Liths

I was thinking in the same lines as you at first, could they possibly nerf baseline spirit regen for people leveling 1-70? Of course not, it'll just be a small mod that won't affect people with lower amount of int while giving people with high amounts of it a small buff. But I've created characters on test realm now, and its a major nerf to spirit regen at low levels. Test realm is too laggy for me to bother leveling a character any futher I'm afraid, but heres the data I collected:

On test:
Bloodelf
level 1 22 spi 26 int. OO5SR: 19
level 2 23 spi 27 int. OO5SR: 20
Human
level 1 25 spi 22 int. OO5SR: 20
Troll
level 1 24 spi 18 int. OO5SR: 17
Dwarf
level 1 22 spi 21 int. OO5SR: 17
level 2 23 spi 22 int. 00%SR: 18
Nightelf
level 1 23 spi 22 int. OO5SR: 18
Undead
level 1 28 spi 20 int. OO5SR: 21
Draenei
level 1 25 spi 23 int. OO5SR: 20

Live:
Bloodelf
level 1 22 spi 26 int. OO5SR: 27
level 2 23 spi 27 int. OO5SR: 28
Human
level 1 25 spi 22 int. OO5SR: 31
Troll
level 1 24 spi 18 int. OO5SR: 30
Dwarf
level 1 22 spi 21 int. OO5SR: 27
Nightelf
level 1 23 spi 22 int. OO5SR: 28
Undead
level 1 28 spi 20 int. OO5SR: 35
Draenei
level 1 25 spi 23 int. OO5SR: 31

I know, far too little data to draw any real conclusions of how big impact it has at level 70, but those were not the results I expected at first.

 

Liths

Oh, and this is new in the spell data files:
References to a Holyform -- "Assumes a Holyform, increasing healing dealt by $s1% and reducing melee damage taken by $s2%. Holyform lasts until cancelled."

One can hope at least =P

 

Liths

Okay, so after collecting some more data I came to the following conclusions after a bit of napkin math. First of all I realised I don't have any clue of the formula for mana regeneration for level 1 characters on live servers and I couldn't find it anywhere. It's most certanly not (spi/4 + 12.5)*2.5 . I got it to about (Spi x 1.33) + 10 , but thats just a rough estimate. Just to have a point of reference I asumed that baseline mana regeneration in the new system is 10 as well. Provided that number is correct, mana regeneration for equal amount of spirit but different values for int seemed to result in that the mana regeneration increased by the same % as the int did.

What does this mean? Again I'd like to stress that the numbers I've used have a very large margin of error and that I made some very big leaps of faith just to simplify things. On top of that this is for level 1 characters, the formula won't be the same at level 70. But, the fact that mana regeneration increased by the same % as the int is quite signifigant. What this means is that each point of spirit will be worth twice as much if your int is 600 as if it were were 300. The number is going to be far, far bigger than the 0.0005 figure that was mentioned in the earlier post. Is this going to be a nerf or a buff? Who knows, it all depends on where they put the base value. However, I'd expect quite a big nerf for the people in blue gear to the point where spirit is worthless. People with high end gear is most likely going to get quite a substansial increase.

 

Liths

Managed to get a hold of some numbers on the official european forums.

I don't have time to try and work out a formula right now, but I think it's safe to say that this is huge buff. With 632 spirit and likely a ton more mana/5s than this guy had I got 526 OO5SR. With 412 spirit he has 538.

 

Vihermaali

If those numbers are true, this is indeed a huge buff. And no wonder in every picture I see of sunwell heal cloth loot there is only spirit...no mp5.

Well, when 30% of while not casting regen goes to while casting mp5, I wonder what kind of numbers we could get with "spirit only, no mp5" kind of gear. Need PTR *kicks eu char copies*

 

hchuang

at around 450 int it seems 1 spirit = 1mp5 OFSR!!!!!!

This is a revolutionary change of the mana regen system folks!!! For people who has stack up on mp5, sorry to say you have to trash them into the garbage because the game's TOTALLY changed. Stock up on elixir of draenic wisom and elixir of mastery folks. Make sure you get your Blessing of Kings before you get your Wisdom and also get AI, Mark.

I kid you now I was able to see some ungodly regen number like 900mp5 OO5SR raid buffed!!!

 

Myul

Thottbot World of Warcraft: Holyform
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Renew - 20ktick
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Holy Nova - 20k heal/2k dmg holy nova
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Mind Flay - 1k every 2s for 8s
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Fear - 2s terror fear
Thottbot World of Warcraft: Shadow Word: Pain - 1300dmg/tick

-> (trash/bos) mob abilties

 

Liths

Yea, it's unlikely at this point, but I seriously doubt it's a boss/trash mob ability. 40% base mana cost and lasts until cancelled? They never put stuff like that on npc abilities. I'll still agree with you that it won't be a talent, far more likely it's an ability you get as part of an encunter in the sunwell or a mob you control teron gorefiend style.

 

Vihermaali

Here are some numbers for ya:

The World of Warcraft Armory
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h3.../newspirit.jpg

...+170mp5 while not casting and he's not even stacking spirit?

 

• Playered

Both from Druids with Intensity:

Stats: 453 Int, 451 Spirit.
OO5SR (while casting)
Live - 338 (136) MP5
Test - 497 (184) MP5
Resulting in a gain of 159 OO5SR, 48 I5SR.

Stats: 605 Int, 386 Spirit.
OO5SR (while casting)
Live - 363 (187) MP5
Test - 554 (244) MP5
Resulting in a gain of 191 OO5SR, 57 I5SR.

 

Sinndir

Hopefully over the next few days we can hammer out some formula's for the new spirit/int regen.

I'm going to be getting to a PTR asap to check it out.

Could the regen possibly be scaling in a non-linear fashion with higher intellect?

 

Sinndir

Could we get multiple people to post what Playered has wrote? Of any Druid/Priest increases you can find.

 

◊ Bekah

I checked over a range of about 100 intellect (550ish to 450ish- 20 or 21 data points, the data is available in the 2.4 thread in the general boards) and plotted it out just to be sure- over that range it appears to be a linear scale.

 

Sinndir

Ok well if it is linear we could compare two of either a priest or a druid to find out the intel coefficient on regen right?

Forgive me, I'm no math major.

 

Norfair

I did several calculations with the data provided here, but I get multiple outcomes. Short conclusion:

The dwarf priest gets for every 100 int 0.28 off his spirit-divisor.
The first druid in Playered's post gets for 100 int 0.39 off his spirit-divisor.
The second druid in mentioned post gets for 100 int 0.35 off his spirit-divisor.

Elaborate calculations:

mp2 = mana per 2 seconds (mana per tick)
SBR = spirit based regen, the regen you get from having spirit and not from "mp5" on gear.
SD = spirit divisor (normal value for priests is 4, for druids 4.5)

For example: SPI / 4 + 12.5 = SPR for priests and SPI / 4.5 + 15 for druids.

*** Dwarf Priest ***

INT: 562
SPI: 410

(410 / 4) + 12.5 = 115 mp2 (SBR).

Extra regen gained: 593 (test) - 427 (live) = 166 mp5 => 66.4 mp2 (SBR).

New SBR: 115 + 66.4 = 181.4 mp2

New formula for spirit:
(410 / SD) + 12.5 = 181.4 mp2
SD: 2.427

SD decreased by 1.573 at 562 int ==> SD 0.28 lower per 100 int.

*** Druid 1 ***

INT: 453
SPI: 451

(451 / 4.5) + 15 = 115.222 SBR

338 mp5 = 135.2 mp2

Difference is about 20 mp2, which is "hard" mp5 on gear.

On test:

497 mp5 = 198.8 mp2
Remove the 20 "hard" mp2, you keep 178.8 mp2 (SBR).

New formula for spirit:
(451 / SD) + 15 = 178.8 mp2
SD: 2.753

SD decreased by 1.747 at 453 int ==> SD 0.39 lower per 100 int.

I used the same calculation method with the other druid.


So either druids and priests get different benefits from int, or there is another factor involved, or the druid's values are not entirely correct. Maybe my theory that the SD decreases as you get more intellect is not correct, since you can't have your SD reaching close to 0. Maybe the spirit is just buffed by a (by int affected) multiplier. In that case, it would still seem strange as the druids had a bigger buff than the priest.

Edit: got a theory atm that might be correct, but have to check with a third druid to see if it's correct, so any extra data would be welcome.

 

Bendyr

Hmm, so I'm a holy priest starting t5 content with my pmc set and tons of spirit. I have a belt of the long road banked, and was planning on breaking pmc when I got either the robe off Nalorakk or my T5 shoulders. However, now that spirit based mana rehan is getting buffed, should I hold on to pmc a little longer?

 

Irise

I looked at Bekah's number and did a linear regression to get a preliminary formula for how Regen scales with Intellect. You can find it here: http://elitistjerks.com/633457-post630.html

 

• constantius

Moved all my calcs to :

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t21280-i...rycrafting_hq/

It's only linear in the range over 400 intellect.

 

Manerma

I have not tested this out myself, but many people have confirmed that the new formula for regen from spirit OO5SR is as follows.

spirit*sqrt(int)/21.45

For example a priest with 600 spirit and 600 int would have 685 mana per 5 while OOC + any mp5 from items/gems/etc.

 

Beyers

I'm looking for input from experienced Holy/Shadow priests on when would be the best time to respec my priest from a levelling Shadow build to a Holy build, considering that I would eventually like to become a raid healer? I was thinking it would be nice to respec at level 60 for BC content, or is it better to wait until 68/69 to get some good gear from quests, or should I wait untill 70 and just focus on getting my arena and honor points for the pvp gear?

 

• constantius

There's very little point on leveling as holy unless you absolutely have to. Stay shadow until 70, save all your quest/instance drops that apply to healing, then respec and start pugging instances / pvp / arena to get gear. There's almost nothing worth stopping for from 58->70 -- you can run those instances as a healer later.

 

• constantius

As an example, I'm currently running ~ 489/214 unbuffed and 675/316 raid-buffed. With this change, if it goes live (unlikely, atm), I will be bumped up to 1057/432 Mp5. Which is ... slightly ludicrous. On a scale unseen before.

And I thought the 15->30% Meditation change was a good one!

 

Althor

If your raid buffed spi/int is 675/316 then your regen would be 559/168mp5.

 

Louiscypher

I do hope this change is here to stay.

I would like someone, at some point, to tell me what the conversion between mp5 and spirit is assuming more than 400INT, simply so i can easy compare kit with mp5 with ones with spirit.

 

• Psykal

That's his I5SR and OO5SR mp5 values, not his spi/int.