Quozzy

Try checking the main holy paladin thread

The Healadin Thread

 

galzohar

Basically haste will still be a matter of "do I really need more efficiency or more HPS?" as the efficiency gain from having higher HPS is still "only a side effect" and haste items will still have a severe efficiency cost. All it means that you'll have a little lower efficiency loss by stacking haste, and your "max burst" will increase a little if you consider it being the precasted FoL+reactive HL. If you're gearing haste becuase the fight is intensive and you HL a lot, the patch changes will make less of a difference.
At the end the benefit is dependant on what you use haste for, and the loss of efficiency (if you actually need it) is not much smaller. Overall a nice boost but not a huge one.

As for calculating the efficiency from haste, it's not hard to figure out the haste->mp5 conversion with the changes, although there's not much point in it becuase if you're gearing haste you probably don't care about efficiency anyway and all that matters to you is burst - this general guidline remains unchanged in 2.4, as even with faster flashes haste is still mostly a HPS increase and the side-effect efficiency is very small that items with haste on them will still be horrible when efficiency matters, and awesome when it doesn't matter.

 

Kayella

My apologies, I should have checked the main thread I'd wrongly assumed most discussion had moved over here.

It does seem to bring haste into a better position as a 'main' stat for a balanced set of gear for the average paladin who uses a mixture of FoL and HL. If you're min-maxing gear per encounter than it may favour short burst fights, but it does look to make an interesting way to maximise raw healing output. Some interesting debate about the virtues of haste vs. heal, will definitely be keeping an eye on the maths, thanks.

 

galzohar

If mana is a limiting factor, the benefits of haste are marginal at best, 2.4 or not (although slightly more with 2.4 changes). If mana is not a limiting factor, haste gives a bit more benefit with the 2.4 changes that it does now.

 

Heysues

Haste would be usefull only on fights where there isn't really a chance that your going to run out of mana. Haste is a very expensive stat, I would only use it on trash to beat out those danm Chain Heal bots....

Thanks for destroying an interesting discussion though...

Mashing two buttons is the ONLY way to heal.

 

vorda

If with interesting dicussion you'r referring to the rather pointless almost-flamewar of Glazohar and flyingtoastr, Goss summed it up pretty nicely here: [Paladin] Holy raid itemization for best performance .

I also gear as 'FoL' spammer, but on most fights I maintain a 60% FoL 40% HL balance over a full Hyjal night and a ~ 55% FoL 45% HL over a full BT night.

I gem for +heal because in my opinion, crit is unreliable HPS and efficiency isnt a problem, since I can assume I always have a spriest (we can swap ourselves in/out the tank group with other palas if needed).

 

Macharius

Splitting your stats into Burst healing/total healing is a good way of looking at it so thanks for that Galzohar. The third, for anyone, would be stamina. So how good your gear is depends on:
1. Your burst healing capability
2. Your total potential healing over a fight (If you use 100% mana)
3. Your survivability (stamina)

 

Macharius

I have made a spreadsheet to evaluate #2 and I hope to put it up here soon, so if you're interested look out for it.

 

levk

Argument over crit vs mp5 is pointless and can go either way depending on playstyle and personal superstitions. Besides, the only guilds who'll continue raiding after the next couple of weeks are ones with a reasonable shot at KJ before expansion. Now if you want to talk about 3.0 mechanics at level 80 I think that would be more meaningful.

I see intellect becoming the dominating stat - with replenishment and divine plea mechanics it provides the best regen per budget point just on those two alone. And then you get the crit and spellpower with it as well. Mp5 falls to the least useful stat that is actually useful, so on a typical "5 stat item" (stam + int + spellpower + crit + haste/mp5) it takes place of haste. I think most people will choose haste here although this is probably based on current throughput requirements at endgame; it's quite possible haste might not be all that optimal until a bit into the expansion cycle.

Based on that, the new JC mana trinket looks very strong to start raiding (again), the only way it could be better if the on use functioned like lifegiving gem (increasing total mana pool for X seconds and restoring that much mana) so that you'd get increased returns on replenishment.