[Mage] Rolling Ignites: are they back? - Page 2

[DRF]Solmyr · 01/09/08, 2:28 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Just to clarify; you do not want your fireballs to cast much faster than 2s -- if my theory holds then you might end up having to wait (ie: no dps), or adjust your travel time by being further to the boss.

I put on my regular equipment and was casting at 1.9... I didn't see the same effect.

Xei · 01/09/08, 2:31 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Clearly, the solution is reach 100% crit rate and spam rank 3 fireballs since post-TBC ignite are uncapped

Just to clarify; you do not want your fireballs to cast much faster than 2s -- if my theory holds then you might end up having to wait (ie: no dps), or adjust your travel time by being further to the boss.

What kind of window are we looking at here ... taking the example I suggested for a Troll.

So what us Trolls want to do when BL is popped in execute range:

1) IV for 20s.

2) Berserk at less then 90% hp for 10s, or Berserk+Drums at full hp.

3) Drums+Skull for the rest of bloodlust.

1) is 1.92s Fireballs for 20s.

2) is pretty much exactly 2s fireball (~1.99)

3) is the same (~1.98s)

Assuming no passive haste.

Etherealz · 01/09/08, 2:42 AM

1/9 02:20:31.093  Your Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 93 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:33.077  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 139 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:33.858  Dr. Boom is afflicted by Ignite.
1/9 02:20:35.186  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 147 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:37.171  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 143 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:37.171  Dr. Boom suffers 57 Fire damage from your Ignite.
1/9 02:20:39.186  Your Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 94 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:39.499  Dr. Boom suffers 86 Fire damage from your Ignite.
1/9 02:20:41.155  Your Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 94 Fire damage.
1/9 02:20:41.514  Dr. Boom suffers 86 Fire damage from your Ignite

Three crits = 429 crit dmg
Expected ignite = 171.6
Actual ignite 229
229/171.6 ~= 4/3 ~= 1.33

Solmyr got

413/330.8 =~ 1.25 for a 2 crit streak compared with 1.33 for a 3 crit streak on mine and a 62% increase on searix's screenshot of 4 crits.

The question is - Anybody up for killing lotheb with low rank fireballs?

manly · 01/09/08, 2:53 AM

Originally Posted by Xei

What kind of window are we looking at here

Again, if my theory holds, then the golden rule is this: 'as long as your ignite ticks while your fireball (that will crit) is in mid-air, you get a rolling ignite'. You can do it with shorter (edit: longer) cast times. However, for that you need to increase the travel time of your fireball, which means standing further from the target. It's doable with sub 2s fireballs, but you might not want to exceed a certain currently unknown threshold.

If anyone knows how to figure out fireball travel speed I'm all ears.

PSGarak · 01/09/08, 2:54 AM

Originally Posted by Xei

Also assuming berskering scales linearlly between 100% and 40%hps (confirm/deny?)

For at least one part of its history, Berserking was a tiered 10/20/30% increase , locked in by your health at the time of activation. I am unsure if this mechanic is still in place but I have not heard of it being changed.

BrTarolg · 01/09/08, 3:14 AM

Hey guys - i think some of you have missed a trick here. Suddenly popped to me after manly told me last night and when i went to bed.

When you chain cast fireball, you can start casting the next one *as soon as the first one has left your hand*
This means that you have extra leeway because it takes extra "cast time" for the fireball to travel there in the first place

If we have a silly, theoretical idea, that you have enough haste to get a 2.95 cast fireball, and it takes *exactly* one second for the fireball to arrive at the mob - every single one of your fireballs will roll
Picture this -

0.00 Fireball is cast
3.00 Fireball leaves hand
3.00 Next fireball is chaincasted
4.00 First fireball lands and crits
6.00 Second fireball is calculated and leaves hand (split second before ignite tick)
6.00 Third fireball is chaincasted
6.00 First ignite tick
7.00 Second fireball crits, refreshes ignite stack without losing anything

etc.etc. Please tell me if i've missed something. Ok - due to it being early in the morning and napkin maths, i've just left this in full "1-2-3" timings. But if it takes exactly 1 second worth of travel time for the fireball to get there, and you have say, a 2.95 second cast, *all* of your fireballs are capable of rolling ignite.

Ofc - we have to work out how long it takes for a fireball to travel to the target, but it certainly gives a lot less haste required than is mentioned above.

Searix · 01/09/08, 3:26 AM

Except that's not how this is working, the bonus ignite damage is only happening if you crit right as the ignite ticks, which is every 2 seconds.

Zeratu · 01/09/08, 3:30 AM

Originally Posted by manly

Again, if my theory holds, then the golden rule is this: 'as long as your ignite ticks while your fireball (that will crit) is in mid-air, you get a rolling ignite'. You can do it with shorter cast times. However, for that you need to increase the travel time of your fireball, which means standing further from the target. It's doable with sub 2s fireballs, but you might not want to exceed a certain currently unknown threshold.

If anyone knows how to figure out fireball travel speed I'm all ears.

I think that FB has the aproximated speed of the epic flying mount. (some time ago i shooted a fireball towards an enemy that was flying and couldnt catch him but couldnt escape from it hehe...)

Hate Monkey · 01/09/08, 3:41 AM

Originally Posted by manly

You can do it with shorter cast times. However, for that you need to increase the travel time of your fireball, which means standing further from the target. It's doable with sub 2s fireballs, but you might not want to exceed a certain currently unknown threshold.

If anyone knows how to figure out fireball travel speed I'm all ears.

The travel time is a fixed speed, so distance between you and the target wont matter, because as you cast faster, your fireballs will still hit in the same interval whether your 1 foot from the target or 41 yards.

Dexestore · 01/09/08, 3:42 AM

All bolts seem to have problems catching up with epix flying mount (280%) + 10% from trinket. Was shot at with a fireball while mounted and tried "outflying" it. The bolt kept up with the mount speed till i stopped and got hit (2minutes after it was shot). Not sure if trinket is needed tho.

Can do some tests using 41 yard range, a target, and someone to try and fly to that target the second the fireball is launched. Would that be a viable way of confirming?

Vulkaire · 01/09/08, 4:04 AM

Couldn't you test this with lower rank fireballs on Dr. Boom? Rank 3 is exactly 2 seconds talented.

Pintofbrew · 01/09/08, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Hate Monkey

The travel time is a fixed speed, so distance between you and the target wont matter, because as you cast faster, your fireballs will still hit in the same interval whether your 1 foot from the target or 41 yards.

I got quite confused with "Travel time is a fixed speed". For a moment I thought you meant projectiles will take a specific length of time to reach a target irrespective of distance.

Just to clarify what I think you actualey mean is: Since distance between caster and target won't change, travel time will remain constant.

Your argument is almost correct because ignite's timer is dependent on when the spell hits the mob and as such distance -is- important.

Take the following assumption: Say the target is 4sec fireball travel-time away. Irrespective of haste, by the time the second ball hits the last ball's ignite will be over already.

greyberger · 01/09/08, 6:36 AM

A resource we have, if its at all helpful to test with fireballs at this speed, is the caster mobs in ZA that buff themselves with haste. You'd have the choice of casting fireballs at a rate under the gcd, or pyroblasts under 2.0 sec, probably without needing bloodlust or icy veins.

Of course it would require a guild patient enough to wait around for the tank to generate enough aggro for your chain-pyro tests.

Pintofbrew · 01/09/08, 6:58 AM

Smacks a tad too complex. The adds are rather too enthusiastic and if memory serves they randomly charge about.

If you do manage to get such a setup running I wouldn't worry about the agro however: Just use rank 1 Pyro.

Vhad · 01/09/08, 7:00 AM

I hope this picture is visible.

I also tested it with 2,01 second cast, havn't uploaded that picture but it did not stack at that point.

Edit: I think the fact that scorch crit less than 1,5 second after fireball crit also produced the ignite stacking, that the threshold is just 2,0 seconds, anything faster than that will roll it.

Edit2: Another observation is that crits more than 2 seconds apart seems to delay the ignite tick, so that it
'stacks' like we've been used to, it's only under the 2 second interval that it seems to roll ala pre TBC.