[Paladin] Protection and you! - Page 41

Xequecal · 03/04/08, 5:42 AM

Originally Posted by Chicken

Your assumptions of miss and resist rates seem a bit low. Bosses typically have a base rate of closer to 7% miss, 7% dodge and 14% parry, and the base spell resist rate on boses in 17%. Precision and Weapon Expertise will help a bit on this, reducing the miss rate to 4%, the dodge rate to 5.75%, the parry rate to 12.75%, and the spell resist rate to 14%

SoV is also typically disliked due to the fact that it takes time to get going. Hence why a lot of Alliance Paladins here state they like it for fights with aggro clears: Due to the aggro clear it's basically like you get a full stack ticking right from the start.

Since expertise rating is good for TPS in the first place, I kind of assumed that an endgame tank would have at least some of it. Hit rating is also vital for TPS regardless of whether you use SoV or SoR, and it also affects Righteous Defense and Avenger's Shield.

Pigsypete · 03/04/08, 5:59 AM

Hello..

Firstly thankyou for a really great site thats helped me no end get my Paladin to where she is now, however I have got to a point where I am unsure what I should be doing and looking to upgrade next. I have posted a link to my armoury page if this helps at all and would welcome some advice if any of you guys can assist I would be very grateful.

http://eu.wowarmory.com/character-sh...wsong&n=Anadin

I have been steadily progressing through the 70 normal instances into Heroics and in the last 2 weeks have been the off tank for some of Karazhan.

I have some specific questions that I would like answered if possible.

Regarding trinkets, should I lose one of the +Defense ones in favour of something with more stamina or another stat / effect ?

Is the spellthread patch a better option for the legs than the leatherworking version that gives mainly stamina ?

Should I break the 2 set bonus that Spaulers of the Righteous will give (15% consecrate) as I also own Spaulders of Dementia ?

I have been debating for the last week about 2 belts the 75 badge reward one Girdle of the Protector or the crafted Belt of the Guardian is either reccomended above the other ?

I am also finding that I struggle to keep aggro with certain classes (mages especially) even when I bless them with salvation my general pull will be Consecrate, pull with shield toss, SoR, Holy shield. Is there a better way of doing this ?

I also am finding that in some heroic instances I take enourmous hits I have checked my combat log and they are not crits but can be in the region of 3-4k each is this normal or have I got something wrong with my build or the way I have my talent points spent.

Finally is it worth getting the 2 points in spell damage reduction from the talent tree and if so what would you suggest I drop points from to achieve this ?

Thankyou for taking the time to look at this post and i hope that you can assist me.

Pigsypete · 03/04/08, 6:00 AM

dbl post appologies

Hailsy · 03/04/08, 7:06 AM

First time poster, long time reader.

I wasn't entirely sure where to post this, so feel free to suggest an alternative place to put this if it's not applicable here.

I've recently been racking my brain to try and think of a suitable mob to test out tanking. The idea is that myself, a couple of other tanks and willing/bored/paid healers come along and heal us while we test out TPS both from a point of view of having agro and not having agro.

The tanks in my guild are roughly tier 5 geared (with a sprinkling of BT/MH loot)

I guess the requisites for this mob would be:

1. It hits hard enough to keep rage bars (blue or red) fairly topped up, without needing say more than 3 healers.
2. It is reasonably easily accessable (half hour of killing is ok if we get to beat it up for a bit without worrying about respawns or similar.).
3. The main portion of it's damage is physical, melee attacks (as minimum I have to be able to block).

Optional nice extras:

-It has some kind of cleave and or AoE damage component to help out off-tanks.
-It crushes (I'm not holding out on this though).
-It's not tauntable.

A little bit of background to this request is mainly for practice for tanking situations like Bloodboil. I've found my threat difficult and VERY varied compared to what Omen is reporting.

In fact, I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread so far or not, but I've found recently Omen to mis-reporting my threat fairly regularly. I can only really provide anecdotal evidence, but I've pulled agro off mobs when I can say with certainty (and others have confirmed) that Omen has reported me at less than 110%. Our raid leaders are fairly religious with ensuring that we all have up-to-date threat libraries, so I would hazard to say this isn't the reason.

Can anyone think of a suitable mob or has had a similar experience with regards to threat?

I have read a good proportion of this thread, but if any of this has been covered here or elsewhere just poke me in that direction and delete this post.

Left · 03/04/08, 8:50 AM

You could try the giant demon who wanders around the plateau on the far left side of Nagrand: Reth'hedron the Subduer. He's level 73 and (as far as I know) deals melee damage with some AOE spell damage mixed in. I've heard of others suggesting him for level-73 mob DPS tests, so you could try for a tanking test as well.

As for taking enough damage, if you aren't taking enough damage try un-equipping some threat-neutral pieces. (Using mitigation only necklace? Take it off to take more damage.) If you are sitting right at uncrushable, then taking off gear turns pure avoidance into hits, not into blocks. (The only potential problem here would be when redoubt starts ticking and puts you back at uncrushable, giving you more blocks and therefore more threat. However, if you want to be that precise, try respeccing out of redoubt for the test.)

Sarkan-ZdC · 03/04/08, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by Hailsy

First time poster, long time reader.

I wasn't entirely sure where to post this, so feel free to suggest an alternative place to put this if it's not applicable here.

I've recently been racking my brain to try and think of a suitable mob to test out tanking. The idea is that myself, a couple of other tanks and willing/bored/paid healers come along and heal us while we test out TPS both from a point of view of having agro and not having agro.

The tanks in my guild are roughly tier 5 geared (with a sprinkling of BT/MH loot)

I guess the requisites for this mob would be:

1. It hits hard enough to keep rage bars (blue or red) fairly topped up, without needing say more than 3 healers.
2. It is reasonably easily accessable (half hour of killing is ok if we get to beat it up for a bit without worrying about respawns or similar.).
3. The main portion of it's damage is physical, melee attacks (as minimum I have to be able to block).

Optional nice extras:

-It has some kind of cleave and or AoE damage component to help out off-tanks.
-It crushes (I'm not holding out on this though).
-It's not tauntable.

A little bit of background to this request is mainly for practice for tanking situations like Bloodboil. I've found my threat difficult and VERY varied compared to what Omen is reporting.

In fact, I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread so far or not, but I've found recently Omen to mis-reporting my threat fairly regularly. I can only really provide anecdotal evidence, but I've pulled agro off mobs when I can say with certainty (and others have confirmed) that Omen has reported me at less than 110%. Our raid leaders are fairly religious with ensuring that we all have up-to-date threat libraries, so I would hazard to say this isn't the reason.

Can anyone think of a suitable mob or has had a similar experience with regards to threat?

I have read a good proportion of this thread, but if any of this has been covered here or elsewhere just poke me in that direction and delete this post.

Hey,

Why don't you go to a old instance? Onyxia is a level 73 Boss (ok, she kicks and reduces aggro. Not good for Aggro Tests *g*), but also all other bosses in Zul Gurub or MC will work.

They are easy with one healer and should all work. Ok, you can do Zul Gurub only every three days, but at least you get some nice loot (Try Raptor and Tiger Boss for Mounts *g*)

Raptor:

Should not be tountable
Does Crush (weak (1k or so), but crush
Has 2 AoE Components, Whirl and the "looks at you" thing

We are doing him with 3. Tank, Healer and DD. So if you're having 2 Offtanks or so should die as well.

Yenadar · 03/04/08, 10:31 AM

Originally Posted by Pigsypete

Hello..

Firstly thankyou for a really great site thats helped me no end get my Paladin to where she is now, however I have got to a point where I am unsure what I should be doing and looking to upgrade next. I have posted a link to my armoury page if this helps at all and would welcome some advice if any of you guys can assist I would be very grateful.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I have been steadily progressing through the 70 normal instances into Heroics and in the last 2 weeks have been the off tank for some of Karazhan.

I have some specific questions that I would like answered if possible.

Regarding trinkets, should I lose one of the +Defense ones in favour of something with more stamina or another stat / effect ?

Is the spellthread patch a better option for the legs than the leatherworking version that gives mainly stamina ?

Should I break the 2 set bonus that Spaulers of the Righteous will give (15% consecrate) as I also own Spaulders of Dementia ?

I have been debating for the last week about 2 belts the 75 badge reward one Girdle of the Protector or the crafted Belt of the Guardian is either reccomended above the other ?

I am also finding that I struggle to keep aggro with certain classes (mages especially) even when I bless them with salvation my general pull will be Consecrate, pull with shield toss, SoR, Holy shield. Is there a better way of doing this ?

I also am finding that in some heroic instances I take enourmous hits I have checked my combat log and they are not crits but can be in the region of 3-4k each is this normal or have I got something wrong with my build or the way I have my talent points spent.

Finally is it worth getting the 2 points in spell damage reduction from the talent tree and if so what would you suggest I drop points from to achieve this ?

Thankyou for taking the time to look at this post and i hope that you can assist me.

Unfortunately, aside from the badges, prot paladins are largely inferior with Khara level gear, and we really only excel at Moroes and his room. Gear choices for you should entirely be based on +defense to get to 490+, and then stack all of the stamina you can. You should be able to hold aggro successfully against equal geared players through all of Khara with no more spell damage than your current weapon. You will probably pick up spell damage in other places as a side-effect of badge gear, but don't use spell damage as your basis unless the players you run with vastly out-gear you.

I would recommend going with the gauntlets from Maiden over the T4, as they offer superior block/avoidance/stamina (though get +20 spell damage enchanted on them). The T4 helm isn't a very good option either, the Helm of the Stalwart Defender or Eternium Greathelm will help you far more than the threat from the T4 head, though I think the badge helm is probably better than either of these. And the same with your legs. If you don't have the badges, go with the legs from Caverns of Time reputation(Time warden's legging I believe is the name), as those offer the most possible stamina from the leg slot at your gear level, but the badge legs are outstanding if you can get the badges for them. I still use the badge legs and badge chest for much of my MH/BT tanking. (I realize I just rattled off ~200 badges worth of gear... which is why I included the other options.)

If you can get the Belt of the Guardian, that one is slightly better than the badge one, but either is a viable option. All other prot pally specific badge gear is worth getting. The chest specifically is one of the best in the game for you.

These change-ups will drop your threat generation, but drastrically increase your survivability. Do not delete any of the pieces however, as you will now have the beginnings of a threat set and a survival set. Swap sets as the circumstances dictate.

The size of the hits you are getting is entirely due to your total armor value + bonus % mitigation, which simply isn't as good as a warrior's at the same gear level, and will normally be the same issue throughout all gear levels, and there is little you can do about it. Even with the exact same gear, a warrior simply gets a better % bonus from defensive stance than we do from Imp Righteous Fury. As long as your healer knows you will be taking more damage than warriors, you will be fine.

(As an example, I idly compared the 'max hit' possible for our MT warrior, MT bear, and myself. How big of a pre-mitigation hit can each of us take that would not 1-shot us from full. The bear needs to get hit with a 96,000 pre-mitigation damage to kill him from full, the warrior needs to get hit with 76,000 pre-mitigation damage, and I need to get hit with 66,000 pre-mitigation damage. I actually have slightly better sheer armor value than our warrior, due to luck of the drops, but that 4% difference between defensive stance and Imp RF is THAT much of a difference)

Your threat issues don't sound like they are related to you, but to your DPS classes. Make sure they know that you have to build threat, and opening up on them immediately isn't helping anyone. If you have a really awesome healer, then go with your threat set to help this, but otherwise it is far better that you wear your survival set and tell the DPS to back down. If they continue to not back down, give them a reason to wait... and let them pull aggro on several pulls in a row, and only taunt once the DPS dies. I do this frequently when grouped with people that love dumping as much instant damage as possible. The don't keep doing it for long.

Also, drop Reckoning and put those 5 points into 1 handed specialization. That talent doesn't increase 1 handed damage... it increases ALL damage for ALL abilities and ALL spells when you wield a 1 handed weapon, including consecrate, holy shield, thorns, fire shield, retribution aura, white damage, SoR/JoR, SoV/JoV, etc.... It's threat boost is by far better than reckoning, which had diminishing returns as you gear up better, rather than scaling up with the rest of your gear the way 1 handed spec does.

Drop 2 points from Improved Seal of the Crusader for the 2 points in Spell Warding. Again, survival over threat at this stage.

Hope this helps.

Shailom · 03/04/08, 10:51 AM

Sorry if this has been posted somewhere, I was unable to find it. We have a new Pally tank in our raid and I need to get him the proper gear for tanking the flames of Azzinoth. So I am hoping some of you pally tanks can post a gear list or point me to a thread where this has been covered already.

Thanks!

Gunn · 03/04/08, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Tilted

Leotheras Snap-aggro Tricks

I agree to doing both after a WW phase, but I prefer to do it in the opposite order. AS has 20 more yards to work with, less chance to miss (for most of us), and also hits harder. By using the Searing Totem tactic mentioned earlier, you can stand by it and start your AS cast as he runs to you. If both those hit and he's still chasing a clothy, ask how much they hit for after the aggro drop, just prior to getting their damn fool selves killed.

See I like doing Judgement of Righteousness followed by AS, Only if I'm within range to hit him with JoR. Otherwise I absolutely AS first. My reasoning is if he's within JoR range after WW then it takes bam JoR followed with AS and he's mine if either miss. While if he's in JoR range and I do AS first and it misses, I have to chase him before he's in range to JoR.

It's purely a matter if he's close to me or not for using JoR before AS

Silyth · 03/04/08, 1:03 PM

I have another question to ask:

What is the best aggrolibram on single target bosses?
Have to choose between [Libram of Zeal] [Libram of the Eternal Rest] and [Libram of Divine Purpose].
If i judge SotC myself [Libram of Zeal] should be the best, if my calcs are correct. But what about a retri judging
SotC an me judging JoW for example. Will [Libram of Divine Purpose] be the best choice?

Is it possible to change libram after judging SotC and still get the bonus effect?

Left · 03/04/08, 1:24 PM

Originally Posted by Silyth

Is it possible to change libram after judging SotC and still get the bonus effect?

I don't believe so, and the reason is due to the way seal mechanics work. When you melee to "refresh" a judgment, the game treats it as if you had actually judged that seal again. You can test this for yourself by meleeing something which has an active judgment on it, such as JotC, which also has a spell reflect shield running. I experienced this last in Steamvault, where meleeing the boss through his spell reflect caused JotC to be reflected to me, just as if I had cast it. This was true even though I hadn't judged SotC at any point after the first 3 seconds of the fight.

Thus, due to this internal "recasting" mechanic, I would bet that if you melee refresh JotC after switching librams that it will also change the JotC effect.

However, this should be relatively easy to test for anyone who is really interested. I don't have the zeal libram on my paladin, although I could probably do a minimal amount of PvP and pick one up...

vyedma · 03/04/08, 1:27 PM

Originally Posted by Silyth

I have another question to ask:

What is the best aggrolibram on single target bosses?
Have to choose between [Libram of Zeal] [Libram of the Eternal Rest] and [Libram of Divine Purpose].
If i judge SotC myself [Libram of Zeal] should be the best, if my calcs are correct. But what about a retri judging
SotC an me judging JoW for example. Will [Libram of Divine Purpose] be the best choice?

Is it possible to change libram after judging SotC and still get the bonus effect?

edit: nevermind, I was thinking of a different Libram.

Tilted · 03/04/08, 1:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hailsy

I've recently been racking my brain to try and think of a suitable mob to test out tanking. The idea is that myself, a couple of other tanks and willing/bored/paid healers come along and heal us while we test out TPS both from a point of view of having agro and not having agro.

The tanks in my guild are roughly tier 5 geared (with a sprinkling of BT/MH loot)

I guess the requisites for this mob would be:

1. It hits hard enough to keep rage bars (blue or red) fairly topped up, without needing say more than 3 healers.
2. It is reasonably easily accessable (half hour of killing is ok if we get to beat it up for a bit without worrying about respawns or similar.).
3. The main portion of it's damage is physical, melee attacks (as minimum I have to be able to block).

Optional nice extras:

-It has some kind of cleave and or AoE damage component to help out off-tanks.
-It crushes (I'm not holding out on this though).
-It's not tauntable.

A little bit of background to this request is mainly for practice for tanking situations like Bloodboil. I've found my threat difficult and VERY varied compared to what Omen is reporting.

In fact, I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this thread so far or not, but I've found recently Omen to mis-reporting my threat fairly regularly. I can only really provide anecdotal evidence, but I've pulled agro off mobs when I can say with certainty (and others have confirmed) that Omen has reported me at less than 110%. Our raid leaders are fairly religious with ensuring that we all have up-to-date threat libraries, so I would hazard to say this isn't the reason.

Can anyone think of a suitable mob or has had a similar experience with regards to threat?

I have read a good proportion of this thread, but if any of this has been covered here or elsewhere just poke me in that direction and delete this post.

I don't know that such a mob exists. First off, incoming rage/mana generation is highly dependent on the gear you're wearing as well as the incoming damage patterns. Considering you guys are mostly wearing T5, you're not going to have infinte rage or mana on anything that's easy to get to, provided you're trying to simulate "actual" raid TPS (i.e. use everything you normally would). In theory you could drop some armor on your gearset to simulate a harder hitting boss, but the reality is any gear swaps will most likely change your avoidance, which then alters your HS threat, Redoubt procs, Reckoning uptime, etc. Warrior threat is dependent on block value, and gear swaps change that. And druids primarily depend on AP for threat.... You get the idea.

It's a noble effort, but I don't know that there's an environment controlled enough to produce the results you're looking for.

Gunn · 03/04/08, 2:47 PM

delete

◊ Oggie · 03/04/08, 5:15 PM

Originally Posted by Xequecal

Why do people hate SoV so much? I don't get it. It's simply better than SoR for single-target tanking at any reasonable spell power level. With a stack of 5, the DoT is 50 DPS base with a DPS spellpower coefficient of 0.05733. The extra damage proc is 20 PPM and hits for 7% of your spell power, which adds 0.02333 to the coefficient. That's a total coefficient of 0.08066 vs. SoRs coefficient of 0.092. You would need over 2000 spell power for SoR to overtake SoV. You similarly need 1200 spell power for JoR to overtake JoV.

Assuming 500 spellpower, a 1.8 speed weapon, 10% melee miss/dodge/parry, and 10% resist rate, SoR does 65.25 DPS. The SoV DoT does 78.665 DPS. To lose the stack of 5, you need to not proc the DoT 8 times in a row. The chance of proccing it is (0.6)(0.9)(0.9), or 0.486. The chance of NOT proccing it is therefore 0.514, and the chance of not proccing it 8 consecutive times is 0.514^8, or 0.004872. That's a less than 0.5% chance to lose the stack. On top of the DoT, the instant proc adds 5.67 DPS, for a total of 84.335 DPS. It's MUCH higher than SoR. At the same time, JoV is doing 101.875 DPS, while JoR does 72.375 DPS. These two seals aren't even close, SoV is better even if you assume the 5-stack is only active 80% of the time.

In the nicest way possible, your math is wrong. Sorry. At about 900 +damage (including JotC, why do people -always- forget the 219 from that? Or the damage from oils/improved spirit?), SoR pulls way ahead because of the judgement coefficent being, well, high. Don't forget that the judgement and application resist seperately.

And for those who think I'm crazy, here's some math:

SoV:
wpnSpeed= weapon speed
bAvoid = Boss Parry + Boss Dodge + Player Miss
dam = +damage
time = Fight Length
spHit = Spell Hit %
sStack = Avg. swings till full stack
bProc = Base proc rate (assumes 20 PPM)
procC = Actual proc rate
pFall= probability (per swing) for stack to fall

bProc= 20 * (wpnSpeed/60)

procC = (1-bAvoid)(max(0, 0.17- spHit))(bProc)

sStack = 5/procC

pFall = (1-procC)^(mod(15/wpnSpeed))

Probability that it will fall off at least once:
(1-pFall)^(mod((time-sStack)/wpnSpeed)

Average number of times it will fall off:
pFall(mod((time-sStack)/wpnSpeed)

Plug in the numbers, and get the chance it'll drop off and how long it takes to build up. For me personally I have a 0.000027 or so chance to not have SoR beat SoV on a fight like VR. Yeah, let's get right on that.

This math could be horribly wrong. I'm frankly not that good at anything to do with nontrivial math. If anyone sees an error -please- let me know.

Honestly my hatred of SoV has climbed to new levels on Illidan, where I can with 7 expertise stand directly behind him and -still have a whole stack fall off continiously-. !@$@!$@!$@! On PoJ, though, I'm curious where you find points for it. I wouldn't dream of really tanking with this current spec (heroics don't count) and really wish I could fit another half dozen points into my spec. Or that we raided with a retadin so I could not take imp JotC.

• Chicken · 03/04/08, 5:23 PM

I personally dropped Spell Warding and one point out of Anticipation for it. A popular choice for those who don't mind losing Blessing of Kings is dropping Blessing of Kings and Spell Warding.

Improved Judgement, Improved Judgement of the Crusader, and One-Handed Weapon Specialization are other likely sources to cannibalize the points out of. Improved Judgement is really a case of whether or not you're used to having it. Improved Judgement of the Crusader is harder to judge; obviously you're making your raid miss out on a good chunk of DPS by not speccing it if you're using Judgement of the Crusader. One-Handed Weapon Specialization is a great talent, it's also fairly easy to quantify whether you consider 1% extra threat worth 5% movement speed and 1% chance to resist.

I've dropped the points out Anticipation and Spell Warding because I have extremely excessive defense as is, the four defense less is slightly annoying for resist fights, but I have good trinkets I can swap in to make up for it. I've actually enchanted my FR chest with +15 resilience to cover crit immunity for Flames of Azzinoth tanking. Spell Warding I mostly notice being gone on fights with very excessively large magical damage spikes. The only of which I can honestly say it's a large and noticable difference being High Warlord Naj'entus.

Xequecal · 03/04/08, 11:56 PM

Originally Posted by Oggie

In the nicest way possible, your math is wrong. Sorry. At about 900 +damage (including JotC, why do people -always- forget the 219 from that? Or the damage from oils/improved spirit?), SoR pulls way ahead because of the judgement coefficent being, well, high. Don't forget that the judgement and application resist seperately.

And for those who think I'm crazy, here's some math:

SoV:
wpnSpeed= weapon speed
bAvoid = Boss Parry + Boss Dodge + Player Miss
dam = +damage
time = Fight Length
spHit = Spell Hit %
sStack = Avg. swings till full stack
bProc = Base proc rate (assumes 20 PPM)
procC = Actual proc rate
pFall= probability (per swing) for stack to fall

bProc= 20 * (wpnSpeed/60)

procC = (1-bAvoid)(max(0, 0.17- spHit))(bProc)

sStack = 5/procC

pFall = (1-procC)^(mod(15/wpnSpeed))

Probability that it will fall off at least once:
(1-pFall)^(mod((time-sStack)/wpnSpeed)

Average number of times it will fall off:
pFall(mod((time-sStack)/wpnSpeed)

Plug in the numbers, and get the chance it'll drop off and how long it takes to build up. For me personally I have a 0.000027 or so chance to not have SoR beat SoV on a fight like VR. Yeah, let's get right on that.

This math could be horribly wrong. I'm frankly not that good at anything to do with nontrivial math. If anyone sees an error -please- let me know.

Honestly my hatred of SoV has climbed to new levels on Illidan, where I can with 7 expertise stand directly behind him and -still have a whole stack fall off continiously-. !@$@!$@!$@! On PoJ, though, I'm curious where you find points for it. I wouldn't dream of really tanking with this current spec (heroics don't count) and really wish I could fit another half dozen points into my spec. Or that we raided with a retadin so I could not take imp JotC.

- Judgement of Vengeance on a 5-stack is 600 base with a 43% coefficient. Judgement of Righteousness is 206-220 with a 73% coefficient. To make up 390 damage with a 0.3 coefficient difference requires 1300 spell power, or 1080 with Crusader up on the mob.
- Your "probability it will fall off at least once" equation makes no sense at all. With procC = 0.486, pFall is 0.004872. Those are the same two numbers I posted originally. First, what is time in? Minutes? Seconds? Also, the (time - sStack) part is beyond my understanding. sStack is 10.2. The equation makes no sense regardless of whether you use seconds or minutes for time, if you use minutes you get a negative number and the whole thing is nonsensical, if you use seconds the chance of it falling off is ridiculously tiny, obviously far lower than the actual chance.
- It IS likely that SoV falls off at least once in a fight duration? So what? Its damage output is so much higher, it still outperforms SoR by a huge margin.

Oxudes · 03/05/08, 7:42 AM

I've heared that some very good prot paladins can solo normal BM - how much of that is true, and how good is "good geared"? I'm wondering what you actually need (I've heared about needing passive 100% migitation) and how much of it you can actually solo - only trash or bosses as well?

I know it might not be the right thread, but I'd appreciate any information on this.

◊ Oggie · 03/05/08, 9:28 AM

Originally Posted by Xequecal

- Judgement of Vengeance on a 5-stack is 600 base with a 43% coefficient. Judgement of Righteousness is 206-220 with a 73% coefficient. To make up 390 damage with a 0.3 coefficient difference requires 1300 spell power, or 1080 with Crusader up on the mob.
- Your "probability it will fall off at least once" equation makes no sense at all. With procC = 0.486, pFall is 0.004872. Those are the same two numbers I posted originally. First, what is time in? Minutes? Seconds? Also, the (time - sStack) part is beyond my understanding. sStack is 10.2. The equation makes no sense regardless of whether you use seconds or minutes for time, if you use minutes you get a negative number and the whole thing is nonsensical, if you use seconds the chance of it falling off is ridiculously tiny, obviously far lower than the actual chance.
- It IS likely that SoV falls off at least once in a fight duration? So what? Its damage output is so much higher, it still outperforms SoR by a huge margin.

I'd honestly prefer not to shit up Chicken's nice thread here, but if you'd like to continue this in PMs, mind tossing me your stats? Armory has a way of being randomly incorrect but (and this is mild arrogance based purely on a glance at armory) I outgear you, and I got a procC based upon my last Gorefiend MTing experince of 0.35, so one of us is doing something horribly wrong. All times are in seconds, of course.

I'd honestly like to talk/argue this out with you till one of us is wrong, but I don't really wanna have 10-20 posts between us talking about it, better to resolve over PMs then come back saying which of us is right, if that's okay with you.