DPS Warrior Compendium - Page 11

KooZ · 03/27/08, 7:36 PM

After a while I got the hang of the 2H rotation, so I didn't have to check my swing timers anymore... That makes it much more fun to play, dynamic and even DPS increasing due to no longer positioning yourself, but just moving in between slam/white, on fights like RoS /illidan it's just so much more fun then 17/44.

• Mjollnir · 03/28/08, 2:14 AM

Originally Posted by Voxx

Consumables:

Flask of Relentless Assault: 120 Attack Power. (2 hours, persists through death)
Elixir of Major Strength: 35 Strength. (1 hour)
Elixir of Major Agility: 35 Agility, 20 Crit Rating. (1 hour)
Elixir of the Mongoose: 25 Agility, 28 Crit Rating. (1 hour)
Fel Strength Elixir: 90 Attack Power, -10 Stamina. (1 hour)
Roasted Clefthoof: 20 Strength, 20 Spirit. (30 minutes)
Spicy Crawdad: 30 Stamina, 20 Spirit. (30 minutes)
Talbuk Steak: 20 Stamina, 20 Spirit. (30 minutes)
Spicy Hot Talbuk: 20 Hit Rating, 20 Spirit. (30 minutes)
Elixir of Demonslaying: 265 Attack Power vs Demons. (5 minutes)
Drums of Battle: 80 Haste Rating for party. (30 seconds)*
Drums of War: 60 Attack Power for party. (30 seconds)*
Haste Potion: 400 Haste Rating. (15 seconds, shares Health Potion cooldown)
Insane Strength Potion: 120 Strength, -75 Defense Rating (15 seconds, shares Health Potion cooldown)

Relentless Assault will yield the most dps for the majority of fights. Elixir of Demonslaying can be a better choice for boss fights where the boss is a Demon, bear in mind the short duration however. In addition, Flask of Relentless Assault persists through death whereas the other consumables do not. Roasted Clefthoof is the best dps food you can get unless you are under the 9% hit requirement, in which case Spicy Hot Talbuk can be a better choice. For fights with large amounts of burst AoE damage, either of the two stamina foods can also prove useful. For temporary buffs, Haste Potion is almost always better than Insane Strength Potion. Only if Haste Potion is causing interruptions or problems with maintaining your Slam cycle as 2h dps should you use Insane Strength Potion, however availability is also a factor. Also of note: Elixir of the Mongoose yields better dps for a warrior than Elixir of Major Agility, with or without Blessing of Kings.

Emphasis mine.
I've really started looking into this. When would ISP beat out HP? There's no ifs ands or buts about using haste potion during Recklessness.
Assuming a bossfight takes 3-4 min, that's enough time to pop trinks and cd's twice for a fury warrior of any race. The whole 20 burn is a nobrainer in terms of choice cooldowns and associated consumables.
But what about that initial burst in the first minute? I'd *guess* ISP would prove superior? Haste means faster rage gen (as well as faster burnoff) which means more Heroic Strike burnoff resulting in additional aggro. ISP would award more rage with white hits, and subsequently heroic strikes would hit for more, but the threat 'bonus' to the ability is applied on the swing itself, not the value of the swing. For threat, ISP would win out?
As far as dps during the initial burst, directly influencing BT can't be a bad thing right? BT is unaffected by HP.
WW would be indirectly affected by ISP, not so by HP.
I mention heroic strike and BT because white damage for myself usually sits around 35%, whereas BT and Heroic Strike are pretty even around 16ish, and WW around 8%.
Initial burn: ISP. Recklessness fun: HP.
Without getting into math, does this sound right? Of course I'm going to start testing ISPs into fights, but just wondering if others have thought this through as well.

Delicatessen · 03/28/08, 3:51 AM

Originally Posted by Apate

Have you done much tracking of your hit -> slam delay?

I was using Slammer pre-2.4 and was pretty consistently around .7 (.2s past the cast time) on a tank/spank fight, but around 1s pretty frequently, too. Then there were the flukes showing .13 and such which must be a bug in the WF/Sword Spec detection.

Hopefully someone can make something like that mod, update it, or make quartz better.

Slammer has been updated, i ll test it tonight.

Slammer 2.4

Skragg · 03/28/08, 9:18 PM

So, I've been reading everything you've posted here and I think I may been gimping myself DPS wise. I'm at 13% hit now and my rotation is appearently and old old rotation "BT, WW, HS, Free Space" with Heroic Strike in there when I have excess rage. Well heres my gear anyway (I think its all correct, but one of my trinkets might be off) so I guess if you have any reccomendations on a good rotation (I'm gonna try 3BT 2 WW tonight in Kara) or better gemming/enchants please PLEASE let me know. Thanks in advance.

The World of Warcraft Armory

Graul · 03/28/08, 9:33 PM

There is no magic secret rotation. You simply prioritize BT if it's up then WW adding Heroics as long as they don't interfere with your BT/WW.

Pick up [Dory's Embrace] and [Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots] as badges allow it. Also start running heroic Magister's for [Shard of Contempt] and upgrade those green gems.

Skragg · 03/29/08, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Graul

There is no magic secret rotation. You simply prioritize BT if it's up then WW adding Heroics as long as they don't interfere with your BT/WW.

Pick up [Dory's Embrace] and [Nyn'jah's Tabi Boots] as badges allow it. Also start running heroic Magister's for [Shard of Contempt] and upgrade those green gems.

Yeah, I've been looking at that cloak. But I've also been looking at the Plate boots off Kael (as I'm trying to save my badges for the loot from the new content when it comes out. Nearly 200 now)

What gems would you reccomend? I've been looking at possible replacing some of the +hit with +Str, but I want to make super sure before I invest the cash.

Graul · 03/29/08, 1:44 PM

Gem the way you have been, just use the superior versions. And get a new meta. RED if you can.

Ganesss · 03/29/08, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Voxx

Hit Table:

Miss - 28% (9% for specials or when not dual wielding)
Dodge - 5.6% (see below)
Parry - 0%*
Glancing - 25% (25% vs a mob 3 levels above you, unchangeable)
Block - 0%*
Critical - Varies (this varies from player to player)
Crushing - 0% (players cannot Crush)
Normal Hit - [100% – {Miss + Dodge + Parry + Glancing + Block + Critical + Crushing}] (this is the leftover)

*Not actually 0%, but for all intents and purposes mobs cannot Parry nor Block attacks made from behind, which is where you should be dps'ing from.

That's the priority for attacks. Players cannot land Crushing Blows, mobs cannot land Glancing Blows. Mobs can't Parry or Block from behind, which is where your melee dps should be done. Dodge is assumed to be 5.6% for most bosses. Important to note that additional +hit does NOT increase your chance to land a Normal Hit, but rather DECREASES your chance to Miss.

In this fashion, under extreme circumstances you can become "crit capped" where additional Crit will not increase your chance to land a Critical Strike. This occurs if the total value of the options above Critical Strike on the attack table become sufficiently high as to reduce the possible Crit below it's normal value. Example:

Miss - 28%
Dodge - 5.6%
Parry - 0%
Glancing - 25%
Block - 0%
Critical - 50.5%
Crushing - 0%
Normal Hit - 0%

Under these circumstances, Crit will be capped at 40.5% even though you have a 50.5% listed chance. This is because the total cannot be more than 100%. 100% - (28% + 6.5% + 0% + 25% + 0%) = 41.4%. For most sensible levels of gear and under most circumstances, you will not reach the crit cap unless affected by something along the lines of Recklessness which would grossly inflate your Crit chance.

I'm a little confused by this. As Axe spec with a feral druid in my group, I very easily can go above 40.5% crit chance raid buffed. Is this saying every point of crit above that is wasted? I see this only applies "under these circumstances," but I'm not seeing it said where these circumstances would be happening, or if that is always true.

Nezralix · 03/29/08, 6:08 PM

Originally Posted by Ganesss

I'm a little confused by this. As Axe spec with a feral druid in my group, I very easily can go above 40.5% crit chance raid buffed. Is this saying every point of crit above that is wasted? I see this only applies "under these circumstances," but I'm not seeing it said where these circumstances would be happening, or if that is always true.

Your miss chance will not be 28% while using a two-hander. It will be somewhere under 9%, depending on how much hit rating you have.

Machinator · 03/29/08, 6:09 PM

Well if you are axe spec you probably arent DW and so dont have the 19% miss penalty, and are probably hit capped so you have 0% miss which opens up the table significantly. In practice the worse case would be DW with only 9% hit, where the cap would be just over 50% crit.

seasonlight · 03/30/08, 9:00 PM

[Shard of Contempt] and [Berserker's Call] OR
[Shard of Contempt] and [Madness of the Betrayer]

Voxx · 03/31/08, 1:10 AM

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

Emphasis mine.
I've really started looking into this. When would ISP beat out HP? There's no ifs ands or buts about using haste potion during Recklessness.
Assuming a bossfight takes 3-4 min, that's enough time to pop trinks and cd's twice for a fury warrior of any race. The whole 20 burn is a nobrainer in terms of choice cooldowns and associated consumables.
But what about that initial burst in the first minute? I'd *guess* ISP would prove superior? Haste means faster rage gen (as well as faster burnoff) which means more Heroic Strike burnoff resulting in additional aggro. ISP would award more rage with white hits, and subsequently heroic strikes would hit for more, but the threat 'bonus' to the ability is applied on the swing itself, not the value of the swing. For threat, ISP would win out?
As far as dps during the initial burst, directly influencing BT can't be a bad thing right? BT is unaffected by HP.
WW would be indirectly affected by ISP, not so by HP.
I mention heroic strike and BT because white damage for myself usually sits around 35%, whereas BT and Heroic Strike are pretty even around 16ish, and WW around 8%.
Initial burn: ISP. Recklessness fun: HP.
Without getting into math, does this sound right? Of course I'm going to start testing ISPs into fights, but just wondering if others have thought this through as well.

I think this comes down to how good your tanks are really. I haven't really come across a fight (except for special cases like RoS) where I can't more or less nuke to my heart's content from the get-go. I suppose if you find yourself threat capped during the first 30 seconds or so of the fight when using Haste Potions then you might see a slight dps increase in going for Insane Strength instead. However there aren't too many fights where I feel comfortable popping expensive consumables within the first seconds of the fight, obviously a fight like Brutallus being the exception.

I'm pretty sure that the auto-attack dps gained by HP would outweigh the benefits of ISP adding to your BT and WW damage. Considering that for me HS and white damage are generally close to 60% together, 25%-ish haste on 60% of my damage would, I think, be better than something less than 25% of my AP. I'm not really backing this up with much heavy math because I haven't done any on it yet, but like I said earlier I think it just comes down to whether you become threat capped by popping HP or not.

Voxx · 03/31/08, 1:14 AM

Originally Posted by gemmanite

i'm not sure these numbers are correct, this is what i calculated:

Expertise Rating "requirements":

0/2 Weapon Mastery: 23 Expertise = 91 Expertise Rating.
1/2 Weapon Mastery: 19 Expertise = 75 Expertise Rating.
2/2 Weapon Mastery: 15 Expertise = 60 Expertise Rating
2/2 Weapon Mastery and Human/Orc Racial: 10 Expertise = 40 Expertise Rating.
Human/Orc Racial only: 18 Expertise = 71 Expertise Rating.

Fixed, not sure how I calculated this wrong but thanks.

Orcheon · 03/31/08, 7:29 PM

This is..well, I suppose this fits here. I'm the MT of my guild and I have been letting my OT tank some fights, and as of late we've been having somewhat of a shortage on DPS warriors and melee in general--and my friend, our rogue leader, has asked me on certain fights where we have the tanks anyway to step into that DPS role. I did as such on Archimonde, and as a normal prot spec--9/5/47, not even 12/5/44--I was pumping out roughly 1500 DPS in about half PVP gear and half PVE gear, with Syphon MH/Swiftsteel OH(I upgraded the OH to S3). I've basically been doing some theorycrafting, and while obviously prot DPS cannot match up to fury or arms due to threat cap issues, I'd rather not respec when asked to DPS, so i'm going to..wing it as prot.

My general idea is, since much of my damage is yellow, to completely stack AP and Armor penetration, and have crit and hit as an afterthought. Any suggestions beyond this?

Fortris · 03/31/08, 8:00 PM

I apologise if this has been covered elsewhere, but i searched for it as best i could and couldnt find anything relevant.

The default Fury DPS build is 17/44/0, with Rampage.

Rampage adds 275AP to your damage output, fixed, and it doesnt scale. The 21 point Arms talent, Deathwish, is a percentage increase (20% extra DPS, 1/6th of the time, more if you coincide trinket use/etc with it).

Therefore, it stands to reason that, eventually, with an appropriate level of gear, Deathwish would provide a greater increase to overall damage output than Rampage does.

Has anyone here ever theorycrafted as to what level of gearing you would require before a 21/40 build (like so : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) before Deathwish can provide a greater increase in output, given the loss of 275AP from Rampage and the 3% extra hit rating required from losing Precision?

Also (and this is the killer), is this level of gearing achievable with current available itemisation?

Voxx · 04/01/08, 12:59 AM

Originally Posted by Fortris

I apologise if this has been covered elsewhere, but i searched for it as best i could and couldnt find anything relevant.

The default Fury DPS build is 17/44/0, with Rampage.

Rampage adds 275AP to your damage output, fixed, and it doesnt scale. The 21 point Arms talent, Deathwish, is a percentage increase (20% extra DPS, 1/6th of the time, more if you coincide trinket use/etc with it).

Therefore, it stands to reason that, eventually, with an appropriate level of gear, Deathwish would provide a greater increase to overall damage output than Rampage does.

Has anyone here ever theorycrafted as to what level of gearing you would require before a 21/40 build (like so : Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft) before Deathwish can provide a greater increase in output, given the loss of 275AP from Rampage and the 3% extra hit rating required from losing Precision?

Also (and this is the killer), is this level of gearing achievable with current available itemisation?

I think for most t6 warriors, point for point Deathwish is better than Rampage.

I think that if you can consistently crank out about 2000 dps and your Deathwish usage is near-perfect you might see a small dps increase in going 21/40 vs 17/44. The interesting thing that I just started thinking about though is that Humans/Orcs can cap their Expertise with the new trinket from Magister's Terrace Heroic and the new t6 belt. If they're already Expertise capped then the 2 points in Weapon Mastery shouldn't actually be worth anything in terms of dps leaving Deathwish only needing to out perform 1% hit and Rampage. At my gear level and average dps, Deathwish would come out ahead under those circumstances... perhaps something to look into if I ever manage to get both the t6 belt and the trinket.

Edit: After re-reading your post I notice you did include that you would have to dump 3% hit from Precision.

Azev · 04/01/08, 1:53 AM

I recently xfer'd to a guild working on Brutallus and tonight was unexpectedly called in. I have experience with all of hyjal/bt on my druid and 5/5 hyjal 8/9 BT on my warrior. I'm usually pretty solid on DPS, 3-4th spot maybe pulling anywhere from 1.3k-1.8k DPS (broad range I know, but certain encounters kill). I use a basic rotation: BT/CD/WW, wash rinse repeat, throwing in as many HSs are rage permits. So tonight on Brutallus I was thinking patchwerk 2.0 - time to have some fun. But for the first hour and a half or so I was consistently pumping out weak 1.2-1.3k DPS attempt and on some only 1k-1.1k.
WWS of the kill
Here I finally pulled out 1.5k which is more what I expected, but it took everything I had and I STILL fell way short to just about everyone else.
Armory

The only difference is for the fight I was wearing my sapphire.

Is this something on my end of the game or can I chalk being so low to the level of the encounter vs the level of my gear?

Kaan · 04/01/08, 2:08 AM

Well,

#1: the warrior ~600 DPS over you has very superior gear compared to you (especially the Warglaive-Set is a big boost versus Demons)

#2: it's rumored that Brutallus has very high armor (perhaps 9k+), this may cause that you experience a clearly DPS decrease compared to "normal" bosses with 7700 (most BT encounters) or 6200 armor (all hyjal encounters), however at this time its forbidden to discuss any Sunwell encounters on this base in EJ forums.

edit: also it seems (according to the WWS) that Sangeaotter used [Elixir of Demonslaying] and you don't.

Azev · 04/01/08, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Kaan

Well,

#1: the warrior ~600 DPS over you has very superior gear compared to you (especially the Warglaive-Set is a big boost versus Demons)

#2: it's rumored that Brutallus has very high armor (perhaps 9k+), this may cause that you experience a clearly DPS decrease compared to "normal" bosses with 7700 (most BT encounters) or 6200 armor (all hyjal encounters), however at this time its forbidden to discuss any Sunwell encounters on this base in EJ forums.

edit: also it seems (according to the WWS) that Sangeaotter used [Elixir of Demonslaying] and you don't.

#1) Our guild has had so many glaives drop they had to give a MH to a pally (yeah I know right?!) So hopefully one will drop soon for me.

#2) This was the same conclusion I was coming up with, since most everyone else had much much more ArP then I did as well.

The WWS doesn't show it, but around attempt 8 or 9 I switched from FoRA to the elixir.

Messman · 04/01/08, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Axodry

So are we saying that if your DW'ing and you have achieved the 9% soft hit cap, that you should stop aiming for gear with Hit% if you can get gear with more Crit/AP/ArP etc?

What about for 2h? What's the best number to shoot for?

Wildstyle · 04/01/08, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Azev

I recently xfer'd to a guild working on Brutallus and tonight was unexpectedly called in. I have experience with all of hyjal/bt on my druid and 5/5 hyjal 8/9 BT on my warrior. I'm usually pretty solid on DPS, 3-4th spot maybe pulling anywhere from 1.3k-1.8k DPS (broad range I know, but certain encounters kill). I use a basic rotation: BT/CD/WW, wash rinse repeat, throwing in as many HSs are rage permits. So tonight on Brutallus I was thinking patchwerk 2.0 - time to have some fun. But for the first hour and a half or so I was consistently pumping out weak 1.2-1.3k DPS attempt and on some only 1k-1.1k.
WWS of the kill
Here I finally pulled out 1.5k which is more what I expected, but it took everything I had and I STILL fell way short to just about everyone else.
Armory

The only difference is for the fight I was wearing my sapphire.

Is this something on my end of the game or can I chalk being so low to the level of the encounter vs the level of my gear?

Another major difference between you and "the other warrior" in addition to what kaan pointed out is that your guildmate has 17 expertise, which puts him slightly over(or close to depending on wherver Boss dogdge figure is 5.6 or 6.5) the Expertise cap (from behind) with 2/2 Weapon Mastery whereas you have 0. Now this can make quite a huge difference in dps (granted not 600, but it will account for a decent chunk).
Now I have no idea as to how the Shard of Contempt shapes up against the good old DST (assuming you are using Solarian's trinket) as I have not yet read any theorycraft on it nor have I seen any comparative numbers on that topic, but considering how easily obtainable the shard is, it would probably be a good idea to get your hands on one and maybe test it out how it compares to DST on your next Brutalus kill (or if you are lucky maybe you'll be able to wear both)

Other than That I thought I'd compare the sources of damage output on your brutalus kill:

Him You

314.000 246.000 White damage
234.000 117.000 Heroic Strikes
107.000 80.000 Blood Thirst
55.000 50.000 Execute
53.000 46.000 Whirlwind

Now the one stat jumps out immediately, and that's the difference in Heroic Strike damage, as it seems he did double the amount of damage with HS than you did. Yes it does appear that you got a tad unlucky with your crits on HS, but that alone won't even come close to making up the difference. Taking a close look at the HS row it appears that you used HS ~100 times (rough estimate) whereas he did so ~150 times. Now I don't know whether that's all down to the difference in gear, ie clearly superior rage generation on his part, as the huge difference in white damage clearly indicates. The Warglaive Proc combined with more Ap (vs demons), more expertise and ~4% more crit (from armory stats, subtracting TT stats) will make for a huge difference in overall dps and rage generation.

Also don't forget that he basically gains one trinket slot over you, since he gains the AP buff from your SS too.

PS Good luck on the Glaives

Edit: 2/2 Weapon Mastery not 3/3 Precision.