Edenfall

Thank you. I will add those two to the list.

However, that neck is only an option in very special gear setups and only for useful for stacking health.

 

Inaiwae

I still miss [Verdant Gloves] in the list. They are fine for Karazhan tanking and easily obtainable.

 

Allev

If you're MT, stacking health is the name of the game. If you're pre-raid, you still probably have one or two arena pieces to get your crit immunity, so I don't consider it "special". Or PVP bracers, belt, or boots. Plus heavy defense already off Clefthoof items. It's very, very easy to go past crit cap, and once you do that the Juggernaut-to-Deep switch becomes VERY viable.

I'm in T6 content and only use Juggernaut when I'm maxing my dodge; typically I use Deep + 2x12 stam.

 

Edenfall

Oh, I can add those gloves to the list over the weekend (leaving work now), but note that using them above ex. [Wastewalker Gloves] results in a big loss of Stam/Agi stats for just Armor.



About PvP gear... PvP gear has a lot of survivability, but not mitigation. Tanking with only PvP gear would result in a dull dodge/miss chance. Though it's a fact that PvP gear is extremely viable when it comes to replace some certain gear slots. And Season 2-3 does pretty much replace some PvE gear. Then again, if you take a look at Blizzard's plan for Feral Druids: ex. Season 3 gear will have more survivability, but T6 will have better threat generation. However, that's more end game. Druids in early raiding content need to look out to keep their dodge up.



bye now /run

Edit: S3 may not have more survivability than T6 due to less Armor

 

Sodee

Does anybody know if this list is still being updated? I know it's not currently up to date as of 2.3, but I do understand something like that does take time.

 

Edenfall

It's about fully updated. I'm gonna check once more on the new Badge rewards though. But eh, this is pretty much what you need. =)

 

seminarca

If you are maximising dodge/avoidance, Necklace of the Deep with 2 x 8 Agility gems (if you don't have access to the 10 Agility ones) is better than Juggernaut.

Necklace of the Juggernaut
19 Agility = 1.29% dodge (1.36% with kings)
22 defense rating = 9 skill = 0.36% dodge & miss
Total Avoidance: 2.01% (2.08% with kings)

Necklace of the Deep
37 Agility = 2.52% dodge (2.72% with kings)

I assume you don't need the crit reduction from Juggernaut (since you said you use Deep + 2 x 12 Stamina normally), unless you're juggling other stuff around to get more avoidance, and losing some crit reduction which makes using Juggernaut necessary for you. But in a vaccuum, Deep has more avoidance than Juggernaut.

Btw, I'd strongly suggest [Brooch of Deftness] to you instead of Deep + 2 x 12 Stamina, it has 4 more Stamina, and I'd wager the Expertise and Hit Rating is better for threat than the 21 Agility you'd be losing. So you're trading 1.43% dodge for 4 Stamina and 3.89% less avoidance on your attacks, well worth it in my opinion.

 

Sodee

Yep, it is a great list... I've been using it a lot recently. However, it doesn't include ZA, the new badge gear or the Season 3 gear. I was just wondering if whoever had compiled the list was still working on it, or if it was going to stay in its current state. Regardless, whoever made it, thank you. =)

 

Edenfall

I made the list, and updating it whenever I take my time. You're right, I haven't added Zul'Aman gear, basicly because this thread is about preraid gear, and ZA is a raid instance

However, I could also make a raid gear list. Feral Druid itemization in TBC is rather dull and simple. I'll have a look at it later.

 

Edenfall

Actually, that gear setup is 95% of what I started off with, except I had tanked Attumen and Morogrim for another guild a couple times, so I had the Violet Signet.

 

xiaoxin21

I would include the cloak from Karazhan(illhoof) into your list as well the raid list.

I am thinking the new arena gear via honor will be a nice addition to this list. They often have resilience which makes you crit immune much earlier and improved armor. It is also predictable to get unlike drops off instances which require the boss to actually drop it.

 

Edenfall

Yes, thanks for reminding me on the cloak.
About PvP rewards, since Season 1 gear now is available for Honor, I will add the ones I find relevant.

However, I would like to advice Druids that Resilience is only an in-case-of-shit solution, and that Defense Rating is favorable due to the Dodge and Miss gained.

 

Crowl

You should now update any mentions of veterans gear to now be vindicators since thats all that can be bought by people for honor now.

Also, trying to warn people away from the use of resilience in your last post seems somewhat excessive, on the whole defense is better for a tank, but some use of resilience is a completely valid option that can allow more flexibility in gear rather the complete last resort you label it as.

 

Edenfall

I guess what I was implying to was - don't stack resilience unless you need it
And yeah, I'll fix those veteran items. Thanks=)

 

Kalaghan

I'm a little confused by this, but people seem to agree so I was wondering if someone could point out the error in my math. Numbers may be a bit off here but I think the jist of it goes (forgive the different approach to 2.6% for resilience vs defense, going off the formulas on wowwiki):

Uncrittable via Defense:
2.6%/0.04% = 65 defense
65 defense x 2.37 defense rating/defense ~154 defense rating

Dodge Gained from Defense:
2.6%


Uncrittable via Resilience:
For 1% reduction: 2050/(262-3*level) = 2050/(262-3x70) = 39.42 resilience
So for 2.6%: 39.42x2.6 ~ 103 resilience

Since, from an itemization perspective, 1 resilience = 1 defense, consider:

154 defense rating = 103 resilience rating + 51 itemization points (assuming equal ilevel choice of gear)
51 agility x 0.0691% dodge/agility = 3.52% dodge


So given two items of equal item level, wouldn't it be preferable to go with resilience over defense since it appears to me you could get more dodge that route (and also some damage reduction vs. dots)? I understand, properly itemized gear with resilience can be difficult to come by. But the above warnings seem to actually say don't take resilience unless you have to, when as far as long as the remaining item points on your gear are properly distributed.

 

Zeln

Defense also increases chance to be missed.

 

Kalaghan

Wow...can't believe I missed that. Although it does seem counter-intuitive since I always interpreted a miss as being the fault of the attacker. Thanks! Are chance to be missed and dodge additive? Or are they calculated on sequential rolls then (i.e. first roll determines if it's a miss, second roll for non-miss determines if it's a dodge)?

(Edit: Can't figure out how to delete this post though I figure it'd be better as a PM. Sorry it's a bit off-top.)

 

Edenfall

I'm very hungry right now, and thus slow minded, but are you calculating that 1 resilience rating =/= 1 resilience?
Your math results are correct, but ...bah, someone call Dukes. I'm leaving work now.

 

Zeln

No, he means when the itemizers are adding stuff to an item it costs the same for it to be defense rating or resilience rating.

In other words, there's a +8 defense rating and a +8 resilience rating yellow gem because they "cost" the same.

 

Allev

Pre-raid, your first goal is to get crit-immune as quickly as possible. It doesn't really matter as to the "how", just so long as it gets done.

For the most part, you'll never have a straight-up choice between resilience and defense on any piece of gear, only gems. And with gear, it's usually pretty clear whether an item is an upgrade before even taking resilience/defense into account.

For gems, which should make up a very very small part of your crit immunity strategy, use defense if you want higher avoidance and use resilience if you want to stack more stam (because you'll get to your stamina threshold quicker).

 

BOHIC

This makes no sense. If you need to gem for crit immunity, you should gem resilience because it gets you crit immune faster. If not (and hopefully this is the case), then you gem agility for avoidance and stamina for mitigation. I don't believe defense gems belong on druid gear period.

 

Kalaghan

I'd say they do. As has been noted (now that I stand corrected), you can get more avoidance by going straight defense rather than a mix of resilience and agility. So if your gemming priorities are:
1) Become crit immune
2) Gear for Avoidance

Then it makes sense to go with +defense gems. If you were to use a mix of resilience and agility gems you would actually get less total avoidance than by using straight defense gems.
defense: (resilience+agil) results in a ratio of (2.6%dodge+2.6% to be missed): 3.52% dodge - hence more avoidance from defense.

 

Zeln

If its going to take 2 gem slots to be uncrittable if you use Defense Rating Gems, but only 1 if you utilize Resilience Gems, then you can put an 8 agi gem in that second slot and gain more avoidance than if you used two Defense Rating gems.

 

Kalaghan

Well now you're talking about a situation with wasted itemization. If 8 resilience is enough, then 12 defense is enough. So look at 1 8 defense gem and 1 4 agil/5 def gem (Glistening Fire Opal...there's no 4/4 gem that I know of, but the point is you'd never need more than 1 of these because if you needed 2 then you'd just equip 1 defense gem and 1 agil gem in their places).

One option gives you:
8 res to uncrittable plus 8 agility = 0.55% dodge
The other option gives you:
13 defense to uncrittable plus 13/2.4 x (0.04dodge + 0.04miss) = .43% avoidance
plus 4 agility = 0.28% dodge
total = 0.71% avoidance

So you're still better off with defense over resilience. Granted, you have to go to the trouble of getting a defense+agil gem, but for every situation where resilience works out cleanly (i.e. no waste with +8res gems, but wasted crit reduction with +8defense), there's another situation where defense works out cleanly and resilience does not. Hence, it's only fair that you consider situations with no wasted crit reduction.