidari council show Blizzard doing dmg aroung 4700(-+50) / tick, flame strike 4400-5200 and 1 envenom of 4388 (total of 2k poison ticks before that). If you really have the trust in your reflexes, cooldowns and timings that you won't take a double-hit of any of those then by all means, go with your amount of hp. However, with the need for swift healing there I'm most likely in a middle of a cast when that happens, and I'd rather be able to live trough it without having to cast a pw:shield before they hit.

A good example was when I died because of my stupidity. Agonizing flames and flame burst both hit me, dealing 10,5k dmg in less than 1 second killing me. It was my fault for not casting a pw:shield on myself. I just didn't know Agonizing flames would hit me for that much. Point is: unavoidable damage bursts like that DO happen.

I guess its matter of taste whether to have over 10k or not. Better phrase would be "I recommend around 10k hp buffed".

Its called different tactic. I have never died to Azgalors Rain of Fire. We don't outrange RoF, we simply assign 1-2 raid healers and dodge it. 3-4 melee is out of range killing doomguards, so most of people taking RoF are ranged anyway. We are spread 360 degrees around him so I'm most running pretty close to Azgalor to reach maximum amount of people with my heals. Outrangeing RoF there would actually put others in danger.