[Rogue] Backstab Parried?

Ozzmar · 10/14/07, 9:00 PM

Hey guys,

This strikes me as a fairly elementary question, but what happened to me makes no sense.

The rule of thumb as melee DPS is to stand behind a mob so that you won't get blocked or parried. Well, I have a combat log screenshot that says

Your Backstab is parried by Sandfury Slave.

Is it just lag that caused this, or something else? I've never seen this happen before.

Thanks guys!

Umph · 10/14/07, 9:03 PM

Stand further away from the mob, I think it is that the center of your hitbox is behind the target, but the front of your hitbox is past the center point of the mob's hitbox. (I think that location is determined using the center of your hit box).

This happens to Feral Druids reasonably often due to the longer model.

Darkmantle · 10/14/07, 9:33 PM

Putting Backstab Parried into the search button and searching by post gives this.

Umph · 10/14/07, 10:01 PM

Oh well there you go then! Nice to know the actual reason.

Prinsesa · 10/14/07, 10:07 PM

Is the "parry" generated by this Backstab really a Parry, as in it generates the faster swing speed effect, or is it really a different avoidance effect that just got mislabeled? I remember an old bug where Dodges and Parries were being reported as Misses, making Rogues and Warriors think the base miss rate was higher than intended.

Eylirria · 10/14/07, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Is the "parry" generated by this Backstab really a Parry, as in it generates the faster swing speed effect, or is it really a different avoidance effect that just got mislabeled? I remember an old bug where Dodges and Parries were being reported as Misses, making Rogues and Warriors think the base miss rate was higher than intended.

I'm not sure which bug you're refering to, but a really old version of Recap used to roll parries/dodges in with misses. But it wasn't a WoW bug, just inaccurate mod making.

Balkoth · 10/14/07, 10:41 PM

It's lag, pure and simple. The mob was most likely turning when you attacked, the attack went through, but the roll was calculated as the mob facing you. It rarely happens, and only in weird circumstances.

It is NOT a mod bug. But it's not worth worrying about either.

• Vandemar · 10/14/07, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by lordbalkoth

It's lag, pure and simple. The mob was most likely turning when you attacked, the attack went through, but the roll was calculated as the mob facing you. It rarely happens, and only in weird circumstances.

It is NOT a mod bug. But it's not worth worrying about either.

It's possible that parried Backstabs can result from lag, but my experiences line up well with the theory stated above- on a stationary, tanked mob, you can stand dead-center in its model and observe parries, but backing up a bit (with no facing changes taking place) makes those parries go away.

Dontmindme · 10/14/07, 11:50 PM

Yes, I've seen the same positioning issue. You can crowd the target and still be in backstab range, but also get parries. There is a kind of middle zone. I'm sure if you try almost anyone can reproduce it.

Ozzmar · 10/14/07, 11:59 PM

Originally Posted by Darkmantle

Putting Backstab Parried into the search button and searching by post gives this.

Ah cool, thanks for the link man. I didn't come across that one.

I don't know if it's easier on certain mobs or what, but it just happened to me again in ZF, and in playing another rogue to 70, I never noticed it once before. Maybe gnomes and trolls just have an odd interaction. Oh well.

Thanks everyone!

Darkmantle · 10/15/07, 1:15 AM

I can't be bothered finding the blue post but one of them came on and posted about this issue. The way blizzard handles facing attacks + lag between client and server is to fudge the player positions a bit so people don't always get "you are not behind them" messages and stuff all the time.

• Shalas · 10/15/07, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by Eylirria

I'm not sure which bug you're refering to, but a really old version of Recap used to roll parries/dodges in with misses. But it wasn't a WoW bug, just inaccurate mod making.

1.3 patch notes:

Previously, in many cases, a Block, Parry, or Dodge was translated into a "Miss," thus causing confusion over actual miss rates. We've made the following changes in an attempt to be more clear as to what is actually happening in combat:
Block: All creatures will now report a Block on attacks from the front, reducing damage caused instead of converting the attack into a "Miss." Creatures will no longer be able to Block attacks from behind.
Dodge: Every time a creature Dodges, it will report a Dodge. We will no longer translate a creature's Dodge of a rear attack to a "Miss."
Parry: All creatures will now report a Parry on attacks from the front instead of translating them into a "Miss." Creatures will no longer be able to Parry attacks from behind.

galzohar · 10/15/07, 1:29 PM

Explanation directly quoted from post from Ippon on WoW rogue forums :

The check for facing in order to backstab is client-side. If your PC thinks you can backstab, it lets you cast. Once the server recieves your request to backstab, it evaluates facing and resolves the attack. If your attack lands anywhere in your target's frontal arc, then they can dodge/parry/etc.
This can also occur when your hitboxes overlap. You can be in front of and behind someone at the same time, if you are "inside" them properly.

From the linked post.
That's what I thought the issue was as I had a backstab blocked twice in a row when I was clearly behind the paladin on my PC.