Trakor

Yeah, ive had 32% glancing blows the other day. It is kinda sad that RNG plays so much into it, be it with glancing, proc timings and crits.

In regards to mana issues, I dont have BoW eother. JoW is a must. If you have WF then ask your shammy for a mana totem as well. The 2p t6 set bonus is a good 2-2.5k mana for that fight. You also have the option of replacing mana pots for fel mana pots. Lastly, if you are still struggling, stop consecration and make sure you swing your weapon a bit more (ie, haste) for more jow and t6 procs. WF also increases the ammount returned from those procs.

To be honest, now that we have him on farm and i end up in the tanking group without any buffs, I ignore consecration completely and mana is not a problem. I dont even need to pot, despite not having WF.

About group stacking, our melee group now has 3 rogues (doing 2k dps each), a fury warrior (again 2k dps) and an enh shammy (1700 dps). When i was the melee group, i did 1800dps (gotten 3 upgrades since then). I dont understand whats the logic in puting me in the tank group and decreasing my dps to 1250. Wouldnt it be better if i stayed in the melee group? Do the rogues or the fury warrior loses more than me (note that they are missing out on my aura too) when subed out of the melee group?

None of these rogues bring imp expose armor, nor does the warrior bring imp battle shout + trinket. The tanking group has GoA + commanding shout + lotp, tree of life (or sometimes a hunter) and my imp devotion aura.

 

crásh

Bringing in Fel mana pots would proberly help alot. But didnt consecrate proc JoW aswell ?
To your question about lowering your dps to 1250 by not being in shaman group nor have wf then I suggest u read this post made a long time ago by zurm. [Paladin] Retribution DPS Theorycraft
This was a subject to bringing a 3. rogue or ret in that mellee group.
I made my guild look it trough to convince them that they dont have any loss by having me in the mellee group.
Nor does it make any difference but it will make u feel abit more viable being in the raid atleast. That is ofc if all the calculations is true, but by skimming them trough it looked good.
Although u will most likely have to compete versus the rogues to get the spot.
Lucky me we are only having 2 rogues being 100% active so im always in the mellee group being warrior, rogues x2, shaman and me.
Still on the other Brutallus kills I have been arround 1750-1800 on kills. Except for this oom try and glancing blows 29% I gues i have to be lucky with the alchemy trinket (3k mana +40%) if im staying on mana pots instead of fel mana pots.

 

Ragnor

Not being an alchemist, I use the following:

Max rank Exorcism
Alternate Rank 6 and Rank 1 Consecration depending on mana at the point in time (R6 during Avenging Wrath for example)
Demonic Rune every 2min (they are trivial to farm from Felwood)
Haste pot with Avenging Wrath at about 45sec into the fight
Fel mana at 2.45
Haste pot with heroism and Avenging Wrath

I don't normally have mana problems unless JoW falls off.

This is how the wws of my mana regen looks:

Judgement of Wisdom: 15,318
Sanctified Judgement: 5,657
Mana Spring: 3,320
Fel Mana: 3,200
Demonic Rune: 3,066
Wisdom (T6 2 piece): 2,350

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

orcsgotbooty

To be honest i would put the lowest rogue in your place especially if hes mutilate. But like you said if its on farm anyways have your group toss up battle shout and wf.

 

Cathmor

The Fel Ache debuff does lower your damage, albeit slightly. This was discussed probably around 10 pages ago, and flyingtoastr posted screenshots of his Consecration damage with and without the debuff. Starting at 0 spell damage, Fel Ache brought his spell total down to -25 and shaved about 3 points of damage off of each Consecration tick.

However, the extra mana gained from a [Fel Mana Potion] will allow for upranking of Consecration to rank 6 more often, and will likely result in a net DPS increase.

Please do not mince words and say that the Fel Ache debuff will not lower your damage. This is untrue.

EDIT: Grammar

I am the light that brings the dawn.
http://e4ae.blogspot.com/
-Cathmor of Malfurion
formerly Baelor of Runetotem

 

Aramul

The wiki for Rawr.Retribution is up and somewhat updated now. I will attempt to update this as I make changes to Rawr.Retribution. I welcome any further suggestions that anyone has.

 

Milou

About the positioning and dodging, did you mean the parries? I do see three parries, I assume you realize that you can be dodge from any of the 360 degrees around the boss. The only suggestion I can offer for this is stack closer together. The first few attempts on Brutallus mêlée was very spread out trying to make a "U" shaped line but we quickly realized (testing out burn during wipes) that we can be in fact very close to each other and now form a box with the restoration shaman in the middle. We've in fact even fit 6 mêlée and a healer back there with ease, so we now never get into parry positions unless it's a wacky pull but it's easy enough to reposition.

For the mana portion, if you're stuck at around 1500dps you should be able to safely witch to blessing of wisdom instead of blessing of salvation. But the best recommendation I could make is easy off on the consecration as they will eat your mana faster than a fat kid in your cookie jar. I generally will only consecrate if I have a burn which I cannot remove with divine shield, I also do some seal twisting though I still mostly fail in this regard and this is my biggest source of mana drain. On our most recent kill (second kill for us) I used a Wings/Haste within the first 20 seconds upon a good proc such as goose/dst/soc followed by a mana potion after 2 minutes and finally Wings/Haste after a good proc during bloodlust. But I consider this slightly under performing, I will change to using dark/demonic runes next time and use three haste potions (I also failed to refresh demonslaying...sigh).

Another important factor, use elixir of demonslaying as it is the best buff for this fight and also allows you to use elixir of mageblood for some extra mp5.

For the curious here's the wws report, as you can see seal of command seems to have had a rather low proc rate or I simply miss timed my twists. The extra damage is still worth it when you consider those 5 extra procs resulted in 5 extra blood procs which directly account for breaking the 2k dps threshold I've been hoping for.

Milou - WWS

 

Ragnor

It's completely situational.. your tank group makeup has a huge effect on that outcome, does your tank group have:

A Shaman? Is he dropping GoA or WF?
A Feral druid?
A Hunter? TSA or Ferocious Inspiration?
Two warriors tanks? Meaning battleshout would be up
A paladin tank?

Not being in the melee group means you or the Rogue lose (depending on your tank makeup):

Improved totems (wf, strength of earth, twisted goa)
Unleashed rage
Herosim/Bloodlust
Drums of battle
Improved + Trinket Battleshout

You can easily theorycraft the difference using rawr for you and the rogue dps spreadsheet for the rogue. Alternatively you could just ask to try the rogue in the tank group and see what dps amount he loses. Don't forget to add/subtract the effect of Sanctity aura 2% damage for the other 4 melee in the melee group.

Sometimes, especially if you have a paladin tank it will be best for raid dps to have you in the tank group. It's not the end of the world. You'll still beat the spriests most likely.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

crásh

Yeah it was the parries i ment.
I Will have to come back next week with a new kill and try out your suggestions. Although im in doubt that I will breake 2000 dps. But as I see on wws then alot is using haste pots instead of mana pots. Didnt think of demonic runes.
Thanks for all the reply´s people.

 

Trakor

I get quite a few parries, and to my knowledge, they cant be avoided. They happen when Brutallus faces your way to burn either you or somebody in your general area. Or is there a way to avoid this from happening?

 

flyingtoastr

Sometimes. Other times you are standing in the wrong spot. If you use the two camp method you should only ever have parries while he is burning people in the melee group, so perhaps a total of 3 or 4 in the fight. Anything above that usually means you are standing within his frontal attack arc, which means your melee needs to hug each other closer (or stand inside him).

111 seconds

 

Zupal

Minor nitpick but [Cloak of Darkness] is not showing melee crit. I updated mine locally but it should be a global fix.

I only noticed this while trying to fill out my RED meta requirements and that cloak ranked far below what it should have been.

 

Milou

If you get parried because he targets melee for burn then no, that is not avoidable. But if you get parried when he's facing one of two tanks then your positioning is off, there's a lot of room back there so it should be easy to fix with a bit of communication.

 

Ragnor

It's one of the only items it the game with the old style wording for the crit equip. I just edit the item and at the crit rating manually.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

Illustrious

I've been going over some of the numbers on my last Brut WWS to see if the benefits of Seal-Twisting outweigh the wrenches it randomly throws in my rotation. According to my last WWS, which can be found at Wow Web Stats , I missed the following:

4 (rounded up) opportunities to CStrike assuming a 6.5 sec interval to account for lag, ect. (7500 damage assuming 3 hits and 1 crit)

6 opportunities at Exorcising missed. (6000 damage)

Unsure how to account for JoB, I should have 43 opportunities, accounting for initial JoCrus, but WWS is recording 66, I'm guessing the recoil counts as one, so that 66 really means 33? If that's the case, I missed 10 Judging opportunities (4000 damage)

In this, I gained 6 SoComm Procs and therefore 6 extra SoB Procs as well (14,400 + 4300 (assuming 4 SoB hits and 2 Crits) which equals 18,700)

Missed opportunities = 17,500 damage
Gained Damage from twisting = 18,700 damage

Some added information about the fight:

Overall DPS was 1965.

Overall buffs consisted of: GoA, WF, Leader of the Pack, Unleashed Rage, and Imp expose armor.

Lacked: Blood Frenzy, Battle Shout, Survival Hunter, anything else that matters.

Not trying to tout anything here, I truly feel my DPS was sub-par at best, and am looking for any tidbits on improving overall DPS. I think think the biggest red light are the 4 missed CStrikes and perhaps the Judgments?

Unfortunately, my armory logs me as Holy in Holy gear (July 4th week, been healing since Felmyst, due to one of our main Paladin healers being on vacation)

 

Mountie

It really does depend on your weapon speed. With drums up, my speed is 2.9 and when trying to twist a lot I found my dps didn't drop, but didn't improve(despite gear increases). I was just missing too many other abilities. What I found to be most effective for me, is to do the normal rotation and twist only when everything is cooling down and you've got nothing to do but twist.

I just found it much more effective given my weapon speed. One other advantage of this type of rotation is that on non-demon/undead mobs where you can't exorcise, you simply increase your twisting slightly to fill the time you have.

 

Chrix

With regards to seal twisting is it much easier to twist SoB than SoR? as an alliance paladin Ive been trying to twist SoR for sometime now on random mobs, my swing timer is almost / is at 0 when i SoR, and its led me to question whether SoR is twistable Ive read a lot of people saying it is. ive also tried slightly before my swing and also looking at animation - to factor the delay i experience but have yet to have any luck. Could someone please shed some light on the issue didn't find much on google

 

Ragnor

I see people say you can twist SoR but I don't believe them. Personally when I tested it I could only twist from SoC to SoJ. No other combinations worked (SoV. SoR, SoW, SoL). I think it's the fact that SoJ and SoB and pseudo melee effects that allows it to work.

The universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements. Energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest.

www.retpaladin.com

 

Trakor

RAWR

I'm not sure whos taking care of RAWR RET atm, but the last version, beta 14.1 had some bugs related to SoC. When can we expect to get a new version without this bug?

I'm also experiencing error messages when I try to load [Pauldrons of Berserking] as my shoulder piece. I get the following:

"Rawr encountered an error while attempting to load a saved image. If you encounter this error multiples times, please ensure Rawr is unziped in a location that you have full file read/write access, such as your Desktop, or My Documents"

And I believe this is the case. I can send more details about this error message, but its way too long to post here. Once I know whos handling the project, I'll send you a PM.

Also, how good is [Blackened Naaru Sliver] for us? Anybody here with actual in game experience with it yet? I'd like to know how much effective ap that proc is, assuming a swing speed of around 3 secs.

 

Trakor

Even if you could twist between these two, in the end, its not worth it. SoR does very little dps for ret pallies. SoR doesnt scale with out gear and apart from Imp Spirit and JotC, we don't really get any other spell dmg.

Even if you master the ability to twist seals, depending on latency, you might miss some SoC procs, resulting in dps loss.

 

Ragnor

Aramul is maintaining the ret model.. see the link for the changes he's made that will be in the next version
Rawr - Home

I don't think there is a eta on the next version, "when it's done" probably.

This is because of corrupted images downloaded from the wowarmory when you update your item db. Open the images folder in the rawr folder and slideshow through the images using something like irfanview until you find a corrupt image. As a temporary fix overwrite that image with a copy of a working image for the same slot (shoulder, head, next).

It's already been reported as a bug and possibly fixed next version see here:
Rawr - View Issue

I had the problem with inv_helmet_132.jpg so I just overwrote it with the one from wowhead (rather than wowarmory)
eg: http://static.wowhead.com/images/ico...helmet_132.jpg


We don't know yet, I don't know of any paladin that's won one and posted test results. It depends what abilities proc it.