Working Theories of Theorycrafting as of 2.3 - Page 2

Ise · 12/20/07, 8:02 AM

Long time reader, first time poster. Hello everyone!

Melee

- The estimated amount of Expertise to remove dodge from the combat table against bosses is 23 Expertise (91 Expertise Rating). Parry rates are unknown at this time but are estimated to be higher and are probably variable from one boss to the next.

This seems to be slightly incorrect, as bosses’ dodge rate is thought to be (around) 6.5% and not 5.6% anymore. 26 Expertise would be the correct number for 6.5%, while 23 Expertise would be for 5.6%. The first post of the thread Roguecraft 101 (section “Regarding the Hit and Expertise Caps”) mentions 6.5% as well.
By the way, I’m looking for the exact thread in which the new percentage was tested. Couldn’t find it neither with the forum search nor with google constricted to elitistjerks.com.

gnougat · 12/25/07, 8:43 AM

One very minor, but often not considered, thing you might want to add:

On bosses that hit slow and hard, avoid giving the warrior tank windfury totem. The extra rage(he won't need it anyway) is not worth the extra chance for the boss to parry the potential windfury procs, triggering an instant attack. Chain parries can kill a tank pretty quick.

Edit: While talking about parry, might wanna add that some consider Expertise to be one of the better tanking stats, because it helps with threat generation, and also mitigation (less parries = less burst damage).

Aramul · 12/25/07, 4:08 PM

Expertise rating is not listed in the linked post (obviously due to age), and should be included with the new haste rating conversions for completeness.

foxglove · 12/27/07, 11:33 AM

- Hit rating applies to Taunt mechanics in the same way it applies to melee attacks. 142 rating is required to reach the taunt cap.

Is there some data or testing somewhere supporting this? Does the "taunt cap" imply a 100% taunt hit rate, or do taunts still have the inevitable 1% resist rate that spells do? The only other data I've found regarding post-2.3 taunt mechanics is in the 2.3 Miss rate vs. boss mobs thread, and it's largely anecdotal.

Nite_Moogle · 12/27/07, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by foxglove

Is there some data or testing somewhere supporting this? Does the "taunt cap" imply a 100% taunt hit rate, or do taunts still have the inevitable 1% resist rate that spells do? The only other data I've found regarding post-2.3 taunt mechanics is in the 2.3 Miss rate vs. boss mobs thread, and it's largely anecdotal.

Due to the general annoyance of getting to any boss NPC and the long cooldown on taunt, there's no conclusive data on whether or not there is a cap that I am aware of. This is just not a fun thing to test.

PSGarak · 01/03/08, 7:40 PM

There was some stuff about one- or two-roll system for caster dps in this thread Quick question about 1 roll or 2 roll system for casters - Elitist Jerks. The gist of it is, testing seems to indicate a two-roll system for spells, and there is crit rate depression when attacking a mob of a higher level. Exact mechanics of the crit-rate depression are currently unknown, and difficult to test, we only have enough data to conclude that it exists*. Since both spells and rogue specials are on a two-roll system, it would seem reasonable to conclude that all special attacks are on a 2-roll system (or even a higher number).

*my own crackpot theory is that the rating system uses the level of the mob rather than the level of the caster. Other possibilities include straight subtractive or multiplicative reductions.

Rob · 01/12/08, 12:13 AM

Nitpick:
It's spelled errata, not eratta. But I would not use the term as you have, since it indicates corrections (not merely extra notes). Maybe miscellanea is a more suitable word?

Tymir · 01/14/08, 7:08 PM

You may want to change:

Mage
- 10/47/3 is the best PVE raw damage spec

to

Mage
- 2/47/11 is the best PVE raw damage spec

Icy Veins provides more raw damage than Arcane Concentration.

JTB · 01/15/08, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by Ise

Long time reader, first time poster. Hello everyone!

same 4 me.

--

when klick the link to the shadowpriest spreadsheet, there occures an error,telling me that im not allowed to watch that post.
has somebody a correct link?

edit:
eh. sorry wrong version of the topic i think.-my topic was:
Working Theories of Theorycrafting as of 2.1 - Elitist Jerks
and the link that doesnt work was:
Shadow Priest DPS Spreadsheet

alkis · 01/15/08, 6:02 AM

A nice addition to this would be some known facts about how magical resistance works. Facts like 150 resistance guarantees at least a 25% partial resist, what the cap is (365??) and why 363 resistance is much worse than 365.

Nite_Moogle · 01/15/08, 3:45 PM

Updated to reflect the recent Mage changes.

Toskk · 01/23/08, 1:27 PM

In regards to glancing blows.. I would very much like to clear up the "~25% glancing rate" estimate with a hard formula on how glancing blow chance is calculated. In particular, I've seen suggestions that the glancing blow rate might well be calculated at 25.00% of landed blows (anything that isn't miss/dodge/parry) rather than 25.00% of all attacks. Does anyone happen to have any really good data on glancing blow rate, or would be willing to put it to the test?

Along those same lines, I have heard a number of suggestions that recorded crit rates for yellow and/or white attacks are falling considerably lower than the character sheet values indicate.. and again I do not have solid enough data on this topic.

Unfortunately, an accurate test on either of these requires:

1). only data against raid level bosses (no adds can be counted).
2). an extreme duration of the fight.. on the order of 30 straight minutes.
3). recorded from behind the target (to eliminate parries, which are another unknown chance)
4). a static hit, crit, and expertise value. These need to remain constant through the entire fight recording time.

Does anyone happen to know how to engineer such a fight, or better yet have data?

• Aldriana · 01/23/08, 4:02 PM

I suspect the way to manufacture such a thing involves doing something akin to what was done in a prior weapon skill thread: take a tank, a melee dps, and a healer, and beat away at the snake boss in ZG - he heals himself, so won't die quickly (eventually he runs out of mana, but I believe the pallies took almost 50 minutes to get to that point).

However, I'd be utterly shocked if it turns out to be 25% of hits, as that flies in the face of the well established and demonstrated 1-roll theory that we've been using for well over a year.

Toskk · 01/23/08, 4:19 PM

Originally Posted by Aldriana

I suspect the way to manufacture such a thing involves doing something akin to what was done in a prior weapon skill thread: take a tank, a melee dps, and a healer, and beat away at the snake boss in ZG - he heals himself, so won't die quickly (eventually he runs out of mana, but I believe the pallies took almost 50 minutes to get to that point).

However, I'd be utterly shocked if it turns out to be 25% of hits, as that flies in the face of the well established and demonstrated 1-roll theory that we've been using for well over a year.

Yes, I agree that a 2roll mechanic for white attacks and glances is perhaps a bit improbable, however I've definitely seen enough strangeness (even statistically significant strangeness) in combat logs to warrant some testing. I'd heard that the snake boss in ZG was probably the best boss to test against

I don't suppose those pallies left their combat log online somewhere?

• Aldriana · 01/24/08, 3:13 AM

Thread is [Rogue/Warrior] Weapon Skill Adjustment Discussion and the summary of paladin results is in post 64. Data isn't exactly what you were looking for, but it's something to look at for starters.