Denogran

Ya, I started doing that, but eating it a coupla time to stun->wtfown->mobs running everywhere made me appreciate cc when first doing it. If you consecrate to start the priests can't shackle, but if you Holy Wrath, you'll have enough aggro to walk them back without a dot ticking. The one thing we noticed though, is that you'll want a tank (not you) to stand in front of the priests who should be off to one side of the entrance. That way when the mobs target the first thing they see, it'll be a tank, and they won't 2-shot your priests.

As you get better geared, having all 6 aboms wailing on you for a second or two won't be the end of the world, and it'll be nice to have everything clumped up in order to speed up the run. Starting out though, safe is certainly better than sorry. In my experience, a dead pally tank is nearly always a wipe.

 

Dutcherino

This post is in regards to the 2.4 Tanking Badge gear. First and foremost, sorry if this question has already been answered. I have searched rigorously and not found an answer to the question at hand.

I was wondering what the general consensus was towards the new 2.4 Badge gear. I understand that the lackluster itemization for 'spell-hit' is frowned upon but does that justify forfeiting the Paladin tanking gear in favor of the Warrior tanking gear? I also understand that the gear should be purchased based on necessity of avoidance stats, stam, etc. I have not yet sourced a single authoritative source which could recommend, above all, the most worthy pieces.

For reference my paladin is geared with two piece t5 and previous badge gear, with misc Kara/Gruul/SSC/TK epics, and is currently finishing MH before heading into BT.

 

kalbear

The 2.4 legs are absolutely excellent in terms of itemization for a paladin. They're the model that all other pieces should follow. I strongly recommend getting them.

If you've otherwise got the badge gear from before - especially the chestguard - not a whole lot recommends itself.

 

Gunn

Hyjal bosses 3 & 4 waves
I stand outside the gate, consecrate when they get within 30yds and then run around the corner by the tower. The mobs run through the consecrate and by LOS run directly to me clumped together. At this point my consecrate is ready to go again. 3 tanks pull abombs off me or other mobs. But keep them clumped near the LOS point for max AOE damage.

Itemization is normal AOE tanking
with the exception of on Banshee/necromancer phases I do wear the Shadow resist badge and Cape, I also have the priest shadow resist buff on me for all the pulls. I make sure I'm at defense 490 or above.
Like others have mentioned I use [Free Action Potion] on any wave that includes 4 or more Abominations. I time it to be used exactly when they get to me. After it wears off I use HoJ on an abom targeted on me, and end with a trinket if needed.

 

Cathela

Glad to see they fixed the incorrect armor on things like [Inscribed Legplates of the Aldor] and [Hard Khorium Goggles]. Makes these items much better upgrades.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Draegan

This is probably the best place to ask this. I just hit 64 on my Prot-Paladin. When I trained Seal of Blood something interesting happened. I automatically trained 5 ranks of Seal of Command at the same time. I only have 10 points in Ret for Deflection. I don't think this is normal.

Anyone else see this?

Meh.

 

Lyconn

2.4 made it so that you don't have to re-train any talents that you retrieve from your spec. I.E. if you didn't have seal of command, then you specced for it, you'd automatically get all the ranks of it without having to pay for it. Blizz used to make you pay for each rank of the spell EVERY time you respecced.

 

Draegan

Let me put it this way, right now in game I just casted Seal of Command without having the talent.

I have 10 points in Ret (which is the pre-req) but 0 in the third tier. I can now cast Seal of Command.

Meh.

 

Cathela

Then that's a bug. It's probably related to the change Lyconn is describing.

My guess is you'll lose your "free" SoC the first time you respec.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Smear

If only the reverse were true. That would make for quite a few happy Alliance paladins.

 

• Chicken

As I mentioned yesterday I've revised the Enchants section of the Protection Paladin article. I'll likely convert the Trinkets section to a comparable format, with separate tables for Stamina, Damage Reduction and Avoidance trinkets. Unlike the enchants section some trinkets will most likely be included under multiple tables.

While doing so I'll also update it to include the new 2.4 trinkets.

The remaining gear sections will be kept in a comparable state to as they are now, though still rewritten to include new options. Unlike the trinkets and enchants, I think giving some guidelines is better for these parts, because it's typically simpler to decide between because there's a smaller selection of available choices per tier, while for trinkets especially the amount of choices you have doesn't change much between tiers and the upgrades aren't largely "Get the highest item level item in this slot". I also think it's better covered by a spreadsheet or simulator, I believe there is (or was) a Protection Paladin version of Rawr in the works, unlike my rather static advice those can take into account the gear you already have.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

kalbear

That's kind of an awesome bug.

2.4 let you not have to retrain skills that you had already trained previously. If you had never had seal of command, it would force you to train it if you had not done so before this. You must always train your skills once. But you only have to do it once.

 

Redcape

I find that the best strategy for tanking Hyjal waves is somewhat different from what lots of people describe here. I found that Holy Wrath was not a very effective way to pick up the mobs and concentrate them. I always just made certain the first thing that aggroed a mob was my exorcism and then just led them into a consecrate. The casting time on Holy Wrath often led to issues because some mobs would get missed because they aggroed on something by the time the spell resolved and picking them up was challenging. With exorcism off the bat and backing up to the back of your consecrate you should have no issues collecting all the dudes and your other tanks can run ahead of you to grab guys without accidentally diverting the pack.

As for figuring out what the guys are targetting, Grid is huge here. I have aggro showing on my grid and it allows me to make sure that no one has aggro but tanks and to drag things back into the group before they get to the warlock who seeded just a few too many times.

The wave of 6 necros and 6 banshees always gave us trouble until I tried tanking the entire wave in full SR. I just run in and AS, exorcism, consecrate and try to take the whole lot of them and with 365 SR it was easy as pie.

 

Qalor

Just for another Hyjal wave perspective, I usually drop a consecrate way up front, then run down to our designated aoe spot, repeatedly casting seal of righteousness as I go. It gives a nice chunk of aggro so things tend to go towards me, but still allows other tanks to pull enough off me that I don't die horribly.

 

vorda

Would you consider the 2.4 legs an upgrade over [Praetorian's Legguards] ?

I suppose the most challenging content I tank currently are Felmyst skeletons (Holy is my normal raiding spec, I hs + respec for felmyst). Though picking up them is the most challenging part I think :P

Talking about that, maybe we can share tactics/tips on that abit?

Here is what I tend to do:
1) Put a consec down about 1-2 "skeletons spawns" away from the start
2) Pull the first 1-2 skeletons with seal/proximity agro or AS if needed
3) If I time it right, I can now put a consec abit after my first one
4) If there is a gap in between (and I loose 1-2 skeletons), this is where I either use taunt or try to judge one
5) By now the second beam has started and our MT should be over there. Once the second beam has spawned, I call our entire raid (with most focus on resto shamans/druids and CoH spammers) to hug up on me, using mostley taunt and our MT to bring the remaining adds to me.

While this works great, I'm always open to suggestions. I tried picking up adds on the second beam myself for a while aswell, but by the time I'd get there I felt they had spread out due to healing agro so much already making the healers hug up in my consec was a better solution.

edit:
Right, some tips I read in other topics:
- Stratholme holy water
- Oil of Immolation
- Exorcism (god I'm a retard I didnt think of this earlier..)
- Holy wrath on the first few skeletons (butit doesnt really have an advantage over AS I think)

 

• Chicken

The 2.4 legs have 3.47% avoidance, 108 Stamina (Not counting talents/leg enchant since it counts for both anyway), and 37 spell damage. Praetorian's have 3.67% avoidance, 120 stamina. They're really close in fact, but I'd say in your particular situation the 2.4 legs are better. Praetorian's have a small edge for progression boss tanking (Especially with the Taunt emphasis on some of the bosses), but that's not really a concern for you.

I'd comment on Felmyst skeletons but I haven't seen the fight myself which makes that difficult.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Braque

Reading all the posts on the Hyjal wave pick-ups, it really surprises me more people don't do AS+Holy Wrath. My last Hyjal clear showed Holy Wrath as doing 8% of my dps (thus, over 8% of my threat) over the whole night. Given it's cast once, right at the start of each wave, that's a nice big chunk of front-loaded threat, and a highly visible spell cast, letting dps start to unload sooner.

WWS link: WWS Loading...

Not saying that's the "right" way to do it, but it certainly works for me.

 

kalbear

I don't think I'd spend the badges if you've already got praetorians. I still think the badge legs are better, mind you, but it's not such an upgrade that it must be done now. One sidenote is that the Aldor legs, because they have defense, are slightly better for Hyjal since they provide block rating. And while block rating isn't useful for getting rid of crushing blows at that point, it's very useful once you blow through your holy shield charges. It's not a big difference, but it's something.

The rest of the badge stuff in 2.4 is very disappointing.

 

Yenadar

Hyjal Trash:
I use the other tanks as bait, for every wave other than the few with only 4-6 mobs arriving by land.

1: One of the tanks stands in front of me, sometimes a few yards, sometimes only a pixil.
2: The wave aggros on him first, and he strafes to the and forward slightly.
3: Myself and the other tank watch the line of mobs for a change in direction to ensure that they all aggroed on him.
4: I run forward to get within Holy Wrath distance and begin casting it
4b: If there are abombs in the wave, the other tank also runs forward and tags 2 before my Holy Wrath finishes.
5: My Holy Wrath hits the entire line of mobs approximately the same time (they are generally in a line across my screen), and I yank them all to me, laying a consecrate just before the first one gets to me.
6: If there are any abombs, the other 2 tanks pick up 1-2 each (if they can, sometimes they have trouble getting them off me), otherwise they go after the casters and leave the rest to me.

- I use Avenging Wrath frequently throughout the night, almost every cooldown, and my AoEers know they can open up sooner when they see my wings.
- I don't use Exorcism Avenger's Shield on the pull, saving them for if I loose a target to single-dps, I taunt it back and nail it with Exorcism + Judgement of Righeousness. Avenger's Shield is normally only used against Infernals and Gargoyles, before I get in melee with them.
- One of the Gargoyle waves, they drop down the first tower on the Horde side, and hover at the same level as the archer's ledge. I take advantage of this and run up the tower and Avenging Wrath + Holy Wrath them, normally catching them all, then I run off and back through the encampment to pull them down to the ground in a group.
- The first wave of Kal'Rogal trash, our warrior typically does not have enough rage for spell reflect, so our ret pally runs out front ahead of us, waits for the first round of casting, and bubbles, taking the first round of shadowbolts without issue. The rogues, mages, and other 2 tanks are generally onto the casters before they get a 2nd wave of shadowbolts off, so enough are stunned, CCed, or interrupted that the 2nd wave of shadowbolts isn't deadly to anyone.
- I burn 10 to 15 Free Action pots per clear (assuming no wipes), and have them macroed to also put out a raid warning when I use them, as well as when it fades. It has drastically improved my survivability in heavy abomb waves. I get all of them free from AoErs and healers that take it upon themselves in their own time to farm up the pots, and frequently have 30+ sitting in the mail. Self Preservation FTW! (I am also starting to use them on Mother trash, since I am getting them in such large quantities)

 

Dragonwing

In addition to many of the suggestions listed, I do believe it is quite evident that the amount of threat generation is not an issue in Mount Hyjal or Black Temple. Being that the case, I find myself often using [Cleaver of the Unforgiving] for the additional stamina benefit, which I personal find a lot more useful than [The Unbreakable Will]

My reasoning is more so as to the amount hit points in comparison to spell damage taken than the amount of physical damage intake (which is "almost" balanced if gemmed correctly").

Rather I find myself tanking trash or bosses in Black Temple or Hyjal, I rarely find it neccesay to stack a high amount of spell damage, and generally stack block value and stamina on trash, and switch up for some avoidance on bosses in general.

- It is not an awful lot to offer, but I feel I have seen to many borderline deaths that a bit of switching out might prove useful for some.

--------------------

On another note, I find more paladins enchanting their weapons with 40 spell damage over mongoose. I rarely
find myself in any position that I would choose the first over the latter, mongoose procs an awful lot, and the avoidance gain from it is incomparable to some of the other available procs (enchants or otherwise).

--------------------

lastly, I am not seeing as much interest in [Commendation of Kael'thas]
With ardent defender as a useful tool (if properly stack stamina for instances in which it would become more useful)
I find it A very useful trinket in boss fights. Think of brutalis or Illidan where your taking several quick strikes for effective, but minimal damage in comparison to hits like archimonde. pushing you past your 35% mark invokes a high amount of dodge that, particularly when stacked with mongoose, only further enhances your survival capabilities
by giving your healers some time to catch up.

Thoughts?

 

vorda

I think nearly every tank these days values Commendation as the best all round tanking trinket in game.

 

Maccam

The sense I'm developing is that Expertise is the warrior tool of choice to goose agro. While it's by no means a bad thing for a pali, it seems to me that spell damage is the better itemization to pursue for us. I think of it as something like agility is for us... very nice to have, but not in our core set of desires.

Am I missing something?

I'm a bit concerned about all the spell hit showing up in the new gear. I'm getting the sense that it may be needed in the future.

For the new badges, I'll be snabbing [Chestplate of Stoicism] over [Chestguard of the Stoic Guardian]. I'll also be upgrading from [Unwavering Legguards] to [Inscribed Legplates of the Aldor]. The pali chest I don't think I'll be picking up, and I don't see a use for the boots.

I picked up [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] a couple of days ago. I'm finding it really handy... except I wish it would proc a little further into the fight (seems to proc almost immediately, I'd prefer it to be about 10 seconds or more in, after I've taken a bit of damage). I'm Aldor btw.

I'll be picking up the [Ring of the Stalwart Protector] and retiring my Kara ring to healing.

I was using the Commendation in my AOE tanking gear, but I've dropped it in favour of the Moroes trinket. I found I missed the control that Moroes's trinket gave me on timing a burst of avoidance.

 

Dragonwing

I find [Shattered Sun Pendant of Resolve] slightly disappointing for scryers. Although 100 expertise is not "bad" by any means, the amount of avoidance gained by 100 dodge is hardly equivalent to the amount of threat gained, and damage reduced (by the parry reduction). On the other hand, I do find it slightly more useful than [Necklace of the Juggernaut] unless you fully intend on stacking avoidance.

In regards to worries about spell hit. Anyway you think of it, it is what it is. They are not going to just randomly throw a level 80 boss mob at us or anything, so for all practical purposes, unless we run into a particular fight (which I have yet to see) that has a shield mechanic that functions as to requiring more hit/spell hit, then I don't see a need in significantly stacking outrageous amounts of it. I feel blizzard is trying to stack a lot on these pieces because you don't find it on anything else really, so it has to come from somewhere.

And although I am picking up [Inscribed Legplates of the Aldor] as well, I will be holding on to