thedopefishlives

Just some anecdotal, ad-hoc testing tells me that this does not work. I've had situations with a boomkin druid using the talent where Starfire causes a stun where she'll stun it right when I RD it, and when the stun wears off, it continues on its merry way towards clawing her face off. It's actually rather annoying, as it's a waste of the RD cooldown.

 

Joasuf

I believe the reason for this is because when they are stunned they are not actually targeting anything and so there is nothing to taunt off.

 

Denogran

This. There are very few incapacitated targets that can be taunted, simply because our taunt works on target-of-target for harmful NPCs.

Also, for the case of taunting something _as_ it's sheeped, well that's because taunt gives you an equal amount of threat as the player you taunted off of, and focuses the mob on you. So if your druid friend was doing _anything_ when the sheep broke, then she'd be back on top of the threat list.

 

Arikah

Couldn't find anything in this thread about the season 3 spelldamage mace [Vengeful Gladiator's Gavel], vs [Hammer of Judgement]. These are really my 2 best options, we do not run hyjal any more so ToC is not within my reach, and the [Reign of Misery] seems like a chunk of wasted itemization points (besides the fact that our spriests and ele shaman still need it).

It's a tradeoff of 11 damage, 1.6 speed and a cooler looking weapon (what..?) for a minor stat loss in other depts - 3 less stam, 2 less int, 5 less spellhit. The pricetag is a little heavy, and even though i'm near point cap i'd like to not waste points on things that may not be worth it, especially with season 4 lurking about. So what i'm asking is, is the stat trade worth 3150 points, or would i be better off to waste them elsewhere, like on the s3 healing mace (to upgrade from the zul'jin one)?

Personal rating is not an issue, either.

 

Denogran

If you have [Hammer of Judgement], I'd just stick with that. 11 spell damage is nice, but probably not worth the 3k arena points, especially if you're looking to get season 4 stuff.

Basically, it's 11 spell damage vs 3 stamina( the slower speed is actually a bit better, as it'll reduce the amount of parry-gibbing that may occur, with no loss in threat - with or without reckoning ). Spell hit is nigh-useless now that they changed taunt, and 2 int, while a nice side-benefit, is a secondary stat at best.

 

Tilted

I'd just like to add that while HoJ does have a bit of innate threat built into it, you'll almost never want to use it for the threat component. Stunned mobs do not attack, so your Holy Shield and reflective damage go out the window. I typically reserve HoJ for situations where a mob peels off to someone else and I don't have the mana/time/cooldowns to grab aggro immediately. The 6 second stun generally buys enough time for my RD cooldown to come up for a quick taunt + judgement afterwards, and in some cases the thing is almost dead by then anyway so it's not worthwhile to care beyond that.

Back when I'd run heroics on a regular basis I was in the habit of stunning target #2 on initial pulls of heavy-hitting mobs, since that would buy the healer some breathing room without sacrificing threat on the primary target. Nowadays I don't bother because I want to take every drop of damage I can get my hands on in order to keep up with my DPS, so your mileage may vary.

 

damagedgoods

I am just starting out as a tanking paladin and have the Violet Eye Trinket and the old Darkmoon Card: Twisting Nether. Thinking that protection paladins keep shiel block up so much I was thinking I could spend badges for a first quick upgrade and get Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker 600.

Should I save my badges or is this good first upgrade worth as much as I think it is?

 

thedopefishlives

Save your badges. The Auto-Blocker is block VALUE, not block RATING. And while block rating is good for starting out with, it is also the first of the four avoidance/mitigation mechanics (miss, dodge, parry, block) to fall off the end of the combat table, so you shouldn't really stack too much of it anyway.

 

Mode

The autoblocker really isn't for paladins. It's a warrior threat trinket. Save your badges and try to get your hands on the Commendation of Kael'thas and Moroes pocketwatch.

 

Denogran

Also, get [Darkmoon Card: Vengeance]. That's awesome for the amount of raiding/instancing you have to do( Read: none ).

 

Cathela

It's extremely nice for any kind of AoE tanking, especially at the T4-T5 levels. If you're right at the progression gear level for tanking murlocs on Morogrim, then the equip effect can easily amount to a 10% net damage reduction (assuming you have Redoubt, naturally). Alternating the use effect with Figurine of the Colossus on consecutive waves can make your healer's life a lot easier.

I don't recommend it as one of your first badge purchases, but it's definitely handy to have.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Baalor01

Anyone use a shield spike on their shield at all...or just stam enchant??

 

Devil

I use a shield spike on my petrified lichen guard and my extra illidari runeshield for hyjal trash since I outgear it now.

 

Octopa

[Bulwark of the Amani Empire] Blockvalue Enchant

 

PsiVen

I have to take the opposite stance here, the Autoblocker was one of my first badge buys at 70 and I absolutely recommend that everyone pick it up. If the BV is 10% damage off on Morogrim it's far more in Heroics and Karazhan. The exact numbers depend on a lot of factors, but if you're [near] uncrushable, anything that hits under ~2k damage probably gets more effective health from the Autoblocker than a stam trinket.

 

Finkum

It's easy to calculate a rough equivalence between a stamina trinket and a block value trinket for a given fight assuming you know the average amount a mob will hit you for:

(Your HP / average hit) x 1.1 ([Eternal Earthstorm Diamond]) x 1.3 (Shield Spec) x BV gained from trinket

gives you the effective health saved, which you can then use for comparison purposes (obviously take out coefficients as necessary if don't have the meta/shield spec).

So for example, if you have 18k raid buffed and the average incoming hit is 2k, the [Gnomeregan Auto-Blocker 600] will give you 9 x 1.43 x 59 = 759 health (discounting the use effect) or 9 x 1.43 x 92 = 1184 health (averaging out the additional block value from the use effect). The averaged out figure is a bit deceptive (given that the mitigation it provides is only present for 20 / 120s) so I'd stick with the discounted value myself.

In comparison the [Commendation of Kael'thas] gives 1.06 (Sacred Duty) * 1.1 (Combat Expertise) * 1.1 (Kings) * 57 * 10 = 731 health (and a passive effect which is not accounted for here, but which obviously makes the Commendation a better choice overall).

Note additionally that BV is less valuable if HS drops off (crushings) or you are taking magic damage, whereas stamina is always effective.

For most boss fights you will of course get hit for a lot more than 2k on average, so stamina trinkets will generally be the better choice.

 

sag_ich_nicht

After talking with my guilds paladin tank about trash equip, we figure it makes sense to set up the trash equip one uses to have a total avoid of 101.6% (Mobs gain 0.2% anti-dodge/block/parry/miss per level above the player level), since trash mobs have a max. level of 72 you don't need the full 102.4% and can invest those stat points into more stamina or spell damage, while still preventing normal white hits(i.e. only having blocks). Since I saw no one else post about this, I figured I'll contribute it.

 

Cathela

Well, the point of reaching 102.4 is to be immune to crushing blows; since level 72 and under mobs don't crush there's no need to worry about hitting a specific number.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

sag_ich_nicht

You misunderstood my posting, please re-read it. The point in this case is only receiving blocked hits as opposed to full white(or yellow) hits.

 

vorda

By the nature of trash tanking though, you might very well take more hits than holy shield charges.

 

Denogran

And even if you're not, the benefits to gearing for blocks vs hits is a dubious one at best. Even in a high-block set, you're only going to be saving ~700 block per hit, and that's generally at the expense of stamina and real avoidance.

Block only really shines in multi-mob tanking environments, and like Vorda said, gearing to not be hit there is sorta useless as you'll likely not have holy shield/redoubt up all the time.

I wouldn't even consciously gear for unhittable on bosses if they didn't crush. It's just that the randomness factor of really spiky damage makes it necessary.

 

Hailsy

While on the subject of the auto-blocker, it's got me looking at my own itemisation set-up for Felmyst. As covered a page or two back, the incoming damage is pretty trivial of course, but I don't mind chugging more mana pots if it means our healers save some more mana.

I, like I would imagine most would, use Figurine of The Collosus for the use and the extra blocks in general. Previously I've used Dabiri's aswell.

In the general case for predictable low dmg from multiple sources I guess there must be some kind of relationship between frequency of incoming hits, size of the hits and the amount of block value/% you already have that can be derived to compare the Auto-Blocker and Dabiri's.

I'm not fantastic at theorycraft, but I'll give it a go and you lot can correct my shocking logic/maths.

Dabiri's

You could use the frequency of incoming hits to derive Redoubt/Holy Shield up-time to work out the number of incoming hits a second required to ensure that the full use of Dabiri's is well, used (15.85%), or how much of it would be used (this is assuming that without redoubt/holy shield you have more than 17.88% [15.85 + 2.03 passive] "to be hit" on your combat table, I fair assumption I think).

Once this is derived you could work out how many hits per time (the time being arbitrary as both trinkets have the same up-time a minute of 10seconds) blocked due to the additional block rating and add to this the 2.03 of total miss/parry/dodge/block gained from the passive defense on the trinket.

This can then be multiplied by your current block value to find how much damage per time is reduced from the trinket.

Auto-Blocker

As for the Auto-Blocker, we're looking to find out how many times you currently block per time, and how much of the passive/use block value is.. used.

To work out number of blocks you would add the passive block from gear (minus level difference of mobs 0.2% per level above) to the Redoubt/Holy Shield up-time worked out previously.

Then you would need to minus the current block value from the size of the incoming hits (after armour etc etc etc is applied) to see how much damage is available to be blocked. If this is more than 370 (259 x 1.1 Metagem x 1.3 Shield Specialisation), then the full usage is available with the use and you get an average additional 131 dmg per block mitigated. If less than 370, the amount less minused from the on use amount of block value multiplied by 20/120 will bring about the average additional dmg per block mitigated (up to the point of the on use effect is actually not being used, I don't think that 59 block value could ever be better than 2% avoidance in an aoe circumstance for pure total damage reduction.)

Therefore multiply the number of blocks found previously to this additional damage reduction per block to find the damage per time reduced from the trinket.


I can do the maths on my own gear in my own time, firstly:

1. Correct my maths/logic.
2. How do you work out Redoubt/Holy Shield uptime from frequency of incoming hits?
3. How do you work out Block Value given Tome of The Lightbringer?

Cheers.

 

Raudo

Hello guys, I'm trying to figure which boots will benefit me the most: [Battlescar Boots] or [Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian]. I am using [Battlescar Boots] with sta gems and enchant.

At the moment I have over 490 defense and uncrushable with BoK+MotW.

The problem is I want to replace [Figurine - Dawnstone Crab] with [Darkmoon Card: Vengeance], so I kinda need the block rating from [Blue's Greaves of the Righteous Guardian] to keep crushing blows out of the table.

Is it a good idea lower my avoidance to gain more stamina, block rating and spell damage? Or should I stick with my old boots and trinket?

This is my armory link

I am only raiding 10 man dungeons, with Kara clean and 5/6 ZA (with acces to 3rd chest), so you know what loot I have access to

 

Cathela