[Melee] Teron Gorefiend DPS - Page 2

Xav · 01/11/08, 8:54 PM

I'm not sure people do it completely on purpose, for example, I know the guy currently doing the uploading for Premo's WWS just installed it because the old person left. He pushes one button at the start, and one at the end, or whatever, then posts it. I could ask him to not count it, however, since a lot of the guild that are counting it as a pet are also doing rather great DPS aside from that anyway, it's still decent to compare sometimes. (Although how would he/we go about not counting it as a pet? I don't know much at all about how WWS works on the client)

Of course it would be nice if, due to Teron Gorefiend currently being the only mildly competitive/entertaining thing in raiding right now from week to week, that all WWS parses on the site were forced into the same guidelines for reporting of events.

constantius · 01/11/08, 8:59 PM

It's pretty easy to fix, even for a neophyte. There's a tab which allows you to parse the log and select all the "actors" and define what they are. You can set which pet belongs to which hunter (not always auto-detected), you can tell the client which names are actually PCs and which are mobs, and you can assign certain totems to certain shamans, if you know for a fact which one belongs to which.

One of the names is Vengeful Spirit, and you can easily set that to Mob instead of Pet. Unassigned pets just get added into RDPS without showing up in any easily found way.

Whiteknight · 01/11/08, 8:59 PM

You change the mob type in the actor's panel from 'Mob' to 'Pet' or vice versa. It remembers this setting across sessions.

I think calling it dishonest is not correct. I can make a solid argument either way. The fact that folk with a track record of rational decision making and a history of clean parses made the decision differently indicates that it's not clear cut.

In fact the spirit really *is* a pet. The player controls it and if they don't take any action, you get no dps from it.

oh, and Xav - I've asked Lossendil on his forum to discard parses for which the damage done to the boss deviated significantly from the norm. I.e. double logging bugs and other kinds of truncated parses indicating a broken parse. The response I got was they're working on it. Obviously it's not entirely an easy thing to figure out given bosses like Anetheron which can heal.

Myul · 01/11/08, 9:03 PM

Rensy
Drums of Battle x4

Crookgrin
Drums of Battle x4

Statch
Drums of Battle x0

His WF Proccrate was low, did you see that on logs before? Rensy got 23 WF Proccs (4:36'30 till 4:39'27 ~ 3.0 minutes), Crookgrin 27 WF Proccs (5:03'12 till 5:06'10 ~ 3.0 minutes) and Statch only 23 WF Proccs (6:11'26 till 6:15'09 ~ 3.75 minutes) during the fight.

constantius · 01/11/08, 9:48 PM

Drums do not effect white *damage*, they effect total *number* of white hits. I'm fine with the dps differential, what I wanted to know was why the *hits* were so different. Xav did a great job of figuring it out.

The difference in % of WF attacks will be part of the difference, you're right, since every WF attack is +AP, which means it should hit harder. The enh shaman may have died on the parse I linked, I'm not sure. I'll look into that.

Valen · 01/11/08, 10:42 PM

Blade of Infamy has a weapon range of 182 - 339. Good roll of dice can mean that people can get a fight with a string of high end crits. The cross proc's of mongoose/executioner/MotB or WSC can also increase your average hit by quite a bit.

Do you have access to Improved hunter mark or Expose Weakness in your raids?
Scroll of Agility V is also a buff that some rogues use alot. Or some rogues use +hit rating food/agility potions while some others use flask/AP food (125 AP difference right there).

Anyways, Teron is a short fight so luck can play a big role in overall raid dps.

manly · 01/11/08, 11:33 PM

I haven't seen this mentioned, i assume this would be standard fare for teron, although somewhat cheesing up the numbers.
[Recipe: Elixir of Demonslaying]

Valen · 01/11/08, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by manly

I haven't seen this mentioned, i assume this would be standard fare for teron, although somewhat cheesing up the numbers.
[Recipe: Elixir of Demonslaying]

Teron is an undead, not demon.

Latito · 01/12/08, 3:10 AM

Those ARE however handy for Hyjal (and Supremus if you really care).

constantius - Looking at MAX hit generally won't get you very far. With several proc'able buffs going around, getting a lucky max roll on the weapon while several buffs are active can really create some drastically different numbers. Average and Min hit are generally better measures. That said, your rogue is scoring lower even on the min/average hits.

Basically it comes down to AP and Armor Pen when looking at average hits. Haste, Hit and Crit will help your DPS of course, but not your average attack.

Does your warrior use Solarian trinket?
Does your rogue use AP food or Hit food (hit food is more dps.. lower max hit)
Does your rogue have Illidan and ZA-timed rings? (armor pen)
Does your rogue generally have gear which favours AP instead of other stats?

I *could* gear to get max hits by stacking AP and ArmPen.. but that wouldn't help my overall dps. Take those "max hit" type numbers with a grain of salt.

• Aldriana · 01/12/08, 3:14 AM

The thing to keep in mind, though, is that the difference we're seeing is not a matter of 70 AP from Solarian's Sapphire. We're talking 70 damage on a 2.6 speed weapon, after armor reduction; this is easily a 500 AP difference. Hence, I think the percentage buffs explanation is more likely to be correct than the random 70 AP here and there.

Your point about not putting too much stock in average hit size is a good one, though; while hit size correlates with DPS, it's not as good a measurement of effectiveness on the whole.

Pitbuller · 01/12/08, 10:40 AM

Tank using [Gift of Arthas] gives mini hemo. Only guardian elixir what boost tank tps + raid dps what I know. Least around 100dps + additional tps to tank.

Golias · 01/12/08, 11:08 AM

Things that really boosted damage for us:

* 4 shamans so all groups get heroism/bloodlust

* A holy paladin giving us the retribution buffs. Check the spec.

* A survival hunter if you are melee heavy

* Drums of battle for everyone

* Warrior with imp. battleshout and Solarian's sapphire

Seems this "Vengeful trick" is very common for all top guilds. As far as I could see (please correct me if i'm wrong), EJ actually has the best clean report listed, at 28.958k. Doesn't mean that some of the top reports (that one is just #31 wouldn't be higher if the ghost was properly tagged, but I find it unlikely. I'd say that probably the 30k barrier wasn't yet beaten in regular circumstances (no world buffs) at all, which actually makes my own guild 25k record look much better.

This said, like it was pointed, given certain threshold of dps, It really becomes a cooldown based fight, which can't really be used as sustained dps benchmark. Hopefully Sunwell brings a new and better fight for this.

♦ Praetorian · 01/12/08, 11:17 AM

A good metric is actually fight duration, on bosses that don't heal or otherwise have mechanics that can prolong the fight beyond their hp pool.

2min 54sec elapsed between the first action on Teron and his death if you look at the log of our ~29k "clean" parse linked above.

To compare, the December 28 32.3k DPS parse by Juggernaut has an elapsed time between pull and death of exactly 3 minutes.

The January 10 34.6k DPS FSB parse has a duration of what looks like 2min 36sec, which is certainly impressive.

Mijae · 01/12/08, 3:56 PM

There's probably even more answers looking at buffs gained. Statch gained Unleashed Rage 3 times, which means it was not active all the time. Similarly, the shaman might not have been refreshing strength of earth totem also (or twisting GoA as mentioned already). He also had a longer fight and 100 more white hits, meaning there were more attacks landed without cooldowns/trinkets active. This would definitely lower the average (max hits can be quite random).

Dollar · 01/12/08, 4:33 PM

Can you have a warrior shout with the trinket on and then switch to a different trinket right before you pull?