[Mage] Rolling Ignites: are they back? - Page 7

Hate Monkey · 01/18/08, 6:09 AM

Shari - WWS

My rage this week, 28 critical hits at an average of 6453 damage.
Total of 180684 Crit Damage, 40% for ignite damage is 72273.6,
Actual ignite damage done, 83795, 46% ignite damage.

23 normal hits at an average of 3941, for a total of 90643
58 fireball dots at 30 average, for a total of 1710 damage.
Combined, 273037, vs the 273130 listed on WWS, off by 100.

Didn't bother to look through the log for all the ignite data to find where the rolling ignite happened, but its there!

Searix · 01/18/08, 7:14 AM

Originally Posted by Hate Monkey

Shari - WWS

My rage this week, 28 critical hits at an average of 6453 damage.
Total of 180684 Crit Damage, 40% for ignite damage is 72273.6,
Actual ignite damage done, 83795, 46% ignite damage.

23 normal hits at an average of 3941, for a total of 90643
58 fireball dots at 30 average, for a total of 1710 damage.
Combined, 273037, vs the 273130 listed on WWS, off by 100.

Didn't bother to look through the log for all the ignite data to find where the rolling ignite happened, but its there!

It's usually safe to add on a 1% or so buffer because most fights you end it with an ignite still ticking, so 47-48% ignite damage

manly · 01/18/08, 12:50 PM

I do believe we need a tool to track ignites, mostly to have a better idea of how often we get free damage and how often we lose ignite damage from dead mobs. Checking WWS, multiplying the #fire crits by their crit average and comparing the result with total ignite damage can be somewhat misleading, in the sense that ideally you want to clip-off the last few spells for purpose of TC-ing the best use of ignite. There are many cases where I could see myself intently consider not dpsing with firespells in order to make sure I get that last ignite tick in if the tick is big enough (that is, for the last 4-5 seconds of the fight). The TC is quite unexplored so far in that domain.

Mojache · 01/19/08, 5:40 AM

I slotted my haste items to give me exactly 1.99 haste on DR. Boom, and even after the first test it was obvious that theres extra damage coming in from hitting that mark. 2.20 haste with just icey veins did not cause any extra ignite damage, it was exactly 40% but dropping down to exactly 1.99 is interesting because you easily notice the extra 10-15% from an extra tick thrown in the mix there.

The only problem is, on most short fights it just seems like it would be better to wait till close to sub 20~ to start using cooldowns but then you might run into problems of wasted DPS.

My guess as to why this is happening has to do simply with the way damage must be calculated with fireball. We all know that if you had 10x combustion and you fireball then fireblasted, they would both crit. This makes me believe that because fireball has some sort of calculation as it's casted and before it hits that maybe the ignite damage is being modified because of that.

Also, specing 0/40/21 could give you 40 seconds of icey veins to match your bloodlust. And if you were to say stack for crit gems you could potenially see some insanely high numbers.

Ginkgo · 01/19/08, 6:13 AM

I reproduced the rolling ignite with Rank 4 Fireball cast time 2.38 chain casting from 20~ yards on PTR

Relevant lines from combat chat in order (minus fireball dot and hits)

Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 796 Fire damage.
Dr. Boom is afflicted by Ignite.
Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 758 Fire damage.
Dr. Boom suffers 159 Fire damage from your Ignite
Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 750 Fire damage.
Dr. Boom suffers 311 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Dr. Boom suffers 306 Fire damage from your Ignite.
Dr. Boom suffers 305 Fire damage from your Ignite.

796 gives 159x2
758 gives 152x2
750 gives 150x2

The first tick of 159 was free, followed by 152+159, but there was no 2nd free tick and proceeded normally with 150+(152+159)/2, 150+(152+159)/2 even though they were chain casted..

Has anyone produced 2 free ticks from 3 crits like x-2x-3x-3x? Seems somewhat arbitrary

BrTarolg · 01/19/08, 6:18 AM

Note: whilst theory states that really you need a 2+ second cast fireball with a reliable travel time to get rolling ignites - these next few factors means you can actually do it with sub 2 second fireballs, and very hard to do with anything over 2.5 seconds

Firstly, theres the "imperfect casting" - you really need to be using that g20 or g50 or whatever g1337 thing that you guys talk about to make sure you get the fireball off asap. And even then, theres probably a 100~ ms or more gap between you and the server receiving the cast

Second, somewhere on the line is just random noise and lag, probably accounting for another few 100's of MS, at least in variation

Third, theres lag between the fireball hitting, and ignite actually coming up. This could possibly be the server looking for confirmation from the client that the fireball has hit (to synch with the server, which already knows from the beginning of cast that ignite is going to proc)

Lastly, it could be that the server actually looks for confirmation from the client when the bolt actually hits, and just lets the client do all the work. This could explain such bugs/hacks involving infinite range bolts and the like. (Only from your own point of view towards a monster, this may be different for PVP)

This is because, given a zero lag situation- 1 sec travel time, and 2 s cast
0s cast fireball
2s fireball casts, chain next
3s fireball lands, ignite procs
4s next fireball casts, chain next
5s ignite "ticks" and the next fireball lands straight after, free ignite

Interestingly - this same situation works from anywhere from 2s to a 3s cast, due to 1 second of travel time. If there are two seconds, it works anywhere from 2-4 seconds of fireball cast.

Given that it *cannot* be sub 2 seconds, I conclude that what is actually happening is the "optimal zero lag time" is most likely around 2.5 seconds, given a 0.75s ish travel time (danger - I pulled these two numbers out my ass), and yet we are casting sub 2 s fireballs, adding up all the lags at the top (such as ignite proccing a significant time after the fireball hits, lag, etc.), which allows us to proc rolling ignites with sub 2 second fireballs.

Strange to say the least.

Hate Monkey · 01/20/08, 12:15 AM

Actually you don't need to have a 2s+ cast time on fireballs to get a rolling ignite, just need it to happen on one cast during the ignite ticks to produce the extra damage.

Hmm, let me phrase this a little differently:
Since the Ignite dot is applied about a second later after the initial fireball crit, a 1.5s Fireball will produce a rolling ignite under these conditions too.

0s Fireball Crit 5000
1s Ignite dot appears
1.55s Fireball hit for 3300
3s Ignite tick happens 1000
3.1s Fireball crit for 5000
3.05s Ignite timer reset
4.6s Fireball Crit for 5000
5.05s Potential Ignite tick for 3000
6.15s (this is where the problem occurs with rolling ignites) Fireball Crit for 5000
7.05s Potential Ignite tick for 3000, or 6000 unsure which should happen.

Expected ignite is 6000 damage, actual occurring ignite is 7000 damage, potential of 10,000 damage.

Enquillion · 01/21/08, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Hate Monkey

4.6s Fireball Crit for 5000

Ignite timer would reset again after this, without first ticking. 1.5 sec Fireballs are just Scorches with a flight time - oh, and probably unachievable.

Theegirly · 01/21/08, 3:15 PM

Rolling ignites are cool! This was at the start of the fight...

02:40'20.006 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 208 Fire damage
02:40'20.943 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'21.084 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5692 Fire damage
02:40'22.006 theegirly gains Combustion
02:40'22.006 theegirly gains 128 Mana from Master of Elements
02:40'22.693 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'23.115 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 30 Fire damage
02:40'23.303 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5565 Fire damage
02:40'23.662 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 1242 Fire damage
02:40'24.459 theegirly gains 127 Mana from Master of Elements
02:40'24.678 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'25.272 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 30 Fire damage
02:40'25.818 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5849 Fire damage
02:40'26.084 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 1734 Fire damage
02:40'26.756 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'26.865 theegirly gains 128 Mana from Master of Elements
02:40'27.850 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 30 Fire damage
02:40'28.443 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5778 Fire damage
02:40'28.522 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 2037 Fire damage
02:40'28.678 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'29.318 theegirly gains 127 Mana from Master of Elements
02:40'30.475 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 30 Fire damage
02:40'30.725 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'30.865 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 3192 Fire damage
02:40'30.928 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5731 Fire damage
02:40'32.053 theegirly gains 128 Mana from Master of Elements
02:40'32.756 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'32.975 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 32 Fire damage
02:40'33.428 theegirly's Fireball hits Lady Vashj for 3881 Fire damage
02:40'33.693 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 2743 Fire damage
02:40'34.740 theegirly gains 20 Mana from Mana Spring of Mana Spring Totem V
02:40'35.381 theegirly's Fireball dots Lady Vashj for 31 Fire damage
02:40'35.693 theegirly's Ignite dots Lady Vashj for 2743 Fire damage
02:40'35.897 theegirly's Fireball crits Lady Vashj for 5894 Fire damage

Mnoma · 01/22/08, 10:20 AM

I've been testing this Rolling Ignite thing for some time now. A non-standard build that works very well for this is:

WorldofWarcraft.com -> Info -> Classes -> Mage -> Talent Calculator

The trick to this one is to cast Fireballs until you get one that crits, then spam Scorches to keep the Ignite going, if one of the Scorches doesn't crit, you just cast a Fireblast and hope for a crit on that, if it crits, you keep on scorching, if not, start over with fireballs until you get another one that crits.

In a group with an Oomkin and a Totem of Wrath and the right gear, you can get your crit up over 55% (if you figure in arcane potency). I've tested this and in some situations (especially on bosses, where the Totem of Wrath is amazingly helpful) you can get rolling ignites from this spell rotation above and beyond 5k, (5k every two seconds in addition to your scorch crits).

I'm sure you can vary your build (maybe take some from Fire Power and put it in Elemental Precision for bosses), but, the crit talents are the ones that you want to keep, because Spell Power and Ignite are going to be your bread and butter.

I've beaten many of our Deep Fire mages (good Deep Fire mages, at that) with this. It takes a bit more concentration, but it really can pay off in the end if you get good at it).

I'm currently Deep Fire, and I'm finding the Dragon's Breath and Blast Wave are good for PVP as well, but I really loved that Arcane Fire build with very high rolling ignites. Test it, see if you like it, what's 50g?

kycan · 01/22/08, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Mnoma

stuff

I'm going to go out of my way to be a troll and say you completely missed the point of the thread.

manly · 01/22/08, 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Mnoma

stuff

You completely missed the entire thread. Sorry.

Nurru · 01/22/08, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Mnoma

The trick to this one is to cast Fireballs until you get one that crits, then spam Scorches to keep the Ignite going, if one of the Scorches doesn't crit, you just cast a Fireblast and hope for a crit on that, if it crits, you keep on scorching, if not, start over with fireballs until you get another one that crits.

There is no encounter, place or situation where this is good advice.

Yenadar · 01/23/08, 3:34 PM

As a main pally with an epic flier, as well as an original main mage, I think I may be able to contribute a bit to the speed discussion.

I have deliberately 'kited' spell-bolt effects on my fliers, as I had found the effect amusing as well as interesting. If someone can let me know how to capture data that will reflect this information, I am willing to assist with this.

However, my observations are as follows:
Tested with:

Epic Flier with no additional speed increases
Epic Flier with +15% talent
Epic Flier with Crusader Aura (over-writes +15% talent)
(I don't want to quote the speed% values, because I am unsure as to their exact values)

Tested Against:

Darkcaster? Shadowbolts in Twilight Ridge, Nagrand
Imp Firebolts in Twilight Ridge, Nagrand
Mob Water Elemental frost bolts from....(Nagrand?)
Fel Cannon blasts from Hellfire
Booterang boots from Netherwing Ledge, Shadowmoon

Observations:

In order for the spell caster to complete casting, I MUST remain within casting range until the spell is completed
Leaving cast range before the completion of the spell canceled the spell and dropped me from combat
Damage NEVER occurred immediately upon spell cast
Once the spell cast completed, I NEVER avoided the damage.
Damage (or resist) would occur around .5 to 1.5 seconds after spell cast, regardless of where the visual effect was.
Without Crusader Aura and without the Talent, I would always get hit by the visual effect ~ 10 seconds after spell cast
Without Crusader Aura and with the Talent, I could maintain a distance from the visual effect as long as I flew in a straight line. I could not tell if I was minutely increasing or decreasing distance. I would inevitably get hit by the visual when I had to make a path adjustment.
With Crusader Aura, I would noticeably increase distance from the visual effect. No amount of distance would remove the visual effect.
I never tested how Zoning into instances affected the visual
I never tested how taking a port back to Kalimdor or Easter Kingdoms affected the visual.
The visual effect always traveled directly at me, regardless of if there was any interfering objects or terrain.
All spell cast visual effects traveled at the same speed, and have 'collected' up to 10 visual bolts at once to confirm this
Booterang Boots appear to travel much slower, as I can outrange them easily without any speed increases.

This does appear to lend credence to the theory that the damage/resist occurs at the time that the game detects the visual SHOULD have gotten to it's target, assuming a constant distance. Decreasing distance would result in the visual landing before the damage/resist, increasing distance would result in the visual landing after the damage/resist.

The better question might then be: "How long after spell cast does the system think the visual will land?"

...and testing the visual itself might be to no point. The log-timer checking would be the best method, as it removes changes in movement speed due to equipment, talents, server lag, and machine lag. Even if there are modifiers, running the checks all through the same log should normalize the lag factors and keep them from impacting the results.

Hope I have been of some help.

Vannik · 01/23/08, 5:57 PM

Has anyone done any preliminairy math of calculating how much DPS could be gained in relation to the gear changes required and the % of time this can be reliably done? I understand that the mechanics are still up in the air, but generally you can take an assumed crit rate, add the bonus ignite, and compare it not stacking 200+ haste gear. I also understand that trinket/iv ect can drop it down without sacrificing too much other gear for haste. I'd assume there will be a balance of sorts to this though. Popping trinkets and bad luck could result in no benefit whatsoever, or. alternately, could result in a giant chain.

Hate Monkey · 01/26/08, 6:06 PM

Just as a concern for this topic, going through my parses for this week, a few other mage parses, and Manly's parse, I've noticed a sever lack of rolling ignites since 2.3.3 launched on Tuesday. Could anyone else check their parses to see of they got any rolling Ignites happening, or go back to Dr. Boom and test a bit?

Might be my paranoia since the patch, but seems kind of odd going from 3 fights a week before with 2.3.3 to 0 fights the week of 2.3.3.

Koosha · 01/26/08, 6:36 PM

This is from Tuesday.

Koosha - WWS

12400 damage ignite, I'm gonna have to say they are still rolling :P

Koosha - WWS

6900 here too. They def are still rolling.

Etherealz · 01/26/08, 7:03 PM

Originally Posted by Koosha

This is from Tuesday.

Koosha - WWS

12400 damage ignite, I'm gonna have to say they are still rolling :P

Koosha - WWS

6900 here too. They def are still rolling.

Actually in your first wws you did not experience rolling ignites and had sub 2s fireballs just pushing them back.

03:43'12.468	Koosha's Fireball hits Kaz'rogal for 5439 Fire damage
03:43'14.078	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8848 Fire damage
03:43'15.734	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8675 Fire damage
03:43'17.468	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8775 Fire damage
03:43'19.000	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8866 Fire damage
03:43'20.656	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8743 Fire damage
03:43'22.375	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 8851 Fire damage
03:43'24.000	Koosha's Fireball crits Kaz'rogal for 9052 Fire damage
03:43'24.890	Koosha's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Vilthe for 2640 Shadow damage (7688 resisted)
03:43'24.906	Koosha's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Masterdragon for 2644 Shadow damage (7933 resisted)
03:43'24.906	Koosha's Mark of Kaz'rogal hits Koosha for 5429 Shadow damage (5270 resisted)
03:43'25.968	Koosha's Fireball dots Kaz'rogal for 38 Fire damage
03:43'26.500	Koosha's Ignite dots Kaz'rogal for 12362 Fire damage
03:43'27.984	Koosha's Fireball dots Kaz'rogal for 37 Fire damage
03:43'28.125	Koosha's Scorch hits Kaz'rogal for 1603 Fire damage (402 resisted)
03:43'28.531	Koosha's Ignite dots Kaz'rogal for 12362 Fire damage

Crit damage = 61810
Ignite expected = 24724
Actual ignite = 12362*2 = 24724

On your second WWS

04:55'56.296	Koosha's Fireball hits High Warlord Naj'entus for 5542 Fire damage
04:55'58.109	Koosha's Fireball hits High Warlord Naj'entus for 5538 Fire damage
04:55'59.671	Koosha's Fireball crits High Warlord Naj'entus for 8542 Fire damage
04:56'01.218	Koosha's Fireball crits High Warlord Naj'entus for 8787 Fire damage
04:56'02.890	Koosha's Fireball crits High Warlord Naj'entus for 8466 Fire damage
04:56'04.468	Koosha's Fireball crits High Warlord Naj'entus for 8536 Fire damage
04:56'05.328	High Warlord Naj'entus's Needle Spine hits Koosha for 2658
04:56'06.140	Koosha's Fireball hits High Warlord Naj'entus for 5435 Fire damage
04:56'07.265	Koosha's Ignite dots High Warlord Naj'entus for 6866 Fire damage
04:56'19.703	High Warlord Naj'entus's Tidal Burst hits Koosha for 8755 Frost damage

Crit damage = 34331
Expected ignite = 13732
Actual ignite = 6866 *2 (second one absorbed by shield obviously) = 13732

As you can see you are simply pushing your ignites back with sub 2s crits

Originally Posted by Hate Monkey

Just as a concern for this topic, going through my parses for this week, a few other mage parses, and Manly's parse, I've noticed a sever lack of rolling ignites since 2.3.3 launched on Tuesday. Could anyone else check their parses to see of they got any rolling Ignites happening, or go back to Dr. Boom and test a bit?

Might be my paranoia since the patch, but seems kind of odd going from 3 fights a week before with 2.3.3 to 0 fights the week of 2.3.3.

Wanted to confirm that they didn't fix rolling ignites with a small Dr.Boom test.

1/26 18:19:32.764  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 665 Fire damage.
1/26 18:19:33.421  Dr. Boom is afflicted by Ignite.
1/26 18:19:33.421  You gain 19 Mana from Master of Elements.
1/26 18:19:34.639  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:34.749  Dr. Boom suffers 2 Fire damage from your Fireball.
1/26 18:19:34.811  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 658 Fire damage.
1/26 18:19:35.186  Dr. Boom suffers 133 Fire damage from your Ignite. <=Free ignite
1/26 18:19:35.593  You gain 20 Mana from Master of Elements.
1/26 18:19:35.843  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:36.827  Dr. Boom suffers 2 Fire damage from your Fireball.
1/26 18:19:36.905  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 670 Fire damage. <== ignite pushback
1/26 18:19:37.452  You gain 19 Mana from Master of Elements.
1/26 18:19:38.639  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:38.889  Dr. Boom suffers 3 Fire damage from your Fireball.
1/26 18:19:38.936  Your Fireball crits Dr. Boom for 670 Fire damage.
1/26 18:19:39.124  Dr. Boom suffers 398 Fire damage from your Ignite. <== free ignite
1/26 18:19:39.452  You gain 20 Mana from Master of Elements.
1/26 18:19:40.639  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:40.936  Dr. Boom suffers 3 Fire damage from your Fireball.
1/26 18:19:40.999  Your Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 415 Fire damage.
1/26 18:19:41.046  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:41.468  Dr. Boom suffers 533 Fire damage from your Ignite.
1/26 18:19:41.811  Boom Bot is killed by Suicide.
1/26 18:19:41.827  Boom Bot is killed by Suicide.
1/26 18:19:41.827  Band of the Eternal Sage fades from you.
1/26 18:19:41.827  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:41.827  Boom Bot dies.
1/26 18:19:42.968  Dr. Boom suffers 2 Fire damage from your Fireball.
1/26 18:19:43.155  Your Fireball hits Dr. Boom for 391 Fire damage.
1/26 18:19:43.468  Dr. Boom suffers 533 Fire damage from your Ignite.
1/26 18:19:43.889  Ignite fades from Dr. Boom.

Crit damage 2663
Expected ignite = 1065.2
Actual ignite = 533* 2 = 1066 + 398 free + 133 free = 1597

Koosha · 01/26/08, 7:14 PM

Well I feel a bit dumber D:

Hate Monkey · 01/26/08, 8:15 PM

You first WWS linked does not have any rolling ignites, but the second one lost 10k ignite damage.
21 crits @ 6884 average damage for a total of 144564 damage, expected 57826 ignite damage, observed ignite damage 47257. not including scorch ignite damage.

Your Anetheron fight on the other hand:
14 Fireball crits @ 6962 average damage, total of 97468 damage, expected 38987 ignite damage.
6 Scorch crits @ 2067 average damage, total of 12402 damage, expected 4961 ignite damage.
Total of 43948 Ignite damage, observed 46797, 2800 more damage, 42.5% ignite damage.

Not over whelming evidence for showing Rolling Ignites still exist, could also be an error in my math too.

Searix · 01/29/08, 11:06 PM

Wish i had the data, but had obvious large rolling ignites in naxx last friday on patchwerk. I'll try to get details but i'm sure nothing's changed.

On a side note, has anyone done any math on what's the best cooldowns to pop sub 20% assuming you can get heroism? Unfortunately popping them all puts them at ~1.55 seconds, which means no rolling ignite, but not popping cooldowns during them might be a bigger dps loss.

Aeoliana · 07/16/08, 3:14 PM

From reading through the posts theres one thing I think that hasnt been considered, does ignite take into account the DoT effect of fireball? If thats so it could account for the nominal increases in ignite damage some people seem to see as conclusive evidence of rolling ignites.

Also from looking through the logs and examples posted it would seem that a 2 second cast would be the desired cast time assuming a 1 second flight time. Latency and client side lag should allow for the 'free' ignite tick before re-applying the debuff.

It also seems plausible that if your cast time is longer than 2 seconds you could compensate by reducing flight time, or for shorter cast times, increasing it. Taking fireball and making it take 3 seconds from initial button press to landing on the boss seems to be what triggers the rolling ignites.

Etherealz · 07/17/08, 9:43 AM

Originally Posted by Aeoliana

From reading through the posts theres one thing I think that hasnt been considered, does ignite take into account the DoT effect of fireball? If thats so it could account for the nominal increases in ignite damage some people seem to see as conclusive evidence of rolling ignites.

Also from looking through the logs and examples posted it would seem that a 2 second cast would be the desired cast time assuming a 1 second flight time. Latency and client side lag should allow for the 'free' ignite tick before re-applying the debuff.

It also seems plausible that if your cast time is longer than 2 seconds you could compensate by reducing flight time, or for shorter cast times, increasing it. Taking fireball and making it take 3 seconds from initial button press to landing on the boss seems to be what triggers the rolling ignites.

The dot has no effect on the ignite, but for that matter you can clearly see the extra ignites on all the logs posted - it's not some sort of average gain, it's just an extra tick that shouldn't be there.

On cast times, at least from my testing the best stacking conditions occur between ~2.07-2.11s fireball casts.

Immortalfire · 07/17/08, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Searix

On a side note, has anyone done any math on what's the best cooldowns to pop sub 20% assuming you can get heroism? Unfortunately popping them all puts them at ~1.55 seconds, which means no rolling ignite, but not popping cooldowns during them might be a bigger dps loss.

I'm having the same exact problem, with IV and Skull i can already reach 2 second FB, using drums pushes me over to 1.9, and having BL/Heroism without any cooldowns has me at 2 second. would it be more beneficial to use skull/iv right heroism ends and pair up heroism with hex/icon or would it be more damage to use IV/Skull/drums together with Heroism.

Etherealz · 07/17/08, 3:57 PM

Originally Posted by Immortalfire

I'm having the same exact problem, with IV and Skull i can already reach 2 second FB, using drums pushes me over to 1.9, and having BL/Heroism without any cooldowns has me at 2 second. would it be more beneficial to use skull/iv right heroism ends and pair up heroism with hex/icon or would it be more damage to use IV/Skull/drums together with Heroism.

The most important cooldown to time around your ~2.09s fireball periods is combustion. Beyond that it's hard to say, but if using your skull in conjunction results in more periods like this then perhaps that is good. Personally veins + drums gives me a fast enough cast, so I pop destro + combustion + hex at this time. Ultimately It would be ideal to always(passively) have a the correct cast time for fireball, though that requires perfect gear.