◊ Penguin

On normal mobs Taunt carries the same resist penalties as a spell, which means there is always a 1% chance to be resisted. It is obvious that Brutallius has been modified as tanks would be looking at 17% resist rate with no +hit, making the encounter somewhere between a dice roll and russian roulette. It is interesting that Demo and TC got added to the modification as well, as various levels of +hit have never affected their chance to be resisted.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

Gnok

One suggestion I have, and it may be mentioned in the 50 pages, is to buy/use depleted crystal focuses to get Charged Crystal Focuses. They share the same cooldown as healthstones, not healing pots. But I have a hard time questioning someone with such an amazing understanding of prot warriors, lol. If I'm off base, please tell me.

Fury warrior here, btw.

 

galzohar

Since in a coordinated raid you'll have 3 different ranks of healthstones (a 0/0 from the affliction warlock, 2/2 from a destruction warlock and a 1/2 from a destruction warlock that knew the other warlock has 2/2 is generally the best way to do this) you don't really want to use the cooldown on anything else.

On a side note, ironshields will save your ass much better than health potions do, although I guess not everyone are hardcore enough to use the potion before you actually require it (although to be honest you need to be very anti-hardcore to turn down a 2500 armor increase).

 

◊ Vaccine

I didn't pay too much attention on the trash, but the Twins certainly have the buff as I was noticing the normal decrease in my dodge rate I get on all other bosses in there.

 

• Erlaya

I have been trying to compare the relative values of trinkets going into sunwell


Shadowmoon Insignia - 3min Cooldown
-36 Defense Rating (15.22 Defense - .6% Dodge/Parry/Miss or 1.8% avoidance)
-32 Dodge Rating (1.69%)
-On Use 1750 Health Maximum for 20 seconds
Moroes Pocketwatch - 2min Cooldown
-38 Dodge Rating (2.01%)
-On Use 300 Dodge Rating for 10 Seconds (~16%)
Commendation of Kael'thas - 30second Internal CD
-57 Stamina
-152 Dodge Rating for 10seconds sub 35% health (~8%)

With the massive avoidance reduction the first two seem like the best choice since they offer a passive 5.5% avoidance along with Cooldowns for 1750 health and 16% additional avoidance..However I notice most tanks using the Commendation for most fights...usually coupled with Moroes Pocketwatch (for the oh shit ability). I am not really good at the math but which trinkets are actually best for overall survivability on Boss fights?

Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed. -Don Wood

 

Suchislife

My thoughts with the Commendation of Kael'thas are that on a fight where you are taking huge incoming damage that the simple up time of the proc makes it worth while. On Brutallus or a fight that hits hard like brut the trinket would proc often and the potential of the commendation is 4 procs or the one use of the morose pocket watch + 57 stam(wich alot of times seems to be life and death). So its 57stam +150 dodge rating for potentialy 40 seconds over the 2 minute coolddown of the pocketwatch vs 2% avoidance and a use for 16% dodge rating every 2 minutes. However most tanks dont hit the pocket watch on everycool down as you said its more of a panic button and in all likleyhood you wont be at 35% hp everytime the internal CD is over.

anyway i dont play wow to do math im just a stam junky trying to justify my choice of trinkets.

 

• Riot

I think the SMI is something that deserves a permanent space in your pack. As far as the Commendation goes, it's a bit more situational, as is the Pocket Watch.

For example on Kalecgos the Commendation is probably a great trinket to use - you take tons of unavoidable damage, and the extra dodge is useful when/if it procs.

On comparison, the one-use of the Pocket Watch is great for a fight like Archimonde and Azgalor. Proactive/reactive use to bad fears etc. is pretty strong.

According to the LSAT examination, the opposite of hot is: A) Cold B) Not Hot

 

dssurge

Searched the thread, looking for some confirmation:

One-Hand Weapon Spec appears to be completely non-functional. I have since spec'd out of it and notice absolutely no difference in damage/threat output since the 2.4 patch came out.

With the talent the values in my character sheet were still displaying a 90% multiplier (which is something that was NOT there in 2.3.x.) While DWing in defensive stance the numbers used to indicate 100% damage main hand and 90% mod offhand, they are now both 90%. There is also no 10% gain in zerker or battle stance.

I will be respeccing over the weekend to confirm my suspicion, does anyone have any other information on this or is just a character sheet bug?

 

• Jamor

Def. keep us up to date on this. If it's not working, I could think of some nice things to do with those points till it gets fixed.

 

dssurge

Seems it was just a character sheet bug.

Based on the threat numbers I have been getting without it, I may still not spec into it. Damage difference seems fairly insignificant.

 

Efreet

10% increase to most every attack is pretty solid, albeit threat is so easy to come by it's not like you need it.

 

Suchislife

Im kind of curious as to peoples thoughts of using the Expertise trinket for threat gear. I've been trying it out in BT and so far im liking it. With the Gear i have on i have somthing like -11.5% to be dodged/parried its not immune but it is damn close. I tried it out on Mother the other night and instead of standing there and spounging OT saberlashes i put my lol prot dps on the boss 2 parries over the course of the fight so i was pretty impressed by that.

I was also woundering if anyone had any Proc per minute numbers on it. I used an hourglass in my dps gear forever but this thing kills it on procs. at some points it seemed to be going off every 10 swings or somthing crazy like that.

 

Liar

The trinket averages out at around 85 static AP.

While we are at Prot DPS, anyone else noticed losing their +6 Expertise from Defiance from time to time? Changing stances fixes it and it isn't too common to be much of a concern but it sure as hell is surprising to see my expertise dropping from 16 to 22 for no apparent reason (and the only reason I even check is because SCT has an "Overpower!" trigger when I should be really close to the dodge cap)

 

Obituary

How have other tanks been handling the increase in expertise but the drop in hit? Seems like most items in sunwell add expertise for hit and it's starting to get noticeable. Gemming for hit? Eating the loss?

 

Saburo

I have heard of another human (don't know if that is the issue) having the reverse problem:
Worldofraids forums :: Defiance Bug
I have noticed this and considered it quite a bit. When it comes down to it the only real need for hit over expertise is to ensure a SS on a low aggro transition or pull. I haven't actually tried it yet, but I was thinking about making a shield slam macro that swapped to Kazrogal shield (10 hit gem in it, possibly block value ench) and the throwing weapon out of MT then cast shield slam. This may encounter problems with latency, and will lower your hp from the swap, but i am fairly sure swapping items would work the same way using a trinket does and is not prone to latency problems. I could be completely wrong, but it gives you something to think about.

 

• Xaviera

Weapon swapping causes a 1.5 second global if you do it while in combat.

I'm just going to get extra pieces of the new T6 tokens and put hit in them to reach the hit cap, although with the new expertise stuff I may actually just continue using my extra Myrmidon's Treads with hit gems to be hit capped and expertise capped, haven't actually worked it all out yet in a template to see what's needed. The short version is there's such an enormous amount of threat generation stats on all gear now that I can't see threat ever being an issue ever again.

 

dssurge

Based on how easy it is to get expertise, I can honestly say I'll probably be using Pendant of the Titans and Myrm Treads (when I get a pair) forever. Having both and maybe 1-2 hit gems will account for ~4% hit which is more than fine in my books.

Resocketting T6 at some point for mitigation/hit may also be a realistic option. I'm still baffled why absolutely no tanking gear we've seen from Sunwell has hit rating.

 

Edgewalker

I would posture that the 15 missing Ilvls from Borderland grips will go into hit, and that they assume yellow sockets will be hit socketed in the future as well.

 

• Erlaya

Personally I think blizzard hopes we will actually start gemming for socket bonuses now. Yellow Red and get a +10hit and a +5/+7 to get the +3 stam bonus...Sure loss of some HP but in the long run better in my opinion. The other thing you can do is get yourself a Boomkin to put up +3% melee hit and/or have a non-spellcaster Draenai in your group for the +1 to hit.

I have actually considered rolling a draenai warrior for WotLK just for that reason. Still debating though which of the three alliance warrior classes make the best tank

Draenai - +1% Hit
Human - 5 Expertise on Swords/Maces
Night Elf - 1% Dodge

I know people will say if you want avoidance go night elf and for threat go Human. But based on how sunwell gear is set up I would think the Draenai would be the best at this level. If Blizzard continues this trend....*shrug*

Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed. -Don Wood

 

• Jamor

For threat and chance to land an attack, +hit and +expertise are essentially the same thing (past 6.5% expertise)...with the exception that +hit has more value against trash and bosses which require a taunt transition and are not modified (basically Kalecgos). Expertise is better for bosses that parry haste. I can put together a pretty nice +hit / expertise set. Having the sword from mother gives a lot of flexibility for that kind of stuff for me. Although once I get the sword from Kalecgos, I will probably use that for just about everything.

As far as threat from a general perspective, the only time it even matters at this point is on Felmyst. Getting a nice lead gives ranged more nuking while she is in the air in the first transition. Other than that, it's not anything more than a 'pay attention' type mechanic on any other.

 

• Xaviera

Do you actually think that Borderland Fortress Grips are under budget? I actually assumed they were overbudget due to the oddities with where they drop and such. When you compare them to items with similar iLvL they just completely dominate them, I think the internal ilvl tag of them is just off, along with their armor. I may be wrong, though, but I'd certainly be amazed if they get more stats besides just their armor value.

 

Amorpheus

I think we can safely assume that the gloves' 141 ilvl and armor value are simply erroneous, and the rest is correct.

Has anyone made progress on the parry-cap testing front? I could get up to 13,5% reduction, probably straight 15% (if the rating adds up to a full point) when the badge vendor opens, but I'm not sure if I'd really use the legs - and in Badge Money that'd be 1,3k Gold just for testing.

"You are better than I am," Inigo admitted.
"So it seems. But if that is true, then why are you smiling?"
"Because," Inigo answered, "I know something you don't know."
"And what is that?" asked the man in black.
"I'm not left-handed."

 

Saburo

Ah my mistake, for whatever reason spell reflect seems not effected by this, probably intended, I assumed it would extend to shield slam but apparently not. You could, however, start the pull with a +hit shield then swap it immediately after the shield slam. Presumably the GCD would over lap the GCD penalty of the weapon swap.

 

• Tauftamir

At the moment I'm just eating the loss of +Hit, since even in full avoidance gear, you have so much rage that between the extra Expertise from Sunwell gear and the fact you can Heroic on every swing I've not encountered threat issues yet.
Obviously you can keep some items with +Hit on them in your bags to use if Taunt/Threat become more important to you.

Xaviera, I noticed on your Armory Profile you took Leatherworking. What kind of experience are you having using Drums as a Tank?
I'm not really getting much in the way of benefit from Alchemy, but I'm finding hard to get excited about [Hard Khorium Goggles] while sporting the Faceplate, and Leatherworking is the only other profession which seems to be worth considering at the moment.

 

• Jamor