Why? There are two T6 level offhands and two T5 level offhands. Not to mention one of those offhands drops from the final boss in a dungeon.

Unless of course you are arguing paladins and shamans are suppose to use off-hands instead of shields. That said, don't forget shamans can wield staves too =p

Spirit is good, but it is not the be-all end-all.

Apologies if this has been mentioned earlier (it's difficult to search for because the words "healing" and "mp5/mana/5" appear in pretty much every post), but how'd you come up with that number? I say that because my method gives me a significantly larger number: depending on the exact spells and FSR%, somewhere between 6-10 healing = 1 mana/5, and this number goes up when my +healing does (because my HPM goes up and therefore the value of each point of mana goes up). Maybe I'm missing something?

You are saying that mana becomes more valuable because you are getting better efficiency? the flaw with that logic is, extra mana at the end of a fight is wasted mana. Therefore, you do not need an infinite amount of mana regen, whereas an infinite amount of +heal is always valuable.

Its funny to hear people complain about the lack of healing MH with spirit.

Simple fact, a MH with spirit is utterly useless to a Paladin and a Shaman.
A MH with MP5 is still solid option for Priest and Druids (while being highly desired by Pallies and Shaman)
Also the spirit change is only now going in. (No reason to go out of their way to itemize items which many would have shrugged at)

That being said, I would have loved to have seen an offhand by now with 40+ spirit.

I haven't hit this mythical "infinite amount of mana regen" point yet, so I don't see what your point is. If a fight goes entirely according to plan, sure, I might have extra mana left over, but that's just a buffer against something going wrong.

There's an argument to be made that eventually you become time-limited, but that would seem to argue for spell haste rather than straight-up healing.

edit: sordee: And [Hammer of Atonement] is obviously a paladin mace, but it still drops off a T6 boss.

In my sheet, I have weight calculations via my formula and also healing pools... I don't really care for the healing pool system simply because it's too inconsistant. Technically, the value of regen increases as one's regen increases--as you approach infinity. Realistically, however, you don't actually run out of mana in most cases meaning then technically Mp5 is "useless." On the other hand, if you dumped Mp5 you would run OOM. Bit of a paradox. Looking at healing pool generally either severely overweights or severely underweights Mp5, depending on one's current stats, which is why I think it's a poor measure for comparing items due to being so variable. There's a thread on this already though, so don't want to derail this one.

Sordee, why would people not complain about it? It's a huge itemization gap with no options in T5, T6, or apparently T7 content. There are tons of Paladin/Shaman mace options out there, so I don't really see what the problem is. Last I checked, it was fairly easy for them to make another item and stick it on another boss--it's not as if they are somehow limited to only dropping 1 healing weapon per instance.

On that note, I wouldn't complain about a newer Spirit-oriented weapon enchant either. Or, for that matter, a Spirit-oriented meta gem. Could be interesting.

A writeup in the beginning of the post about the benefits of professions for raiding might be worthwhile, especially with all the new crafted items in 2.4, and the spirit changes perhaps making regen (alchemy and JC trinkets) less sought after than currently.

constantius, if I could suggest a few changes to make in the original post, I think some of the consumable recommendations should be changed to reflect the 2.4 mana regen change.

1) After the patch, [Feltail Delight] is almost always better than [Blackened Sporefish] when raid buffed.
2) Assuming a decent amount of time Out of the 5sr or a guaranteed Innervate, the [Flask of Distilled Wisdom] will be comparable or better than the [Flask of Mighty Restoration] just on mana regen alone.

I have a question about Bangle of Endless Blessings and Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon and using them both.

If they both proc at about the same time will that give you 115% mana regen while casting?

Does Circle of Healing count as one cast for proccing Blue Dragon or Bangle or as 5 assuming party members are all in range?

No, since a past patch, mana regeneration from Spirit is capped at 100%, aside from specific effects (Innervate and the old Evocate), so them proccing at the same time won't give added benefits. To my knowledge Blue Dragon counts CoH as a single cast, contrary to the [Eye of Gruul], which considers each target being hit by CoH as a separate cast.

Random question for the day:

Which is more insignificant:
A) A pally or shaman with 20 spirit on a weapon
B) A priest of a shaman wielding a weapon with 20 Spell Crit Rating.

Correct, I have both trinkets, the Dragon counts it per cast rather than the eye per target. If you read the tooltips carefully you can see the difference in the wording. I was hoping when I farmed up the Dragon I could use it for circle spam hax, but since I have tested it, it sits in my bank.

Just curious if someone could point me to a discussion on the T6 staff discussion. Also the whole CasterWeaponSwap mod and if it is worth it.

I am questioning because after our guild just bursted through content (Arch kill and up to RoS now) I have just recieved [Staff of Immaculate Recovery].

I am curious as to the comparison versus MH/OH and to [Apostle of Argus]

Yeah, I got both as well, though Blue Dragon has been gathering dust since I got my Earring, which I use along with the Eye most of the time. Then again, I might dust it off again in 2.4, although I wonder what I'll have to do with my mana anyways...


For the staff discussion, [Staff of Immaculate Recovery] will typically give you 35*1.1*1.05 = 40.4 Spirit.

If we then use the new Spirit/Int formula, assuming you at say 600 Int raid buffed, while getting 70% I5SR:

40.4 Spirit gives 0.35*40.4 = +14 Healing

40.4 Spirit increases OO5SR regen by (0.001+40.4*0.009327*sqrt(600))*5 = 46.2 Mp5

This would mean an increase of your average regen by (0.3*0.7+0.3*1)*46.2 = 23.5 Mp5 (20.3 with 80% I5SR, note neither figure provides for innervates, intelligent 5SR manipulation etc, so might end up higher in reality)

Then looking at either staff, it's from these simple maths a basic tradeoff of 29 + healing against about 14.5 Mp5, as [Staff of Immaculate Recovery] translates to roughly 457 +heal and 37.5 MP5.


My maths are a bit simplistic compared to the more advanced spreadsheets, but based on the relative value of 14.5 Mp5 and 29 +heal, I'd choose the [Staff of Immaculate Recovery]. That said, as mentioned before one of my doubts is whether stacking regen will be overkill or not in many cases.

As for a 1H/MH, it's a similar story: you gain about ~60-80 healing typically, while losing some regeneration. The bottomline I guess is how much regeneration you need.

After the patch, I'd probably say Staff of Immaculate Recovery has a slight edge in most cases to the Apostle of Argus. Not sure it would be enough of one to go out of one's way to get a SoIR if one already has the Apostle, but I do get the feeling it's a better piece.

In regard to the hypothetical Paladin -> Spirit, Priest -> Crit issue. We've had a lot of Paladins with Light's Justice, and have a number of Priests (including myself) with the Hammer of Atonement. The fact is, one of the biggest upgrades from a new weapon is +healing, not secondary stats, and therefore people do tend to take the highest ilevel weapon they have readily available to them regardless of its secondary stats. The reason the Light's Justice is generally better for Paladins is simply that it has substantially more +Healing than the Shard of the Virtuous--382 vs. 348--which is usually more important than a small amount of regen one way or another.

For my part, I upgraded from Light's Justice to Hammer of Atonement, which was a 382 -> 443 healing upgrade (minus Spirit) and well worth it, regardless of the fact that it's probably not the best-itemized Priest weapon in the universe.

Noticed this morning by the way that a new ring was added to the PTR from Sunwell trash:



Looks to me like it could well be the best ring in the game for Holy Priests.

It should indeed go to the What's that mod??? topic, but SCT does this.

SCT will indeed give you a yellow Clearcast warning. The sound cue is done by the game itself I believe, although it is shared with the Mage and Shaman sound, which means at times I need to check if it was me who got Clearcasting or that mage standing next to me, if I missed the SCT message.

Yeah, honestly that ring pretty much owns. Comes out around the same +healing as [Coral Band of the Revived] but has a fair bit more regen/mp5 in addition. Those two rings seem to be the ideal combo after the patch, and are both miles ahead of any other rings from what I can see so far.

Odd that it's from trash given how much of an upgrade it is over most other available options for Priests.

Thank you. I do use SCT, but what I was looking for was a priest only Addon of some sort to help aid me in the 5s rule-dodging (i.e a fight where i have to have my eyes on other parts of the screen, it would help alot if the edges went purple)

I figured "Whats that mod???" don't apply when i don't know if the addon exist.
(Altho looking back it might do)

Anyhow - I'll see what i can do to configure SCT to enlarge the "Clearcasting!" text.

I was kinda hoping more people had the need for something like this ;)

The new ring's tooltip doesn't say "unique" (yet), so i would try to get my hands on two of them.

@ JonnyBPriest
I'm using Spellreminder (wowace) for it: i set it up to give me a timerbar directly above my grid and castbar in a noticable color as soon as i get the buff.
Tracking clearcasting this way works better for me than relying on SCT / sound, although the main purpose for me to use the addon was Renew and PoM tracking. :P

I think its perfect that is comes from trash.

As nice as it is, I doubt I will be using a second one in place of the [Band of the Eternal Restorer] any time soon (Not to mention all the competition from the the other resto druids and priest.)