• landsoul

Fight and situation dependant, an agressive player does have a chance at topping meters. Especially if that player's guild's players arent aggressive on the DPS.

Specs I've seen top meters in my guild:
Sword Rogue
BM Hunter
Destro Warlock
Fury Warrior
Arcane Mage

Specs I've seen in top 3 that havent yet topped meters:
Enhancement Shaman
Elemental Shaman
Shadow Priest
Retribution Paladin
Arms/Fury Warrior
Feral Druid
Fire Mage

 

Calgar

I'd agree with your assessment Landsoul, we've had our enhancement shaman push 1900 DPS on teron, and i've pushed 2000 dps myself as arms/fury as well. That said, we ate 4 bloodlusts over 3.5 minutes.

 

Giantlol

I'm curious as to how your tank held aggro through four bloodlusts

 

Gruntle

Not sure what you mean, execute surely constitutes an action?

I'm not sure you can even declick DI, and if you could I doubt it would have wiped the aggro.

 

Saabik

DI does indeed wipe agro, and it can be clicked off. Prior to 2.3 threat changes for retribution, and old 15% spirit weapons for shaman, we would run into many threat issues on Gurtogg. The strategy was to solestone me, I'll DI him and rez up. He had higher personal DPS than me, so it turned out better than him dying and losing buffs.

 

• Mjollnir

Note that I stated an aside with regards to a level playing field. I have outdps'ed *fully* t6 geared combat swords rogues in my badges/t5/t6 gear on a repeated basis. I know the value in playing smart and aggressively. My statement is that it shouldn't be happening. If said rogues were as skillful (not that I'm the genius dps warrior either) as myself, they would hand me my own. The mechanics are such.

 

Grymm

Generally, when you see a support/hybrid/synergistic class topping the damage meter on a fight, there is a distinguishing element of that player that is not tied into the class its self. They either have superior buffs, superior gear, fantastic latency, or the fight plays to the strengths of that particular class. On rare occassions, with short fights, you'll just have a lucky streak that causes a particular player to output a lot more damage than on overage. It's not really arguable that all classes are created equal with regard to dps potential.

Case in point, as a fury warrior, I tend to excel at gorefiend and RoS. I'm garbage on Bloodboil, Supremus, and Illidan. Kalecgos I do pretty well though we don't really open up DPS on that fight. Brutallus, well, I'll let you know when we kill him. It's tough to gauge when you don't have a full execute phase to bring your DPS up at the end. The reason RoS and Gorefiend are my strong suites is simple. They have little if any moving (exempting poor RoS phase 1s) and incoming damage. Supremus, Bloodboil, and Illidan all have aggro elements.

I do agree, though, that most guilds and players leave enough dps potential on the table (myself included) that a player of more of a hybrid role (again I guess myself included) can pass them on damage.

My guild tends to be a little a-typical as we have a lot of strong caster DPS. We have a number of mages and warlocks capable of 2000 dps. We don't cycle heroisms for the melee then. I have to get my 2000 DPS in on Gorefiend with only 1 sinking heroism.

 

Calgar

@Gaintlol; Our tank is pretty geared. He's hit and Expertise capped, and easily pushes out 1300+ TPS, usually more on gorefiend. As for the night our "melee" group ate 4 bloodlusts, well, the melee group was;

Rogue: 2200 dps or so
Me (Bf Arms): 2000 dps
Enhancement shaman: 1800 dps (His record on gorefiend was 1950-2000 though)
BM hunter: 1800 dps
Feral druid: 1750 dps

Rogue vanished, hunter feigned, the shaman and my own passive -threat was enough combined with salv to keep us alive. We usually run 3 rogues, myself and the shaman, but 2 of the rogues were absent.

@ Grymm/other fury warriors: I love fury, and would love to spec it again, but i was/am of the opinion that Blood Frenzy is greater then the difference in between Arms/Fury DPS....so how are you guys getting away with going fury? You have another DPS warrior? Just don't care? Your dps surpassed the BF/Fury margin? Physical damage light?

 

Grymm

We're playing with synergy now, but because our raid tends to feature so much caster dps, the gain from BF isn't very good. We have 1 melee group. We usually have 1 hunter, 2 rogues, 1 dps warrior, and 1 enhancement shaman. On occasion, we have a ret paly, second hunter, second warrior, or maybe a third rogue. On Brutallus attempts, we ran 1 fury warrior, 1 enh shaman, 2 rogues, 1 ret paladin (who is usually a holy paladin), and 2 hunters. If you assume 2000 dps per war/rogue/hunter with 1200 for the ret and 1800 for the shaman, that's 13000 phys dps with marginal dps from the tanks. BF is 520 DPS. However, since we don't cycle melee heroisms, the melee is pushing really hard to get 2000 dps. On the vast majority of content we are well under 2000 dps. On Kalecgos, the melee synergy would be destroyed with our tactics. We had a second fury warrior go arms to try and there was a legitimate DPS gap. Really, the only thing that matters DPS wise for us right now is Brutallus and dps isn't our problem. We will never see the enrage timer on him. The first time we last 5:45, he'll die unless we've screwed up horribly. At that point, we scrapped the arms idea.

One problem we had with trying an arms warrior was the required synergy. To keep rage going, you almost need WF. Our other warrior doesn't have a sapphire so taking me out of the WF group cost everyone else almost 90 ap. And then we needed to fit 6 melee into our spacing. It was messy and we didn't need it so we scrapped it.

I have a deep envy for anyone who gets more than 1 heroism in a fight. We were working on Brutallus with only one shaman in the raid last night.

In short, we don't need the BF buff to complete content so running as 17/44 is inconsequential. Additionally, I output more damage from start of a raid to finish than if I was an arms warrior and have less dependencies. I can hit 2k dps on Gorefiend with 1 heroism, no ret paly in the raid, no feral buff, no imp FF, and one heroism. We have mages and locks clearing 2000 dps so we tend to concentrate on that.

 

Serkhet

So... something I just noticed that I couldn't find info about, when I use a adamantite sharpening/weightstone on my offhand, my mainhand also receives the + damage bonus, and vice versa if you sharpen both. Anyone know if this is just a display bug? I tried searching forums about this already.

 

Graul

You can sit side by side with the Rogues in the top 3 on Supremus as well as Bloodboil and with only one Bloodlust as a Fury Warrior. We haven't downed Brutallus yet (9% with an early death), but the DPS spread on that fight seemed fairly equal for the top five for us. The only time Illidan ever seems to be an issue is when the melee are prevented from hitting the embers. I use haste potions on every fight as well as drums though, and not everyone else is as vigilant about consumables.

 

Incredi

With [Shard of Contempt], [Onslaught Belt] and 2/2 weapon mastery we will be 10 expertise rating over the cap.
Have people considered if it would be a dps increase to take 1 point in weapon mastery and put it in imp. execute for example? I realize that doing it will put us 5 expertise rating short of cap but is it worth it?

 

Graul

People are still seeing some dodges even at 6%.

 

• Mjollnir

Hit rating, until capped for specials, is the most valuable stat. Once it reaches the cap, it becomes worthless (not entirely true for DW). The same applies for expertise with respect to dodge.
One would assume being just shy of the mark with more stats elsewhere is more valuable than shooting past the mark. Unlike hit, which for a DW warrior still provides a benefit, you can't over-anti-dodge. I'm sure a simple spreadsheet calculation will find the point of inflection you seek.

 

lachess

I am planning to finish my warrior and get him to 70, but I keep comming to an arguement with a guildmate about fast offhand enchants. He believes that +7 wep damage is superior to mongoose though I think it's the other way around. Would someone be kind to explain this to me and why I would / would not want +7 wep dmg on my offhand?

 

Talorn

Hi

I have question, I am fury at the moment about to spec 2H sword for blood frenzy.

I am confident I have all bases covered over gearing, dps cycle etc. The only thing I am unsure is of which group would you put an arms warrior in?

As far as physical dps that we run in 25's we have it set up like this. The gearing in these groups is mainly T5 / ZA / S3, we are just stepping into Hyjal.

Group 1
Ench shaman
Fury war
Rogue
Rogue
Feral druid

Group 2
Fury war (me - changing to arms)
Bm Hunter
Bm Hunter
Bm Hunter
Rogue

Straight up here I know one of the hunters should spec survival, the question is though, once I respec to arms, Is it better for me to be in the group 1 with the ench shammy rather than the feral??
I am pretty sure it is. The benefit to raid dps from hunters having the feral + myself having windfury + other nice things ench shammy brings + my solarians trinket on group 1 (0ther war does not have), will far and far outweigh group 1 losing 5% crit from feral and the hunters pets losing my battleshout.

Thank you.

 

Lavos

Yes, the hunters are currently gaining nothing from you and all you and the rogue are getting is 3% from the hunters.

Might be wrong here but I think you should be in the Enhancement group along with the third rogue, with the feral and fury warrior (since he doesn't have a sapphire) moving in with the hunters. Unless the third rogue sucks and the fury warrior is putting out better DPS.

In general, you treat arms warriors the same as fury warriors for grouping since they can both bring the same group buffs and Blood Frenzy isn't group-specific.

 

Talorn

Hey thanks for the prompt reply.

The other warrior is one of our top dps. He has the best gear he can get, and always brings his A game. So he'd definetly remain in there.

More dps is allways a good thing!

 

Neldy

Just in relation to the Human/Orc Racial. As of 2.4, when DW'ing expertise doesnt stack, thus being 5 expertise for MH and 5 for OH, would this mean that with 2/2 Weapon Mastery and Human/Orc Racial: 5 Expertise Per hand = 45 Expertise Rating, not 40 as above?

 

Lavos

You're reading it wrong, it's not 10 expertise that's granted from the racial, that's how much expertise you need to cap. With 2% reduced dodge you need 15 expertise to reach the cap, add 5 from a racial bonus and you only need 10 to reach the cap, which is 40 rating.

 

Neldy

Duh, thanks (:

Also, has anyone thought about the [Prism of Inner Calm], it may not directly increase DPS, however with that + salv, you could nearly turn off your threat meter.

 

• Mjollnir

It's been my experience, and many other dps warriors', that Imp Zerk Stance with BoSalv is all you need. On a threat sensitive fight, have the enh sham twist Tranq (yes, Tranq Air Totem) with WF in lieu of GoA. And even then, it's usually only the first 20sec of a fight really that threat is ever an issue.
Losing a precious trinket slot to a threat reducer that only works on about 40% of your attacks is weak.

 

Neldy

I'll take your word for it, not having extensive end game expierence myself I couldn't speak from expierence.

There is alot of good things being said about the trinket for dps off spec classes, such as warriors ret pallys etc who dont have agro dumps.

 

Mogwai

I am almost loathe to post this as i am sure i will get grief somewhere.

I am a dual-glaive fury warrior, whilst i am generally happy with my performance, i do feel like i am only pushing 2000dps on fights where i should be hitting 2200dps or so.

For info:

Wow Web Stats
Armory Lite for Mogwai of Arthas

The brutallus kill is a case in point, whilst i am the raid leader and therefore focusing on other things rather than just my personal dps; i would be interested in any other high-end warriors critiquing my rotation.

I will generally use Bloodthirst/WW on cooldown, but i will admit to sometimes hogging the Heroic strike key at the expense of whirlwind. I also have a habit of being a few seconds later on rampage refresh. Is this the cause of my problems?

Is this the cause of my missing 200 dps, or am i around the dps one would expect? For the record i also received 0 damage from Brutallus so maybe next week with the benefit of added rage my numbers may go up a little.

Thanks in advance. Apologies if i posted this in the wrong thread.

 

• Mjollnir

BB Striker as ranged slot? Come on man, there are plenty of other better options than a mere 25crit rating. Stam comes naturally on plate, there's no need. But you know this.

This exempts you.
Leading a raid is the priority, not your personal dps. While I am not blessed to be visiting Brut just yet, I know from running ZAs that my personal dps suffers about 200-400 depending compared to when I get to back-seat dps. The task of keeping an eye on everyone and everything, juggling Lust rotations etc.. that is the greater good.
I don't think hogging HStrike at the expense of WW is a bad idea necessarily. Obviously you want to put BT and WW on c/d as soon as possible but that's not what is costing you 200dps.
Rampage expiring I take it from your wording: that's a loss of 19ish white dmg dps, and a hair more yellow. Again, hardly the source at hand.