The Protection Guide - Page 86

nfw · 10/10/08, 1:05 PM

I have not seen any mention of the new Mocking Blow, is it worth it to use it as part of the regular rotation, or still save it for emergencies?

Oakenshield_Drenden · 10/12/08, 6:08 PM

Ok, so I know that as of 3.0 the defense talent has been removed, shield block changed, and some of the defense values have been reduced on gear.

Have there been any accompanying changes in what's required to be uncrittable/uncrushable?

I've scanned a bunch of pages and not seen this covered - if it is and I just missed it pls advise what page of the thread it is on...

Reliknom · 10/12/08, 6:14 PM

Crushing blows are out, uncrittable has the same requirement as before.

cain of Cenarius · 10/13/08, 1:45 AM

Crit immune is 540 now. or 690 rating.

Reliknom · 10/13/08, 7:28 AM

I think he meant for level 70, and crit immune doesn't change for that - aside from the talent changing to 5% dodge and having to make up for that loss in gear, though I can't imagine a serious tank who couldn't remain uncrittable without any gear changes.
At level 80 you will of course need more defense and even more def rating, as both the skill requirements and the scaling between rating and skill will change upwards.

Frostbolte · 10/13/08, 4:23 PM

Under gems you didn't list [Glinting Pyrestone].

I feel it's a gem often over looked by tanks.

Liar · 10/13/08, 8:39 PM

Originally Posted by Frostbolte

Under gems you didn't list [Glinting Pyrestone].

I feel it's a gem often over looked by tanks.

Because it really isn't that good. If you want Hit, go for the 10 Hit gem. If you want avoidance, go for the 10 Dodge one. I never understood people who would socket 10 Agi gems either, but hey, whatever makes them happy, I guess (ye, I know it gives AC, dodge and crit but it's not the best for either stat). <_<

Chardonnay · 10/14/08, 6:06 PM

If parry cap against bosses is 13.75%, how was I parried by ZulJin in my expertise capped gear?
It happened in phase5, I can't tell anything else - the WWS log filter is too clunky, I can't filter for aura gains of the boss. Maybe he's using deterrence or something like that, but I cannot check.
WWS is here >>

Armory down, so I attach a screenshot of the gear I've used on ZJ:

Also I get occasionally crushed by Janalai in my passive uncrushable set. This always happens just after he returns to me after a bombing phase, so it may be a latency error (the server thinks I'm not in front of the boss?), but it's strange nevertheless.

• Erlaya · 10/14/08, 6:23 PM

Can't remember who but someone did the testing and came up with 64 Expertise to cap Parry.

JamesVZ · 10/14/08, 6:55 PM

Negative, The Protection Guide

16% was one of the initial numbers being thrown around, but purely anecdotal as I recall.

Warrok · 10/14/08, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by Liar

Because it really isn't that good. If you want Hit, go for the 10 Hit gem. If you want avoidance, go for the 10 Dodge one. I never understood people who would socket 10 Agi gems either, but hey, whatever makes them happy, I guess (ye, I know it gives AC, dodge and crit but it's not the best for either stat). <_<

I agree with you on Hit and Avoidance (similar reason for not picking Parry), but there could still be a point in picking Agi or Agi/Hit. It's meeting socket bonuses in a threat set, where these are worthwhile for whatever reason. It might also help with smoothing out stats balance. Note that Agi scales with BoK and a tank gets a lot out of it: Crit (TPS), Dodge (Avoidance), Armor (Mitigation). Sure it's not the best in either category, but it keeps the balance. You could equally ask why did Blizzard put so much Agi on tier sets. Of course with 3.0 Agi on tier sets is (mostly) a thing of the past.

On a different note, I'd like to know if one has ever quantified the exact TPS increase of parry. Since Blizzard put an avoidance penalty on parry it would be nice to know whether this penalty is justified or not.

Oakenshield_Drenden · 10/14/08, 10:55 PM

Ok, so as I work on getting un-crittable again...

Before I regem/re-enchant anything, can you guys check my math on how much resilience helps with this. I've got a 31 resilience shield and am trying to figure out how much defense that is equivalent to from 'uncrittable' standpoint.

I'm sitting on 483 defense skill with my avoidance set, so need about the equivalent of 8 defense skill to achieve crit immunity.

Based on the formulas at the start of the post, 8 defense skill equates to about .32 crit immunity.

31 Resilience (what my shield has) equates to about .786 crit immunity. So, I should be good to go as is from a crit immunity standpoint....as a matter of fact I have about .46 'left over', so have about the equivalent of 12 defensive skill to play with - I'm good from 471 as long as I carry the shield.

Am I thinking about this correctly?

Healranktwo · 10/15/08, 1:45 AM

anyone else loving the new patch? I can't AE tank like my paladin counterpart, but I don't feel like i'm lacking there anymore. Threat is also a non issue, and it's nice to finally be able to wear my top end gear and not worry about threat.

Gamli · 10/15/08, 2:32 AM

Hey guys i want to get some feedback on a build i have been playng with.

First and foremost though, since the patch hit this morning i think i have had more fun in the last 3 hours playing prot then i have in the last 2 years. I hope everyone is enjoying it just as much as i am.

Anyhow here is the build i am currently using...and i know nothing is set in stone at the moment..but some feedback would be great.

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Warrior -> Talent Calculator

My conerns are:

1. How much better of would i be putting points in cruelty as opposed to armed to the teeth?

2. Is putting points in concussion blow and vigilance a waste of time? And would i better saving those 2 points for something else?

3. Or have i completely missed the boat with my current spec, by not taking certain changes into account?

Any ideas would be great.

Chardonnay · 10/15/08, 3:11 AM

Originally Posted by Erlaya

Can't remember who but someone did the testing and came up with 64 Expertise to cap Parry.

I don't know about that... But 13.75% was confirmed in this very thread. Which now seems false. I noticed another parry in yesterday's WWS - Akilzon did a parry aswell.

biatch0 · 10/15/08, 3:20 AM

From personal preference:

1 - I think these 2 are pretty even at 70. Ideally, I'd like to have both... but I'm a couple of talent points short at 70

2 - Conc blow is a pretty useful tool (maybe not so much in raids) and after the "buff" it's even better IMO. I'll save my judgement on vigilance for when Tichondrius is stable enough for me to actually try out stuff.
3 - The build I plan to use is very similar to yours... just I chose not to go for Puncture. My points went into imp SW instead for raids.

EDIT: Also worth mentioning my warrior is still 0/0/0 after I gave up Tichondrius being up for 5 minute blocks earlier today so I haven't tried anything out.

Darkrenown · 10/15/08, 6:59 PM

Originally Posted by Healranktwo

anyone else loving the new patch? I can't AE tank like my paladin counterpart, but I don't feel like i'm lacking there anymore. Threat is also a non issue, and it's nice to finally be able to wear my top end gear and not worry about threat.

Yes indeed! I ran a heroic shattered halls with guildies tonight because my server was too unstable to raid on. I just charged about TCing and Shockwaving, everything stuck to me like glue. The charging caused some multipack pulls, but that didn't matter. If TC missed them CS is on a 3 min CD anyway. I ended up doing the most overall damage too.

Ketrew · 10/15/08, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by Healranktwo

anyone else loving the new patch? I can't AE tank like my paladin counterpart, but I don't feel like i'm lacking there anymore. Threat is also a non issue, and it's nice to finally be able to wear my top end gear and not worry about threat.

My guild and I had a blast last night in Sunwell. Yes, our addons were a mess and yes, most of us might as well have been rolling our faces across the keyboard but we ripped through the content regardless without any problems.

Our Protection Paladin could not make it so I tanked the Felmyst skeletons and it was a snap and pretty damn fun!

◊ Fellwraith · 10/16/08, 2:03 AM

It's a minor thing now, but there's finally a 5 hit / 6 stam gem in game thanks to the unified physical/spell hit mechanics. Vivid chysoprase from Slave Pens is a pretty decent gem for yellow slots.

UselessManaBattery · 10/16/08, 9:47 AM

Hey what kind of TPS are you guys pumping out now with the new junk added.

Ive been seeing a lot of high numbers flying for my warrior, especially when I crit shield slams for 3600 with shield block and the BRD coin

Khab · 10/16/08, 10:24 AM

I'm sitting around 1200 DPS while tanking and around 3~4k TPS

According to my maths i can maximized prot spec to 1500DPS while tanking, but i still not getting used to new change and bad UI make it hard to maximized anything.

I even try to take with Armspec 53/8/0 and my TPS stay around 2000~2500 thx to Shield Slam and MS and TM.

Spoks · 10/16/08, 11:42 AM

Yesterday I was in the Black Temple with my raid. We usually struggled there and couldn't quite down the first 6 bosses in our 3 raiding days fast enough to try mother. Now with all the changes we breezed through them in just 2,5 hours. What we previously lacked in skill and concentration we compensated with brute force (less mob health, higher damage, no threat issues).

As far as I understand from the changes, most threat goes from inherent threat to the damage. So the more damage ability does, the better it is. From the raid I saw that the four most damaging abilities are Shield Slam, Revenge, Concussion Blow and Shockwave. Those were the first I triggered (along with keeping up the debufs).

From the incoming damage perspective - I felt that magical abilities still presented a challage, but the damage from swings has gone way down and much less spiky. Same for trash, I had no problem surviving even when we accidentally pulled all the trash groups except one from Akamas room at once.

Thats no theorycraft, but just my feelings. Maybe it helps.

EDIT, not so OFF-TOPIC: Warbringer just rocks in PvP. I did some BGs with my protection spec and didn't feel the need to switch stances away from defensive. Also the stuns, shield wall on 5min cooldown, increased damage, buff removal with shield slam and other things rock to the point I felt real powerfull. Might be also due to me overgearing the opposition (I was in my PvP gear - everything you can possibly get below 1700 rating - I'm not that good in arenas).

• Jamor · 10/16/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by Fellwraith

It's a minor thing now, but there's finally a 5 hit / 6 stam gem in game thanks to the unified physical/spell hit mechanics. Vivid chysoprase from Slave Pens is a pretty decent gem for yellow slots.

Totally didn't think about that gem. Nice. Also note, that the former 15 spell hit rating to gloves is now also the unified hit. So that is a great spot to help fill in your hit. Also note that Skull of Guldan is now hit with a haste use -- sounds like a prot trinket to me

Single target threat is pretty much a joke -- the only way you could lose aggro is if someone start attacking the mobs as soon as you do and you are waiting on rage. From what I have seen with AE tanking -- we are pretty good, but I found that having the casters wait until you get mobs positioned and then Shockwaved really helps. I lost a few mobs through a BT and Sunwell powerclear when I would miss the shockwave cone. But overall, seemed pretty nice.

Sambuca · 10/16/08, 5:35 PM

Hey all, wondering what you guys are doing with gems and such now. I have had to change some yellow and reds after the patch so I'm thinking of putting [Bold Living Ruby] into my red slots now. Are they better than [Inscribed Noble Topaz] ?? I stopped raiding so I'm not into epic gems or min/max and such anymore, mainly doing heroics and kara/za til xpac hits. Any other recommendations as far as gems go? thanks in advance

• Erlaya · 10/16/08, 5:51 PM

The only change I really think about making in terms of tanking gems is 5str/7stam instead of 5agi/7stam.