DPS Warrior Compendium - Page 17

Halle · 04/21/08, 7:47 AM

As raid leader nobody should expect you to be owning the dps meters, you simply have more important stuff to do.

Missing cooldowns by even a second or so can amount to huge dps loss over time and it's most likely where your problem is.

BT > WW > Ramp > HS

Try to refresh rampage at 1 second or so, so you arent having to rebuild stacks and getting maximum return for your rage. However never put it before Bloodthirst... WW is debateable but I prefer to WW first.

• Apate · 04/21/08, 10:04 AM

Originally Posted by Neldy

Also, has anyone thought about the [Prism of Inner Calm], it may not directly increase DPS, however with that + salv, you could nearly turn off your threat meter.

I use the prism if I find myself killing VR, and otherwise situationally. Our MT had some account issues that resulted in his gear being peicemeal for a raid on Bloodboil, I had to wear it there. Anytime I feel like I'm in a situation where holding back is difficult (or I just keep pulling aggro), I'll consider the prism. It makes a noticeable difference.

Nen · 04/21/08, 4:22 PM

You might be missing too many BT’s… 41 seems low for brut...

It wouldn’t hurt to put some more –ac pieces on, ranged + badge vendor ring would be the easiest. +12agi to cloak, +12agi/6agi speed to boots wouldn’t hurt either.

shed · 04/21/08, 4:37 PM

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

BB Striker as ranged slot? Come on man, there are plenty of other better options than a mere 25crit rating. Stam comes naturally on plate, there's no need. But you know this.

Plate these days has 0 stam. I'm starting to feel it now that I'm close to 9K unbuffed.

Halle · 04/21/08, 7:59 PM

Zero stam on some gear and still 10% extra damage taken in zerk stance means we are in for a whole lot of pain.

• Mjollnir · 04/21/08, 8:02 PM

Originally Posted by shed

Plate these days has 0 stam.

Point made. Mindset is still stuck pre-2.4.

Bhaltair · 04/23/08, 5:41 AM

After reading all 17 pages of this thread is it fair to say that DPS warriors of either spec should aim for...

Hit: 9% with more added as long as you're not nerfing the others.
AP: As much as possible?
Crit: As much as possible?
Ignore Armor: as much as possible?
Haste: As much as possible without nerfing all of the above seeing as the majority of gear with haste on it seems to be inferior to other items?

I realize that this post might seem over simplified but tbh the theorycraft part of the game for me seems to be taking over the play part of the game and I am quite honestly tired of devoting so much time and effort to it. I do realize however that those who are able to answer these questions with actual facts and numbers have put a lot of work and effort into it and to you I extend my sincere thanks!

Gruntle · 04/23/08, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by Bhaltair

After reading all 17 pages of this thread is it fair to say that DPS warriors of either spec should aim for...

Hit: 9% with more added as long as you're not nerfing the others.
AP: As much as possible?
Crit: As much as possible?
Ignore Armor: as much as possible?
Haste: As much as possible without nerfing all of the above seeing as the majority of gear with haste on it seems to be inferior to other items?

I realize that this post might seem over simplified but tbh the theorycraft part of the game for me seems to be taking over the play part of the game and I am quite honestly tired of devoting so much time and effort to it. I do realize however that those who are able to answer these questions with actual facts and numbers have put a lot of work and effort into it and to you I extend my sincere thanks!

Well, yeah that's more or less like it. You should however try to get a handle on how to weight stats. That will make it quite easy to do theorycrafting on the spot. The problem is that that even though hit is not the best stat it will still add dps (until you reach 28%...), this makes, e.g., an item with 20 hit and 10 str, better than an item with 20 str.

The easiest way to get accurate weights is in my opinion to download landsouls spreadsheet for 2.4. Input all of your gear and check the values for SEP (Strength equivalent points) for each stat. This will tell you that the value of strength is 1 (per definition), that AP is worth 0.45 (due to BoK), hit rating worth 0.6 or so and so on. These weights depend on your gear so it's important that you put in your own gear.

Once you have these values you can use them on, for example, Loot Rank to find the best in slot gear using those weights quick and easy. Of course you can also find this in the spreadsheet (and more accurately), but it might take some time to go through all possible upgrades. You can also use the weights to rank items that drop while in raid (there are addons that can help with this as well, given a weighting setup).

For weapons and trinkets (and gear with procs), the spreadsheet is really the only way to see what's best. But that of course requires that you trust the people who made the modeling for the spreadsheet.

• Apate · 04/23/08, 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by Bhaltair

Hit: 9% with more added as long as you're not nerfing the others.
AP: As much as possible?
Crit: As much as possible?
Ignore Armor: as much as possible?
Haste: As much as possible without nerfing all of the above seeing as the majority of gear with haste on it seems to be inferior to other items?

Hit past 9% is worthless for 2h, Armor Penetration to ~1350 before executioner optimally, but it only hits the cap on low armor, fully-debuffed bosses.

Kaywhy · 04/23/08, 12:03 PM

I am a bit confused as to what is being said in terms of armor penetration. Voxx mentions that there is a soft 1350 armor pen. cap before executioner proc. Voxx goes on to quote the boss armor values from another thread, with many of the armor values being something like 7700 on t6 bosses. I dont understand how there could be a soft cap at 1350 if most bosses have 7700 armor.

1350 armor pen from gear plus executioner (840) and the raid debuffs (2190) adds to 4380 which is 3320 before the boss would reach 0. could someone please confirm this 1350 soft armor pen. cap with me cause i was under the understanding that it would increase my physical damage done exponetialy until the boss or mob reached 0.

my guild is working on brutallus and with the new tier gear and craftable/offset plate/leather gear that has come out there are so many more trade offs to make and knowing that for sure there is a 1350 armor pen cap would really help...

Graul · 04/23/08, 12:18 PM

[RAID] Boss armor values

Grymm · 04/23/08, 12:49 PM

Raid armor debuffs should total to: 4010. (2600 + 800 + 610)
Add to that: 840 (executioner), you're at 4850 armor pen.

Now, take the lowest armored boss, 6200. Subtract 4850. Bingo, 1350. 1350 armor penetration is ALWAYS useful. More than that will be wasted during executioner procs on low armor bosses. Bosses with higher armor than 6200 will allow for more useful armor penetration. Thus, the soft cap is 1350 and the hard cap is whatever you are fighting minus debuffs and procs.

• Mjollnir · 04/23/08, 4:35 PM

Out of curiousity, given the amount and availability of armor pen these days, would it be possible to hit 2k or thereabouts and tradeoff dual goose enchants in lieu of executioner/goose? I'd assume there would be too much stat loss to achieve that sort of sum, but just thinking out loud on this one.

Grymm · 04/23/08, 4:45 PM

I can get up to 1242 without bloodboil pants - though that is for a 2hand cat's edge spec.

bloodboil pants - 350
dory's - 116
T6 shoulders - 91
T6 bracers - 140
T6 chest - 126
T6 helm - 105
rings - 126 x 2 (166 for stormrage I think)
madness - 300 fairly often
silent justice - 175
serrated blades - 175
ZA bow - 126

That's 1955 armor pen with none on boots, belt, 1 trinket, weapons.

Lapp · 04/23/08, 6:28 PM

I'm almost certain that the dodge cap is not 5.6%, as I've heard numerous reports of dodges on Teron, for example, at -6.00% dodge or more. What I hear is that it's ~6.5% or so. Couldn't the actual value (or one awful close) be statistically determined?

• Mjollnir · 04/23/08, 7:25 PM

Originally Posted by Lapp

Couldn't the actual value (or one awful close) be statistically determined?

I believe there is a smattering of tanks who are looking into expertise cap over in the Protection Warrior Guide. We know dodges still occur over 6%, to answer your direct question.

Neldy · 04/23/08, 10:16 PM

I've been playing around a little bit with tweeking my spec and I'm wondering if there'd be any great benefit to having piercing howl?

By dropping 1 point in precision I drop about 50dps I think it was, is this dps made up when using heroic strikes in conjunction with piercing howl? Or would the rage required be too exhaustive?

Lapp · 04/23/08, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by Mjollnir

I believe there is a smattering of tanks who are looking into expertise cap over in the Protection Warrior Guide. We know dodges still occur over 6%, to answer your direct question.

Well, it should be updated in the OP of this thread then, as it almost factually states that it's 5.6% :-P

Warfield · 04/24/08, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by Neldy

I've been playing around a little bit with tweeking my spec and I'm wondering if there'd be any great benefit to having piercing howl?

By dropping 1 point in precision I drop about 50dps I think it was, is this dps made up when using heroic strikes in conjunction with piercing howl? Or would the rage required be too exhaustive?

As far as I know Piercing Howl's daze effect is a "fake" daze and doesn't give heroic strike extra damage. There's also the problem of bosses being immune to Piercing Howl..

• Mjollnir · 04/24/08, 1:09 AM

PHowl does not affect HStrike damage. It was in patch notes at the beginning of BC.
@ Voxx. This question gets asked a lot. Perhaps include in FAQ?

Neldy · 04/24/08, 1:38 AM

Mjollnir, I've read somewhere that it did not affect HStrike damage, however it was a bug which was later fixed. I'll try find previous patch notes either way.

Gruntle · 04/24/08, 4:04 AM

Originally Posted by Lapp

I'm almost certain that the dodge cap is not 5.6%, as I've heard numerous reports of dodges on Teron, for example, at -6.00% dodge or more. What I hear is that it's ~6.5% or so. Couldn't the actual value (or one awful close) be statistically determined?

I know 17 pages is quite a lot of pages to look through, but EJ forums have a search function for a reason

I tried to determine the dodge chance statistically a few pages back (page 14) based on WWS report for Cavein. Based on about 5k swings with 6% antidodge he had a dodge chance of 0.32%. =>
6.32% dodge with 95% confidence to be within [6.27%,6.44%]
(DPS Warrior Compendium)

I don't know why Voxx haven't updated the the compendium on this, that the dodge chance is higher than 5.6% is very certain.

Laditank · 04/24/08, 9:38 PM

I see a lot of talk about the new sunwell AP tempary enchant for weapons being worst then the MC 28 crit stone. I keep looking and I am unable to find any posts with good information explaining why it is better and by how much the 28 stone outshines the new one still. If someone could kindly point me in the right direction that would be great. The new oil is also not in your guide Voxx and I believe it is worth mentioning.

Other thoughts,
If only the Adamantite Sharpening stone and the Oil are available, which one would be better?
I hear rumors (no proof shown in discussion) that the 12 damage and 14 crit stone (numbers might be off) applies the 12 damage to all attacks made and is better then the 28 Crit stone from MC. I highly doubt this but will be testing it later.

Thank you for your time.
-Ladi

*Edit* Before anyone says to just go search, I did and found only 1 really good post with the question I am also asking but he just got ignored for the discussion that was going on and the topic dropped out of site.

Lapp · 04/24/08, 9:49 PM

Different topic:

How good is the new Righteous Weapon Coating vs. Elemental Sharpening Stone on your offhand?

I've been searching but haven't found any concrete evidence. The consensus seems to be that it has about a 40-45s ICD with ~15% proc rate, which would make it, about 20% uptime of 300 AP, I suppose, or 60 AP, vs 28 crit. However other concurrent procs and CDs would increase the coating proc's value. I also saw something about using Elemental Stone on your primary offhand and swapping to an offhand with the coating every ICD, kind of like Spellsurge for healers.

So yeah, discussion commence!

*Edit* Heh, I wasn't able to see the above post when I made this reply >.< sorry

Voxx · 04/24/08, 10:56 PM

Many apologies for the long delay in updates, I've been pretty busy lately. I'll add the new oil to the consumables, update the Expertise section to reflect boss dodge as some value over 6% and under 7%, exact value not yet determined, and also add Piercing Howl/Heroic Strike question to the FAQ section. Thanks for keeping the discussion alive and having patience with me and my hectic life.

Edit: Updated