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Old 02/08/08, 11:52 AM   #76
Dollar
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Korgath
If you use Icy Veins and Combustion at the same time then Combustion will go back on cooldown faster but I'm not sure if that outweighs holding out until it is up again to use it with Icy Veins. I don't think it would make any difference expect in a vacuum, anyways.

"Oh he's a sad little man? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?"

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Old 02/08/08, 12:02 PM   #77
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Waiting for icy veins to pop combustion just so that your combustion comes back up faster is quite counter-productive.

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Old 02/08/08, 5:57 PM   #78
Habanero
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
Waiting for icy veins to pop combustion just so that your combustion comes back up faster is quite counter-productive.
Nope. Using Combustion + Trinket + Icy Veins maximizes 1) your crit chance during the effects of Trinket +dmg 2) the number of Fireballs you get off during Trinket +dmg regardless of crit chance.

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Old 02/08/08, 8:33 PM   #79
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
If you have a trinket obviously you'll be waiting on combustion for the trinket and then on the trinket for icy veins, thus effectively delaying combustion. This doesn't mean that you should just delay combustion for icy veins every time. If I say A is a better thing to do in X situation, you saying B is better in Y situation doesn't really contradict is. Bottom line is there is no point waiting to pair icy veins with combustion for itself, although you may end up finding yourself doing it if you're trying to pair each of them with the trinket.

Also notice that not all cooldowns are worth waiting for. For example in a situation where the only cooldowns that are almost ready are trinket and icy veins, if they're close enough you should wait on the trinket for icy veins, but you should never wait on icy veins for the trinket no matter how little time you'll need to wait, at least according to some rough math I was doing.

Would be nice to get some general spreadsheet (or include in vontre's) what are the breakpoints for certain cooldow stackings to be worth it over seperate use. As obviously waiting 5 secs on the trinket to use icy veins is worth it, but waiting 1 minute is not. All assuming you're not sure how much time is left on the fight, of course, as if you know how much time is left you could base your decision on "will this result in 1 less use if I wait?" and if you answer yes, pop it now, and if the answer is no then wait.

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Old 02/08/08, 8:50 PM   #80
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Right now, there is very very few evidence that has been shown to truly display the effect of cooldown stacking versus not doing it. I have a very rough idea, but nothing worthy of TC.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 02/09/08, 11:13 AM   #81
Habanero
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Shaman
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by galzohar View Post
If you have a trinket obviously you'll be waiting on combustion for the trinket and then on the trinket for icy veins, thus effectively delaying combustion. This doesn't mean that you should just delay combustion for icy veins every time. If I say A is a better thing to do in X situation, you saying B is better in Y situation doesn't really contradict is. Bottom line is there is no point waiting to pair icy veins with combustion for itself, although you may end up finding yourself doing it if you're trying to pair each of them with the trinket.
I will absolutely agree with you here. For PvE sustained DPS there should be no significant difference between using Icy Veins and Combustion separately or together. For PvE or PvP burst DPS of course the matter changes, but PvE burst DPS is often unnecessary. When actual power increase cooldowns are used, whether they're trinkets or other gear-based procs or battlegrounds Berserk buffs or Power Infusion or Flame Caps or Destruction Potions (but not Bloodlust per se) is when you get a chance to significantly skew your average damage per hit by using Combustion and Icy Veins and Berserking.

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Old 02/09/08, 1:03 PM   #82
galzohar
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Besides, if you need burst dps on a certain period of time, you'll pop both combustion and icy veins at that time - but it's still not becuase they're worth stacking, it's because you just happened to want combustion during that time, as well as wanting icy veins during that time, but they have no effect on eachother (except gettting combustion to finish faster but that obviously doesn't affect any practical gameplay decisions).

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Old 02/25/08, 2:33 PM   #83
Asgardmage
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Blackhand
What about cooldown management for arcane/frost build like 40/0/21? I tend to think to do the following:

1. Warm up with Arcane Blast to proc the Blessing deck to +80 dmg,
2. Pop Arcane Power + Icon and Spam Arcane Blast
3. Pop Ivy and spam Frostbolt (since pop Ivy with Arcane Blast spam runs into GCD issue).
4. Pop Cold Snap and repeat 3 again.
5. Resume normal rotation with ABx3, Fbx3 when cooldown is not up.

Does this work? Should I wait on Icon (2 m) for it to stack up with Arcane Power (3m) again and repeat 1-5? Or should I just pop it when it's up during my normal rotation?

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Old 03/08/08, 7:35 AM   #84
Mynak
Von Kaiser
 
Mynak's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
I know that the common practice is to use a mana gem/mana pot as soon as you can, but what if you timed the start of your Icy Veins so that after 8 fireballs with the Icy Veins buff, your mana pool would be 40% (or 20% for the 2pc T6 bonus), and then use the remaining 2 seconds of the Icy Veins buff to channel Evocation back to full mana. Would this be a bad use of Evocation? Is the 20% time that you save on your Evocation worth more than that extra Fireball that could've gone off in that 2 second time frame, or is it better to just mana gem/mana pot as normal and Evocate later on?

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Old 03/08/08, 3:32 PM   #85
Muphrid
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Llane
Originally Posted by Mynak View Post
I know that the common practice is to use a mana gem/mana pot as soon as you can, but what if you timed the start of your Icy Veins so that after 8 fireballs with the Icy Veins buff, your mana pool would be 40% (or 20% for the 2pc T6 bonus), and then use the remaining 2 seconds of the Icy Veins buff to channel Evocation back to full mana. Would this be a bad use of Evocation? Is the 20% time that you save on your Evocation worth more than that extra Fireball that could've gone off in that 2 second time frame, or is it better to just mana gem/mana pot as normal and Evocate later on?
If you must Evocate at some point, that is not a bad use of Icy Veins, as the saved time will more than make up for the Fireball you could have cast. In essence, you're getting well over 20 seconds of hasted time by using Evo right at the end.

You don't need a full two seconds left on IV to start to Evocate, though. You only need enough time that you're actually channeling before IV fades.

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