Jayde

Will see what I can do about the crit additions. I've been torn on it because, at least for GH usage, crit isn't very good from a pure healing numbers perspective. Sure, occasionally you get a crit on a lower rank GH on a tank now and again, but generally if one is picking their heal ranks smartly crits aren't going to do too much more than OH in most occasions.

However, it's probably still important data to show now that I have time... I will add a column for it on the calculations sheet and an option to toggle it on/off for the healing pool numbers, or perhaps have a crit overheal% option. Since it's useful for CoH, I do want to have it on the calculations sheet at least.

Verad, I have some fixes to make to a couple haste items so I will see about adding that item as well. Thanks.

 

Bendyr

Probably cause it's not a good wand for PVE. Given the stats that Jayde tracks, the [Blue Diamond Witchwand], [Luminescent Rod of the Naaru] and [Carved Witch Doctor's Stick] are all better choices, and obtainable in pre-T6 content. If you suddenly care about stamina, you might consider the PVP wand better than the Witch Doctor's Stick, but Jayde's spreadsheet doesn't factor stam in at all.

If you are severely lacking in stam on your other pieces, it's not necessarily a bad choice though.

 

Bendyr

So right now, how much do you value crit at?

Right now I barely value crit at anything, and I'm wondering if now that I'm CoH, if I should start looking at crit gear?

 

ilkori

http://elitistjerks.com/699655-post73.html has what you are looking for here.


-- removed --
See correction below.

"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

Jayde

I have basically finished adding full support for crit and haste in the sheet now, however I'm waiting to double-check some numbers/logic before I publish it. Probably tomorrow.

ilkori, your comments do somewhat concern me that I may have missed something... as I seem to be getting much higher returns from crit than you mention. Granted, it is still a crappy stat even with my number, but I'm not showing it as nearly so low as 0.133:1 when compared to healing.

Here are my current formulas for Circle of Healing in particular:
Heal = (Base + Stats_Healing * BaseCoefficient * LevelCoefficient) * (1 + (0.02 * Talents_SpiritualHealing)) * (1 + (0.5 * Stats_Critical))

HealingPool = Heal * MaxCasts

HealUpgrade = ((Base + (Stats_Healing + 1) * BaseCoefficient * LevelCoefficient) * (1 + (0.02 * Talents_SpiritualHealing)) * (1 + (0.5 * Stats_Critical))) * MaxCasts - HealingPool
CritUpgrade = ((Base + Stats_Healing * BaseCoefficient * LevelCoefficient) * (1 + (0.02 * Talents_SpiritualHealing)) * (1 + (Stats_Critical + (1 / 22.08 / 100)))) * MaxCasts - HealingPool

In most cases of my input values, crit has been worth roughly 0.9ish healing for most spells. (This is with 2.3k healing, 2% haste, and 11.7% crit.)

Could be my brain is a bit tired from overtime here... but not seeing the mistake. After comparing what I'm using, it basically seems identical to your formula in the other thread. (To a point, it's somewhat moot... as crit still fails pretty miserably compared to +healing considering its item budget usage.) Thoughts?

 

Turgid

I'd like to request that you add stamina to the stat pages for each item, if possible. It doesn't have to be explicitly weighted in the formulae, but if 2 items are within ~5-10 points of each other and one has 10 stamina and the other has 25, it's a compelling argument if you're a little low on hp. And, it can also be useful for constructing a stamina set.

 

Jayde

I will add Stamina for my next version after the Crit/Haste changes.. have some plans for that, but wanted to get the larger sheet overhauls out of the way first.

 

ilkori

You are right.

There was at least one error in the spreadsheet I made. It is a pretty big error in terms of crit. I had the base value of crit as a whole number (i.e. 11.7% crit = 11.7 spreadsheet input). Additional crit had a multiplier of .01 and was displayed as a percentage. Then the two were added on equal terms. This did several things to the analysis, starting with giving my base healing too high of a value. Really, I should have caught that error since my average CoH was healing at over 5k per person instead of ~1k.

By modifying the inputs to both be X% = X on the input, I corrected the other side of it to be a factor of (1 + 0.005*C), and now get close to .9 crit rating = 1 healing. Now I get to go re-write that post...

"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." - Walt Disney

 

Jayde

Ah, ok... was trying to determine if I was crazy or not. Thanks for looking at it.

Either way, crit still isn't very good--it's unpredictable and budgeted as far more expensive considering it's still only .9:1 or so. Looking at raw terms, for instance, the [Hammer of Atonement] ends up being quite good--better than the [Lightfathom Scepter] given my stats currently. (Incidentally, with the haste values now [Dark Blessing] seemingly ends up being better than both of them.)

However, crit is simply so hard to rely on and generally leads primarily to overhealing in my experience.

I will upload the newest version tomorrow which contains all the haste/crit changes. I have added an option to toggle crits on or off, for reasons as stated above.

 

Jayde

Uploaded v1.10
priest_healing.xls - FileFront.com

-Full support for crit calculations (this is toggleable via the 'Enable Crit?' setting)
-Full support for haste
-Added input for character crit and haste ratings
-Added weapon oils to the buff list
-Added a proper Shadowfiend regen model
-Added Iridescent Fire Opal and Quick Lionseye to the gem list
-Added proper crit/haste values to the gear sheets due to them being weighted now (e.g. Dark Blessing, Hammer of Attonement)
-Added a couple missing items to the gear sheets

Going to start working on integrating stamina into the sheet next.

 

Bendyr

Jayde- can you clarify how you have modeled the t5 4-piece set bonus? How much do you weight it at?

 

Jayde

The T5 2-set is modeled currently as Mp5, assuming you get it on 90% of your GH casts (which isn't too far off for well-chosen GH rank usage) but using the Calculations_GH5SRCast speed (adjusted for OO5SR% time) to calculate it out instead of the base cast time. Usually end up being around 25-28 Mp5. This is split into all selected "Yes" pieces on the equipment pages.

T6 4-set is added to all GH calculations, but for the purposes of equipment pages it is added as average +healing contribution across all GH ranks divided across all "Yes" pieces.

The T5 4-set (3s duration on Renew) is not in 1.10, but it's in 1.11. It's added in to the Renew section of the sheets in terms of it's total heal amount and HPS/c values. I'm not currently weighting it beyond that yet.

I've also added the T6 2-set in 1.11, which will now properly adjust the values for PoH. This is also not considered in the gear weighting sheets.

However, if you want to know the current impact of T5 4-set, Renew 12 is basically this with my current stats:
Without: 4345 healing, 2957.9 HPS/c, 10.50 HPM
With: 5215 healing, 3549.5 HPS/c, 12.60 HPM

Of course, assuming you are refreshing Renew every CD it goes from being 414 mana every 15s to every 18s, which I suppose would be 23 Mp5. Guess it isn't as non-trivial as I supposed, looking at it. I will consider adding it to the gear weights.

 

Bendyr

Yeah I'm really only concerned with the mana conservation... I'm not even sure how you model it, given that I keep renew up on 3 tanks in some fights.

As for the other benefit of 4-piece t4 (the extra time/gcd to cast other spells), i'm not really sure how you'd model it.

 

Anh

I love breaking out the 4 piece tier 5 bonus on Gurtogg Bloodboil for raid healing. We have a CoH priest, shaman, and myself (improved DS) on bloodboil healing. I constantly keep renew up on the bloodboil groups and my healing output is competitive with the CoH priest. Here is a WWS from last week. I feel that the bonus is worth much more than 23 mp5.

In your assumption, do you also assume that you only keep on refreshing renew on a single target?

 

Jayde

Of course, that would be for each target one keeps Renew active for. However, unless I added some special way to set it up in the sheet (seems a bit narrow for just 1 setbonus) I think it would only be "fair" as a general rule to assume 1 single target--as that is pretty much a given in most cases, as tossing a Renew on the MT is pretty common practice.

 

gasilia

Hi, great work the spreadsheet.

But trying to use it I got some questions
The healing staff from the second boss in magisters terrace doesnt seem to be in your list ([Rod of the Blazing Light]) ? - Naively I would have put it before the [Exodar Life-Staff]

And as I am barely havin access to epic gems, I tried to turn off the option epic gems, but it still uses them, thats normal?

Also I am a bit astonished that the blue dragon card seems so low compared to the earring and gruuls eye.
Does the calculation take into account that it also has a chance to proc of each heal of the CoH? or is it internal cooldown to high to be of real use?

I didnt try it in our fight of najentus, cause I was too low on hitpoints without a stamina trinket. But naively I would have prefered the card over the eye?

And when setting up the buff there are some seem not to allow to change the settings (mana regen, bonuses)

Can the problem be that I am using open office?

 

Bendyr

1) I would agree with you about the staves, but remember that Jayde's current spreadsheet does not weight Stam at all, which may be why you're getting the rod devalued slightly.

2) The blue dragon card does not have an internal cooldown, but it does not have an increased proc chance from multi-target spells, which is why it's not as OP as the Eye of Gruul for CoH. Jayde's numbers here seem to match up with my WWS numbers.

3) Yeah the spreadsheet's dropdown boxes don't seem to be working well with open office or google docs for me either.

 

Bendyr

Jayde- I would also consider adding the [Flask of Chromatic Wonder] to your spreadsheet. I have it valued at about 66.33 healing when I plug it into your spreadsheet, but I'm not positive I'm doing it right...

If that's right, it's still only the 4th best flask option, but it's nice to know that it's not too far behind, and is still a good choice for resist fights.

 

gasilia

Possible, but what makes me wonder is that I dont find it in the breakdown of all the staffs, where I can find non epic ones. It seemed to me that it was missing completely.


This doesnt fit with my findings.
This evening raiding MH I put on both trinkets, blue dragon and gruul eye.
WWS tells me I have 44 procs of gruul eye and 39 of the blue dragon with roughly 1400 hits of COH and perhaps 500 of other heals
WWS Loading...
so it looks to me that both trinkets have a similar behavior on COH.
Would perhaps need some confirmation but that's why I value the card quite high.

 

• Psykal

As far as I am aware WWS only records the parts of CoH that actually land on a player, meaning a CoH that hits 1 person counts for 1 CoH hit and a CoH that hits 5 people counts for 5 CoH hits.

Let's say you cast 1000 CoHs and they all hit 1 person. Statistically there would be 20 Eye procs and 20 Blue Dragon procs.

On the other hand, if each CoH hit 5 people then you would expect 100 Eye procs and only 20 Blue Dragon procs.

These are extreme scenarios but I suspect that most of your CoHs were closer to the first scenario, which is why your data looks a little skewed. Looking at the log you were doing MH trash and a bunch of Anetheron attempts. I don't find CoH hitting 5 people too often here, really only on melee groups, so this seems believable.

The best way to test how the Blue Dragon trinket interacts with CoH is in a fight where your CoH is likely to hit all 5 targets, like Gurtogg Bloodboil, RoS p2/p3 or Hex Lord Malacrass.

 

Jayde

I've added [Rod of the Blazing Light] for the next version. (Better than Exodar Life-Staff, worse than Staff of Dark Mending or Ethereum Life-Staff, as far as I can see.) Stamina weighting will also be in.

Not sure what you mean in regard to being surprised at Blue Dragon "being so low." At least with my stats, it typically comes in as the #1 or #2 direct healing trinket. (CoH + Eye of Gruul being disregarded, of course, if I'm not looking only at CoH numbers.)

It will be heavily affected by your chosen OO5SR% (will eat into both the regen value and the proc rate) and additionally devalued somewhat if you are using PMC, however. (The passive 5% bonus to I5SR regen takes away from the proc value.)

I have added Flash of Chromatic Wonder as well--ended up being about the same as Mighty Restoration for me, surprisingly enough.

In regard to Stamina weighting, here is my current premise:
a) Will allow you to enter a target unbuffed HP value--for the purposes of my testing, I'm going with 8000 currently
b) Looks at the "total best" score of equipment at your chosen tier level, and figures out the ratio of needed stamina to total optimal equipment set value
c) Values Stamina at the ratio of needed Stamina vs. total best equipment set value

In my case, "max gear tier 6" with my current stats results in a total item set value of 4438. With 470 stamina needed to meet my target HP goal, that means that it gets a weighting of 0.106, needing an average of 29.38 stamina per non-trinket slot to meet my target.

This seems to be the most resonable way to do it from a numeric point of view. Any thoughts?

It will take me a few more days to get the next version sorted, as I have a lot of stamina numbers to input to the equipment sheets.

 

gasilia

If you look at the log you see that I was healing mainly the CAC group and the tank group.
And as I am usually paying attention that my COH hits more than 2 people I dont agree to your analysis that my findings are due to the fact that I was healing one person only with a COH.

But I will do another log when I am next time healing the CAC on Najentus.

 

gasilia

I said I am quite surprised, cause based on what I saw in the statistiques for me I always had the feeling that the dragon card does proc similar to eye of gruul.

I did some tries one day with a group of 5 people in town spamming COH1 on them, and I got similar proc rates of 1:1 for Gruul eye and blue dragon.
Now maybe itis affected by whether you really heal your targets or not?
If the real heal done matters, than evaluation may be indeed more difficult

 

gasilia

I found a log from ZA, malacress:
WWS Loading...

I find 4 proc for 300 healing ticks.
280 ticks for COH, so if at least 4 people got healed this is 70 cast, +24 cast other heals 94 casts, If the blue dragon would proc on the direct cast and not on each tick of the COH I would expect to find 1 proc of the card, however I find 4 times more.

I agree the sample is quite small to give huge confidence level it would need more data.

 

• Psykal

Your results are interesting. I decided to test this out myself in BT. I used [Eye of Gruul] and [Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon] for the entire raid, which was Naj'entus up to Council.

Whole raid: Psykal - WWS
Circle of Healing hits: 3551
Total hits: 4537
Healing Trance: 103 (2.27% of total)
Aura of the Blue Dragon: 44 (0.54% of total)

High Warlord Naj'entus: WWS Loading...
Circle of Healing hits: 327
Total hits: 476
Healing Trance: 10 (2.10% of total)
Aura of the Blue Dragon: 4 (0.84% of total)

Gurtogg Bloodboil: WWS Loading...
Circle of Healing hits: 540
Total hits: 597
Healing Trance: 10 (1.67% of total)
Aura of the Blue Dragon: 1 (0.17% of total)

This isn't counting Renew, Prayer of Mending (both of which I cast a lot) and a bunch of other spells which would make the Blue Dragon percentages even smaller, since it can proc off any spell. Dividing the number of Circle of Healing hits by 3/4/5 puts the Blue Dragon procs at ~2%.

Is it possible that you had cast Renew and Prayer of Mending a lot? Blue Dragon can proc from these but the Eye can't.