Daidalos

I'd be very surprised if in the patch to nerf relic swapping they also removed the GCD on in combat switching. Can anyone else duplicate Mynd's results?

Elemental Shaman calculations: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWuwb3e2IkuZKw

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Myndflame

Since you weren't able to duplicate my results, I tested it once again -> and now it doesn't work anymore.
Well - there are only two possibilities: 1) I've been too tired yesterday evening or 2) something went wrong on my client.
But to be honest - I think it must be 1). There's only one thing left to say: Big sorry for my false report...

 

Heffe

My guild is currently working on Brutallus and im woundering at what point i should stop stacking spell haste, im at 233 right now. (sorry for the bad english )

 

jaehunkin

For slash healing you don't need a whole lot of haste because its predictable damage and most of it should be healed by bouncing CH off the tank, so the amount you have is perfectly fine.
And you can never have too much haste, I roll with 340 haste and some shaman have over 450, it comes down to what you want to stack ( healing or haste) either choice is perfectly acceptable.

 

Instant

At what point should a Restoration Shaman start replacing gems with haste? Whats a good +heal and mp5 to have?


Edit: My profile chardev.org - A World of Warcraft character planner v.3.a

I will gladly take any feedback for changes.

 

rava

There isn't an easy answer for that. It's really dependent on raid composition, playstyle, and to a lesser extent, professions.

Are you going to have a shadow priest? If so, regen is less important when considering haste.
Do you dislike using potions/dark runes? You will probably hate haste because it destroys your mana.
Are you an Alchemist? Alchemist stone is pretty serious business, extra mana on demand vs flat mp/5 is solid.
Are you a Leatherworker? Depending on your group sometimes drums of restoration are the best option and give you a little extra regen.

As an example, I'm at like 27% haste/2400 healing/200mp5 excluding memento/alch stone and I have to chain pot and rune just to maintain rank 1 chain and keep es rolling on a tank. My guild is awesome and raids with 1 shadow priest so having that extra regen would give you some freedom, but you really need to get a feel for what works best for you and your limitations.

I'll have a croque monsieur, a paella, two mutton pills, and a stein of mead.

 

Instant

I am almost never in a group with a shadow priest. I am usually tossed in the melee group for WF. I dont mind chugging mana pots at all and I dont have the redeemers alchemist stone yet. Don't have faction.

 

Daidalos

I would really prefer this thread not be cluttered with every single person asking what they should do with their gear. Please read the wiki and check out the spreadsheets (either mine or binks) then make a decision based on your raid situation. If you have a question after doing all of that, something specific you didn't understand or you disagree with feel free to ask, but otherwise read and research before posting.

Elemental Shaman calculations: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWuwb3e2IkuZKw

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Instant

Obviously you spoke before you read. So let me restate.


At what point is good for a shaman to start thinking on taking haste. I heard one response and will look for others. I put my profile up just as a reference point to myself. As far as taking any feedback, that was a small part of the post and you seem to focus only on that.

 

Daidalos

On the contrary. Your post is in its entirely can be summed up as " when should someone start getting gear/gem <blah>". In this case the question is about haste.

First of all it depends it partly depends on your stats and your raiding environment. This is the point of spread sheets. You plug in your stats and buff and look at your hps regen and time till oom. Also if you had read this thread you would have noticed there are two popular opinions on how much haste to stack. One is that haste is always good assuming you aren't going oom. This is not necessarily due to the hps increase but simply due to it lowering the time from event to heal landing so that its basically always good to get more haste. The other opinion is simply to use haste when it provides a larger increase in hps than pure plus healing providing a balance of the 2.

Elemental Shaman calculations: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWuwb3e2IkuZKw

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

Maghun

We finally got muru down last night woot(with only 8% overheal go prebc healing ),and I have been thinking about the healing trinket he drops and how it would be useful. Basically I have done every fight in sunwell bar KJ and I believe it is viable to use at the following points.

kale - just after you pop out of demon phase.
brut - after a tuant if your slash healing
felmyst - time it when he goes into the air
Twins - after you kill the first twin.
Muru - p1-> p2 transition.

Currently I'm using memento and alchemy trinket so I'll wait awhile for this upgrade but believe it is very usable. Also would be amazing in arena .

WTB spire drops.

 

rava

Kalecgos - You have to wait for a buffet, then channel after the buffet for the duration until the next. Meanwhile your group and or tank are still taking damage while you are regenning 2k mana. I can't remember the last time I had mana problems on Kalecgos either.

Brutallus - Even as a slash healer I heal the MT during downtime to keep the armor buff up as well as relaying totems to avoid needing to/letting them fall during heavy damage periods. Due to the cooldown and channel time it's probably the last mana timer I'd use meaning you'd have to delay it's use until well into the fight.

Felmyst - I am almost full mana every air phase. You get so much regen time while she's in the air, and trying to devote a channel while lasers are going sounds like a poor idea to me.

Twins - Any number of things could go wrong here. You could need to reset your debuffs, get images on you, or get conflag breaking your channel and hurting the regen the trinket provides.

M'uru - The transition is when I get into my position, relay totems, and get peopled topped off. Throwing in a channel on top of that won't work, grats your regen is killed after 1 negative energy. Not to mention fight length and usage, you'll get 1 use out of the trinket on a decent length fight. We kill him in 6.5 minutes(which I would consider fast) and even at that length you're looking at 2000/390*20=25/5 with so many x factors I can't see any reason to use it over alch stone.

So much can happen in WoW in 8 seconds, and even with my haste % I still wouldn't brave that trinket. I'll stick to my passive mana on demand/regen trinkets and avoid the risk of losing 8 seconds of combat or random target abilities breaking the channel.

I'll have a croque monsieur, a paella, two mutton pills, and a stein of mead.

 

Maghun

To be honest your probably correct about just sticking with alchemist stone and memento, however I still believe the trinket is easily usable at all the points I suggested (possibly due to the strats my guild uses over yours). Caution needs to be taken when using it of course, but if shit does happen you can always cancel the channel (In which case your better sticking with the other trinkets). We also kill muru a lot faster then that last weeks kill was 5.5 minutes, I don't even get time to tide twice.

I guess I should stop worrying about it anyways since I never have mana problems even without a spriest.

 

Mizaru

Correct!

The only place I can see a use for this trinket in SWP is possibly Twins, because with "reverse" there is nothing really that prevents you from taking 8 seconds out of healing after the first one dies. Unless you have lost a few healers, or they are all crying out for mana (or all channeling the trinket )

I honestly think that Momento + Alchemist Stone is the best combo right now, however if your not an alchemist or have horrid luck with Illidan drops then the M'uru trinket still has its uses (Evocate works with haste, and can be interupted if you need to break it early).

 

darkflawless

I've been using the pretty outdated spreadsheet Shamstats, I've had to add a bunch of items including 2.4 Heroic Vendor items to it, but my problem is that I think it weights Haste far too heavily. I'm rocking what I think is a terrible 80 mp5 unbuffed, and it weights Haste to mp5 as 1.8:1.179, this puts items such as the blues from Normal MgT better than the Hyjal items that have mp5.

My guild is currently doing BT, and with an Illidan kill expected this week or next at the latest I fear that I am far from the mana regen that I should be. I realise that spreadsheets are just a guide, but I don't think that haste can be weighted this heavily when you lack other stats, I feel that the formula is flawed.

My point is that I don't feel that the only spreadsheet that's widely available and viable for restoration Shaman is anything that it should be, there is no spreadsheet that you can safely follow when starting from a low level of gear. Shamstats is only useful when comparing the final few items in the game and you're sat at huge stats, and even then it's not updated enough to do so.

I apologise if someone has made the same point as this already.

 

Plummer

The argument actually extends to HEPs and spreadsheets to be taken with large grains of salt even for well geared shamans. The very nature of healing and raid encounters makes saying stat x > stat y impossible because stat y could very well be greater than stat x in another encounter or at a certain gear level.

If you do need some kind of guideline to follow I would recommend looking at the restoration shaman theorycrafting think tank article where HEP values are given for different tiers of content and you can pick the one that best suits your needs. Keep in mind that they do assume a certain level of gear.

 

Mandrachalos

Well, also considering the post by someone else "you can never have enough haste":

Ofc you can have too much haste.
If you have to use CH1 in order not to go oom, you use too much haste obviously. You should be able to keep up CH2 at least - otherwise you should switch gear to get more +healing and MP5 instead of +haste.
And this comes from one of the biggest fans of haste as you can see if you read the whole thread.

The reason being CH1 sucks compared to CH2, as was already mentioned many times before in this thread. I dont have to use a spreadsheet to be sure that stacking so much haste that you can't keep up anything but CH1 is a bad decision to chose gear for a certain fight.
Like Daidalos mentioned once, having a haste value around 250-300 (maybe 350) is enough for fights in Sunwell. On some fights you might want to use more, but not at the cost of using CH1. Because that way you will heal less and less efficiently in every aspect.

 

Bahamabrahma

Shaman healing is not all based on mp5. It used to be everything, But late on I've discovered pulling mp5, int and + heal as my main stats is much more beneficial.

Here is why:

I raid two setups.

Haste and Regen.

My haste set is all + heal and haste(2300+heal, 285 haste), MP5 takes a huge dump(185) and I typically will use it on bt/hyjal trash (oh the numbers you can produce) and specific burst dmg/raid aoe dmg fights.

My regen set however has stats to the tune of:
2100+heal, 11kmana(Unbuffed), 290mp5(highest on the server(shaman), woot)

Those are really great numbers because basically I can use max rank chain heal(494 Mana), and chug pots and drum resto and mana tide with no real mana issues EVER.

Another thing ive ntoiced is that haste gear has much more INT than most.
An important thing to remember about shaman healing is how mana tide works.

The mana Return is based on your Mana pool, 6% of TOTAL mana/3 sec for 12 sec. Thats 4 ticks.
The larger the mana pool, the more return. Raid buffed ill be sitting at 13.5k mana. Use a flask of distilled wisdom(a much better choice than mp5) and that is an extra 1k mana. My point is, stacking int in your flasks and pots will help with haste gear, for both longevity and even +healing(small, but its there).

Some math:

Say you had 10k mana.

6% of 10000 is: 600.

600 x4(ticks) is 2400 mana.

Raid buffed and flasked with distilled wisdom my pool sits at about 14.4k mana and my return on each mana tide (and you average 2-3 tides per fight) comes out to about 3500 mana. That is quite a difference.

When I go all out Max haste max heal Ill flask distilled wisdom and pot distilled wisdom and get huge gains on my initial pool and the return from mana tide and it will keep me at a nice balanced level.
Also note: Group yourself with a shadow priest in your haste gear. This makes life simple.

For a final note.

Your pool isnt always everything but 9 times out of ten you'll wish and find it was.

The point of mana tide is to regen mana based on the size of the pool nwhen at a loss

The point of mp5 is to Regen your initial mana back to its start value.

When your pulling 3 stats instead of one, youll find yourself a much more useful and longer lasting shaman.

With the newer easier gears to get, like the badge gears, any resto shaman's target numbers for + heal should be anywhere around 2k.

If you already are in that range, +heal/mp5 gems are not nescessary, do yourself a favor and use 4int/2mp5 gems to boost some of your other class benefits. Not to mention from int you pull a small amount of + heal. Its important to pull as many beneficial stats as possible.

keep in mind even the best and most progressed shamans in the game hit a peak of around 2500 + heal. your not that far off.

Meeting a middle ground between your regen and haste values is not a bad idea, you could be running around with say 200 haste and 240mp5 and use that a general setup.

But hey, if you want to crush everything, suck it up, put a shadow priest in your group(he'll like it anyway with the extra dmg)and call for a random innervate, more and more resto druids hardly ever use them on themselves.

 

Daidalos

Well I've done the math before, but you actually get about 2x the mana saving per itemization point by using +healing and down ranking instead of picking up mp5. Some regen is good for mana burns or fights with alot of movement and burst healing but as I and many many other people have said +heal is almost always better than mp5.

Elemental Shaman calculations: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWuwb3e2IkuZKw

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg

 

lrdx

I don't really think this is true, you can never have enough +heal. If you hit the roof, and all your heals start overhealing, just downrank. You can spare more mana by stacking +heal (or haste or crit), than stacking INT or MP5.

My spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?...gD7CnjHWGWBbNg - use file -> copy table to fill your values) is a bit different than the big theorycrafters' here, but it says about the same: +1 heal is worth ~0.4 MP5, while 1 heal is 0.455 item point, and 1 MP5 is 2.5 item points.

 

Daidalos

Int is basically .3 (or .33 with kings) healing and some amount of mp5 depending on the length of the fight as we have shown before. Int will never be better than +heal.

Elemental Shaman calculations: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWuwb3e2IkuZKw

Restoration Shaman calculations:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...IWv3sPmcYnEJUg