Bendyr

So I'm a noob Kara Holy Priest, and I want to maximize my mana usage during long fights. I've had some success using CasterWeaponSwapper, and I'm wondering how other priests have itemized their different sets.

1) Do I ultimately want to hold onto 4 different healing weapons and put different enchants on each one (int, +heal, spellsurge, spirit)? Any recommendations on weapons to use for each of these at my gear level? Right now I have [Hammer of the Penitent], but I hope to acquire the Sha'tar exalted hammer soon, as well as the healing weapon drops from Maiden and Prince.

2) As far as I can tell the [Staff of Divine Infusion] has much more spirit than any combination of 1H and offhand weapons, so I'm pretty sure that's going to be my spirit set until I get the one off of Nightbane.

3) Right now I can get the [Seer's Cane], which like the Staff above, seems to have much more Int than any other combination. Would that be worth using as my Int set right now, despite the hit on the +healing?

Any general tips from Holy priests who are using CasterWeaponSwapper? What gear and settings are you using?

Does all this work really make a difference in the end?

 

• Endahl

I'm Shadow but I still periodically obsess about my healing set since I have so little to use my dkp or farming time on otherwise. I was Holy in vanilla up to the latter half of BWL, and I always swore by having a spirit staff and a +heal weapon (Will of Arlokk + Bene for life, etc).

4 weapons seems like overkill, though a lot of this comes down to personal preference. Personally I never felt the mana pool increase from a heavy int staff to be worth the tradeoff in initial +healing or other stats, the benefit becomes sufficiently hard to measure that I never found it easy to justify. Right now I use [Nightstaff of the Everliving] for spi and [Shard of the Virtuous] with a semi-terrible rep offhand for +healing, the real healers are still picking up our raid drop weapons.

I've previously used +81h pretty much exclusively on my primary healing weapons and dodged Spellsurge (just a natural dislike for random procs) -- but with the amount of Spellsurge procs I've mooched off a guildie from totally random things (bandaging? wut?), I'm thinking I might go with Spellsurge for future weapon drops. If I had access to two roughly equivalent mainhands, one for each enchant, the thought of using the Spellsurge weapon until it procs, then swapping 81h in for the duration of surge's internal c.d. seems appealing.

 

Bendyr

Right the main appeal for me with Spellsurge is how CasterWeaponSwapper will swap it out when the proc is on the hidden cooldown.

I'm such a dork, but I live for weird optimizations like that.

So if I do that, what stats should I look for in a Spellsurge weapon, and should I just get the most +healing I can on my +81 weapon?

Also, what percentages do you set the sliders to?

 

• Endahl

Looks like you snuck in a reply while I was editing. As I said I'd personally look for rough equivalents, or even two of the same MH if available (such as double Sha'tar gavel once it becomes unique-equipped in 2.3) for surge and 81h, they're essentially both "casting enchants" whereas spirit is strongest on a regen weapon.

I've not used CWS but I swap +spirit in with a hotkey usually around 50%. Definitely will use the mod though if I get an appropriate weapon to try out Spellsurge, that proc would be a pain to keep track of.

 

• constantius

Here's some things to realize:

1) Spellsurge is a 50% proc on a 50 second internal cooldown. It doesn't matter if you have it enchanted on a GREY weapon ... it's only active for the 5 seconds it takes to proc, then CWS switches your main weapon back in. Just use your previous generation 1H weapon.

2) Having a spirit weapon is absolutely necessary, unless you actually use one as your primary weapon. Being able to hit a button, put on [Nightstaff of the Everliving]+20 spirit enchant (side note: WTB +30 spirit enchant, PST), switch in my spirit wand ([Soul-Wand of the Aldor]), and proc the Use Effect on my [Earring of Soulful Meditation] makes an innervate worth precisely 12,000 mana for me. Without those, it is worth just under 9k. Huge difference for one click of a button.

3) Having an "int weapon" is rather worthless, and takes more handing than is really necessary, since the mechanics for switching in CWS aren't precise enough, and it'll be switching all the time unless you really tweak it. All you really need is the same set in High and Regular, and your Spirit set in Low, and then a Spellsurge MH/OH Enabled.

I use:
[Nightstaff of the Everliving] +20 (spirit)
[Gavel of Pure Light] +Spellsurge
[Crystalheart Pulse-Staff] +81 (main healing weapon)

If you're stuck for raid drops, buy 2 [Gavel of Pure Light].

 

Bendyr

Thanks very much for this info! this is exactly what I'm looking for.

Before I drop the gold on this, can someone confirm that CasterWeaponSwapper can distinguish betweeen two of the same weapon with diff enchants? I've been burned by that on other mods in the past.

 

◊ Shalas

As with almost all rep rewards, it's Unique.

Pre-TBC I did a int/healing/spirit swap for a while, but ditched the int part around when we got to Naxx. It just stops being worth the annoyance after a while -- automatic int swaps don't work very well, and even [Apostle of Argus] + 30 int is only 1335 mana.

Dealing with +healing/spellsurge/spirit is well worth the effort, though. Spellsurge is 42 mp5 in exchange for 100-200 healing on two spells per minute, and as constantius pointed out, the effects of a spirit weapon swap on innervate are huge (as is just swapping any time you know you have some time where you don't have to cast).

 

Belenos

Hi, I am the author of CWS, I hope I can answer a few questions.

CWS does not distinguish between items with the same name, but this is the biggest feature I'd like to add in the near future. Someone told me they had modded it to include this feature, but then they disappeared.

I understand that some people don't like how the mod swaps to your "high mana" and "low mana" sets, so I will probably make them optional for those who just want to swap between healing/damage and spellsurge sets. The high mana set isn't handled super well due to hysteresis (you swap in a weapon with more int, suddenly your max mana is higher, your mana percentage is lower, so the mod wants to swap in your casting weapon, etc).

Personally I do keep 4 sets of weapons/wands, since I am micromanagement nut. I use a Staff of the Redeemer (45 int) enchanted with 30 int for my high mana set, but the Seer's Cane is nice too. I believe that having 700-1000 extra mana from starting the fight with the extra int is worth it.

Regarding which attributes to look for in the casting and spellsurge sets, it's more open to personal preference. Obviously int and spirit are less important, so healing and mp5 are great. In my experience, I spend from 10% of 40% of a fight with the spellsurge set equipped (the mod reports this now). In theory the spellsurge set should proc quickly and then swap out, but sometimes it is stubborn, and sometimes it swaps in just as I am about to take a regen break. So I wouldn't just throw spellsurge on a grey. The Essence Focuser is a great cheap BOE for this though.

 

Bendyr

Belenos, ty for the clarification on the items with different enchants, and the details on the logic for mana switching.

I think I will work +int into my rotation as I already have the Seer's Cane, and I can do +30 int myself.

As it stands now with my current gear, I think I'm going to going to go for:
Int - [Seer's Cane] with +Int
Healing - [Shard of the Virtuous] with +81 healing
Spellsurge - [Gavel of Pure Light] with Spellsurge
Spirit - [Staff of Divine Infusion] with Mighty Spirit

Anyway, Keep up the good work Belenos!

 

Bendyr

Hey 1 more thing,

What wands are you guys using at endgame with caster weapon swapper?

Right now I'm using middling 60s green wands of the Eagle, Healing, and Spirit to go with my Int, Healing, and Spirit sets...

Am I giving up too many other stats for this though?

 

• constantius

There's only 5 wands you should be considering seriously:

[Soul-Wand of the Aldor]
[Blue Diamond Witchwand]
[Luminescent Rod of the Naaru]
[Naaru-Blessed Life Rod]
[Vengeful Gladiator's Baton of Light]

Pre-Kara: [Soul-Wand of the Aldor] (Shadow Labs)
Pre-Morogrim: [Blue Diamond Witchwand] or previous
Pre-BT: [Luminescent Rod of the Naaru]
Mid-BT to Illidan: [Naaru-Blessed Life Rod]

with

[Vengeful Gladiator's Baton of Light] for Arenas and stamina situations.

 

Belenos

Well, with the ability to hot-swap wands, you have a few other options. For example I had a good old Dragon Finger of Healing in my WoW 1.0 set, since it had the best healing available for a long time, even though other wands were better for regen.

What I use now is the Witchwand for my high and low mana sets, and a Rejuvenating Scepter (quest reward, 31 healing 2 mp5) for casting. When casting, I prefer the 2 mp5 to other wands' stats. I don't have access to the other wands listed yet, but they're clearly all great choices.

 

Aasmodian

Just to throw my two cents worth into the mix...
I have been a holy/disc priest since i started playing pre-BC. I have always stressed +int over +spirit. Now of course, all the priest/caster specific items with +heal generally tend to come with at least some spirit, so i do have about 490 spirit. but my Int is at 590, well over 600 when raid buffed and potioned etc. THis gives me a total of about 14.8k mana.
The reason i would rather have +int over +spirit anyday is this: Why run out of mana and have to rely on mana regen, when you could pump as much +enchants and gems to give you not only a massive mana pool, but also a %crit increase. Im sorry to say, that i hate spirit, and i think its worthless in both pvp and pve. Just consider the fact that you always have mana oil (for a price on the AH), if you are raiding then chances are you have a paladin with the +regen buff, hopefully you have a shaman with a mana spring totem, and not only that, but you have mana potions and your shadow pet that regens mana for you. There are also some foods out there that give a +30 spirit buff as well.
So in conclusion, go with +int. In the long drawn out raid battles, i do run out of mana, but %99.9 of the time i have at least one innervate and sometimes even get a second round of cooldowns with my mana pet. the +crit chance is nice, and spirit is worthless.
Thanks and have a great day

P.S. I have every purple drop possible for healers from kara putting me at about +1600 healing when buffed, 1496 base. I also have the Gruul trinket which when procs gives me a -450 mana cost on my next spell. helpful i hope.

 

Nayt

I currently use:
OH: [Talisman of the Sun King]
[Shard of the Virtuous] (Spellsurge)
and Main Heal w/ [Light's Justice] (+81 Healing)
I look at it like I want the most +Healing Available to me most of the time, obviously the Light's Justice has the most overall healing (even w/o the enchant) and +Spirit increases that. My over gear makes up for the overall Regen loss of 6mp5. Plus while having Spellsurge up I want more active overall Regen which I get from the Shard.

I'm not a big Spirit fiend yet but the same could be said about:
[Nightstaff of the Everliving] (Spellsurge)
and
[Ethereum Life-Staff] (+81 Healing)

(Based on my guilds progress, this is what I've pushed for our healers.)

"When Nate's in town a feast is down."
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Hunter / Priest / Shaman / Warrior

 

vorda

So you are seriously trying to convince people to use something like +30 int on weapon over +81 healing, +12 int on bracers over 30 healing, etc..?

edit: Sorry, but I have to mention this: you are using +17str/int on your headpiece.. Melee alot?

I'm not sure if you can be saved at this point, but I'll do a general comparison of how much mp5 you need in a ~6 minute fight to match +100 int:
100 int = 1500 mana
1500/(6*12)= 20.8 mp5

Now, add to this that if you do run out of mana, your intellect is doing absolutly nothing for you.

Yes, there are tons of ways to regen mana, but in what way is stacking intellect (you know, bigger mana pool, barely affects your total healing done with all those mana regen methods) better then stacking regen/+heal?

edit2: small example of what you'd have to give up for mp5 in your case:
Head enchant: -16 int, +35 healing, +7 mp5
Bracers enchant: -12 int, +6 mp5
Chest enchant: -6 int, +6 mp5 (you'll loose 6 spirit though, which will be ~2 mp5 when spending 30% outside FSR and 1 +heal)

Thats 17 mp5 and 34 healing for 34 intellect. See where this is going?

Now we have had the whole 'intellect' thing, can you please enlighten us on your spec?

 

Margot

Armory: Aasmodian

Is almost funny enough for a Primal News Transmute link.

 

Derrek

My guild just downed Lurker in a 16 minute fight. (Lot of dps died stupidly). The first spout killed 2 of the 3 mt healers, leaving only me. With 1 innervate, I was able to keep the MT up the entire fight. (Lurker gives some time for oo5sr with the spouts) I am positive that there is no way this could have been done in our raid without my almost 700 raid buffed spirit (217 mp5 in combat; ~600 mp5 oo5sr). I fail to see in a 9-12 minute fight a larger mana pool will make up spirit oo5sr intelligently used + raw mp5 in combination with mana pots / shadowfiend.

I haven't had any TK or SSC drops yet, so comparing mp5, Raid buffed i'm 217 compared to your 118 + 30 (blessing of wisdom) + (50 spirit iDS + say 50 spirit Kings = ~11mp5) = 159 mp5 during combat and about 399+30+~76 = 475 oo5sr. At 10 minutes, I will have regenerated 58*12*10 = 6,960 -3,000 (our initial pool difference) = 3,960 more mana than you IF I am casting constantly and neither of us never proc clearcasting (followed by IF for some oo5sr).

...this doesnt' even consider the additional benefit of bonus healing from spiritual guidance or the soon to be doubled mana regen from Meditation in 2.3.

 

Aasmodian

Ok, so like i mentioned above, it was just my opinionnot something you guys have to mock me for. Dont get me wrong, i do appreciate mana regen through spirit, and +healing through the specc. I still prefer int over spirit cause i can make up for the spirit through buffs, and yes, i know you can do the same for int, but still, its just a personal choice. Im leaning more and more towards pvp anyways, and since death is usually right around the corner, i would prefer being able to cast a whole bunch for 3 mins, instead of being 00m at 2mins and wanding for damage.

And btw, i dont give a rats ass about the math you did about my mana regen rate, when im raiding im at +500 mp5, so its really not that much difference.

Thanks for being the elitist jerks i knew you could be Cheery-O

 

Belenos

Well, there's no need to be too biased towards one stat or another. The way I see it, it all comes down to mana. Int gives you X mana now, spirit gives you Y mana over time, mp5 does too but in a different way. So I think it's up to each person to see how the stats work, and evaluate them each according to their playstyle.

If according to your playstyle, 6 mp5 will yield more mana when it counts than 15 spirit, then put that on your chest, otherwise don't. There's no need to "stack spirit" or "stack int" when a little math will tell you which enchant (or piece of gear etc) will give you the most bang for your buck in a given situation.

On the bright side, when it comes to weapons, you can sort of have the best of both worlds, and that's why I wrote CWS. You can start with int, swap to healing, get spellsurge procs, and have spirit available when you need it. It's not truly optimal, but IMHO it's a lot better than picking one enchant only.

 

• Psykal

When it has been mathematically shown that given current itemisation values mp5 is better than intellect you can hardly say, "leave me alone guys, it's just my opinion".

 

Belenos

That's just the thing, it's not that "mp5 is better than intellect." It may be that 10 mp5 is better than 30 int, or 6 mp5 is better than 20 int, or whatever. But it's not unequivocally true that "mp5 > int."

You probably just meant that, given current gear/enchants/etc available, items with heavy mp5 tend to be better than items with heavy int. But we do need to be specific. There are places where int is important, for example I think it'd be foolish to ignore the int on some tinkets. Alchemist's Stone isn't bad because it has int instead of mp5, you just have to do the math for each item to see its contribution to mana.

Author of CasterWeaponSwapper: suggestions welcome by forum PM or to wikwocket@gmail.com.

 

• Psykal

That's what I was getting at with the itemisation thing. I know that we can't get exact values and it depends on the length of the fight but if we assume a generous 6 minute average then 1 mp5 = 4.8 int. Aasmodian has 12 int on his bracers. The 6mp5 enchant in this case is worth 28.8 int and this figure increases with the length of the fight. The encounter would have to be less than 2.5 minutes in order for 12 int to give him more mana, and this is virtually never the case.

 

Aasmodian

Like i said, i dont disregard spirit, but i tend to just let the items with spirit stay with their base stats. I prefer intelligence for the %crit (although im still only about 15%) and the base mana pool. When 2.3 releases, chances are im going to respecc because of the changes.
I never claimed to be the l33t3st person rollin priest, and i sure as hell never said "You should totally do int, because it roxorz your soxorz." I am not trying to convince anybody to do anything, cause frankly i dont care. I was just trying to provide an alternative to the "casterweaponswapper" idea. Just remember you said that when your mana runs out 3k before mine does and i kill you in a duel, or arena, or pvp. i mentioned i lean more towards that kind of fun at the moment, so please, go ahead and tout your numbers all you want. In the short fight, i have mana, you dont.
Edit: Have a peachy day

 

notrachel

Can you not work out the difference (n) in mana between the high int and casting set and set the swap to cast when current mana < max mana - n? And only have the high int set swap in when 100% mana and out of FSR? I guess buffs make the value of max mana slightly complicated

Possibly there should be no percentage figure to enter for that swap since its hard to imagine you don't want to stop using the +int set absolutely as soon as possible. I use a green wand for example.

 

ANSeranov

Int isn't terrible... it's just that stacking it doesn't help. At all.

I don't swap weapons or anything right now, but if given the option, I'd do Mag Staff/Solarian Staff w/ 81 healing and Shard of the Virtuous/Aran's Soothing Sapphire w/ Spellsurge. Until I get one of those staves, tho, I'm just sticking with my Murmur mace + Sapphire w/ 81 healing. <_<;;

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