Rawr Model Development (b16.1 released on 9/15) - Page 34

Dandis · 06/25/08, 9:12 AM

I noticed that there is no option for Sanctity Aura (or improved Sanc Aura, for that matter) in the buffs menu. It shouldn't be too hard too implement since it's a static 10% multiplier to all holy damage and 2% multiplier to ALL damage for the improved.

TimWischmeier · 06/25/08, 9:39 AM

A few days ago I started laying out my gear for MTing Brutallus. It's basically 6/8 T6 + Commendation, BoT and Wildfury Greatstaff (no luck for PoF, had 1 drop right at the start of Hyjal, we rolled for it, because I thought it would drop again...).

So I set up everything, adjusted buffs and debuffs, and open the "Direct Upgrades" Tab, using "Survival" (which makes sense when you prepare for Brutallus). I even checked and unchecked some of the short duration buffs to see if that would change some of the direct upgrades. And here's what I cannot explain:

The Pillar of Ferocity always comes out on top of all direct upgrades. But if I check one or both of the BoT/Commendation buffs, the PoF disappears from the table of the upgrades. That does not only makes sense to me (it should always be better in terms of survival compared to Wildfury), but I also cannot explain that.

I attached the xml-File for that character:
RapidShare: Easy Filehosting

Edit: fixed uploaded file

Bashui · 06/25/08, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by angi

Looking in the source code of the cat module, i can see an assumption that a powershift gives 17 energy.
The maximum possible energy gain from a powershift is 20 energy, based on my experience because of furor lag. Isn`t it more reasonable to assume 10 energy per shift as a result of that, or is my observation wrong and furor lag is lower than the energy tick rate?

Your regen timer resets when you shift and the energy from furor does lag a bit, but the lag doesn't have anything to do with the average gain per shift.

The gain per shift is 40-energy-ticktime*10 where tick time is the time since the last energy tick, furor lag isn't part of the equation.

Bashui · 06/25/08, 9:53 AM

Originally Posted by TimWischmeier

A few days ago I started laying out my gear for MTing Brutallus. It's basically 6/8 T6 + Commendation, BoT and Wildfury Greatstaff (no luck for PoF, had 1 drop right at the start of Hyjal, we rolled for it, because I thought it would drop again...).

So I set up everything, adjusted buffs and debuffs, and open the "Direct Upgrades" Tab, using "Survival" (which makes sense when you prepare for Brutallus). I even checked and unchecked some of the short duration buffs to see if that would change some of the direct upgrades. And here's what I cannot explain:

The Pillar of Ferocity always comes out on top of all direct upgrades. But if I check one or both of the BoT/Commendation buffs, the PoF disappears from the table of the upgrades. That does not only makes sense to me (it should always be better in terms of survival compared to Wildfury), but I also cannot explain that.

I attached the xml-File for that character:
File-Upload.net - OxratBearBrutallus.rar

I wasn't able to download your file (winrar says the file is damaged) but I was able to reproduce it with my own setup. I'll look into why it is getting culled from the list.

TimWischmeier · 06/25/08, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by Bashui

I wasn't able to download your file (winrar says the file is damaged) but I was able to reproduce it with my own setup. I'll look into why it is getting culled from the list.

Fixed it, should have double checked the hoster before posting. Works now with rapidshare.

I looked further into the problem, and it seems that PoF disappears when your chance to not be hit is greater than a certain value. If you uncheck BoT and Commendation but also uncheck Sunwell Radiance or check Dualwield malus, it also disappears.

angi · 06/25/08, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Bashui

Your regen timer resets when you shift and the energy from furor does lag a bit, but the lag doesn't have anything to do with the average gain per shift.

The gain per shift is 40-energy-ticktime*10 where tick time is the time since the last energy tick, furor lag isn't part of the equation.

Allright, then you can get a maximum of 30 energy (1 sec gcd between last attack and shift) out of a shift in the best case scenario.
So when the cycle is energy tick/shred/shift you also have lagg between the the energy tick and shred and shred and the shift. With 200ms lagg thats 4 energy less. Thats 13-15 energy per shift in the middle and not 17. Or am i overseeing something?

• Astrylian · 06/25/08, 11:09 AM

Furor always happens before an energy tick.

There's no active development of Rawr.Rogue. Spread the word about needing a dedicated C# dev to build it!

Lazarien · 06/25/08, 11:30 AM

Any news about the elemental shaman rawr? A lot of people have been waiting for a long for it

(yeah i am one of them!) And thank you all for the great tool!

angi · 06/25/08, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Furor always happens before an energy tick.

Yes but you loose the time before the shift, after the last energy tick. And there is always a global cooldown of the last shred behind that tick. The time between the tick before the shift and after the shift is minimum 3 seconds, so you loose one second of energy regeneration.

• Astrylian · 06/25/08, 11:35 AM

ElemSham is actually in progress, as of late.

Lazarien · 06/25/08, 11:39 AM

if there is a alpha version of it i really like to see it and maybe help on developing it

Mijae · 06/25/08, 1:55 PM

Originally Posted by Carlos

Ok, going back to the basis of Rawr, which Toskk's Calculator and the development together with Emmerald you might want to look at this post. Toskk, do you read these forums?

This looks like at least all misses during the cycle are accounted for as you already stated. Going back to the rotation in a perfect world you would lose 1 Second and 30 Energy in case of a missed rip. This would let you drop to 10 Energy after the second Rip to and let you powershift if you are using the current macro's. So basically you lose 1 Second of perfect rotation.

Again, in that thread they only discuss misses in respect to combo point generation and total energy consumption. It does not account for time lost on Mangle or Rip uptime that I can see.

After you Rip the second time, an energy tick will occur before you can powershift. Even if you do powershift, by time 2 GCD pass you will almost guaranteed to have missed the first tick of Rip (especially considering the slight travel time of Mangle that enables "Super-Rips").

0.0 tick 70
0.5 Rip (miss) 40
1.5 Rip (hit) 10
2.0 tick 30
2.5 shift 40
3.5 Rip tick ***
3.5 Mangle 5

OR

0.0 tick 70
0.5 Rip (miss) 40
1.5 Rip (hit) 10
2.0 tick 30
3.5 Rip tick
4.0 tick 50
4.5 Mangle 15

• Astrylian · 06/25/08, 2:03 PM

That looks correct, Mijae. A missed Mangle also costs ~4% of a rip. (Though using a powershift macro prevents the first possibility from happening)

• Astrylian · 06/25/08, 4:18 PM

PLEASE STOP MAKING MODELS INDEPENDENTLY!

Three times this week, someone has come to me saying that they've built a Rawr model for X class/spec/whatever, when we already have been working on a model for that.

If you'd like to work on a model, TELL ME BEFOREHAND, so we can get you hooked up with source control access, you can develop based on the most recent codebase, and you don't duplicate the work of others.

Thank you.

P.S. Currently in-progress new models, hopefully to be ready for b15: Tree, RestoSham, DPSWarr, Hunter, Tankadin. No promises, but that's our goal.

Carlos · 07/03/08, 11:49 AM

I hope the last post is not stopping people to post here in case of questions. I am advertising Rawr to a lot of people currently in my guild. Do you have a aim when you want to release b15?

• Astrylian · 07/03/08, 12:05 PM

Yes, but not a specific date, rather a specific point of progress... We've got quite a few new models in progress, and we want to release b15 once they're all solid enough for initial release. (Also, edited that last post to be a little less abrasive... Still, don't independently develop models, please).

I know it's been a while since we've had a new release. There's just so much new work going on for Rawr, it's hard to find a good stopping point.

Carlos · 07/04/08, 8:12 AM

I am working in a Investment Bank were everything is about time-to-market. That makes me used to very frequent changes. 80/20 is good enough for most of the things, but in case of theorycraft I think better be as good as possible.

• Astrylian · 07/04/08, 10:26 AM

I don't really understand what you said, but anyone who really wants new Rawr now, you can always grab the latest source code and build it yourself (MS Visual C# Express is free).

Lord Loom · 07/04/08, 1:40 PM

I think he's saying that there's no need to rush things with a TC tool (although releasing things 80% complete can be perfectly viable in other "markets") like Rawr

• Astrylian · 07/04/08, 1:47 PM

Ah. "Take your time, get it right." Thanks.

Tyrannix · 07/05/08, 3:27 PM

I use the Rawr.Retribution models avidly (I don't believe this issue has any correlation to the specific model), and I'm very grateful for all the work that everyone has done on this program, in all the models. Thanks a lot guys.

The problem at hand is some sort of image issue. I don't know where you're gonna get the info needed to understand/fix the problem so I'll walk you through every step.

When I update the item cache in the tools menu, I then get an error when I click on the shoulders icon (I believe there are probably others in different sections and from what I see I think this issue is linkd to one of the new sunwell shoulders, possibly demontooth shoulderpads) saying:

"Rawr encountered an error while attempting to load a saved image. If you encounter this error multiple times, please ensure that Rawr is unzipped in a location that you have full read/write access, such as your Desktop, or My Documents."

It is in fact unzipped onto my desktop. I hit OK, and it brings up a box titled "FormItemSelection" which reads:

"Unhandled exception has occurred in your application. If you click Continue, the application will ignore this error and attempt to continue. If you click Quit, the application will close immediately. Parameter is not valid."

It also gives me a details box which was rather long, so the link below will take you to a google doc that has it, and probably has the info you need.See the end of this message for detai...

Lord Loom · 07/05/08, 4:57 PM

Tyrannix, the first error might be due to a known (and pretty easy to circumvent) issue that's actually not Rawr's fault but the official Armory's, I pointed out ways to fix it several pages back and the official reply with a link about how to fix it can be found on page 32:

Rawr Model Development (b16.1 released on 9/15)

basically Rawr downloads images from the armory which are corrupted on Blizzard's end and throws this error, you can make a mock-up image and replace the bad images in Rawr's cache and it should work again

Bashui · 07/05/08, 5:39 PM

There is a fix in which will be available with the next release.

Tyrannix · 07/05/08, 7:20 PM

I must have missed it. Thanks a bunch for your help! Still no ETA on next Rawr release date?