• landsoul

People were just contacted to start working on it.

 

Gruntle

Where do you get the "5% + .4% per level for mob 3+ levels" mechanic from? Has anyone done detailed testing of this vs lv 71 and 72 mobs? People used to say it was 5.6 vs boss mobs, making it 5 + 0.2 per lvl difference. This has been proven wrong. Any +0.4 dodge per level mechanic needs to be tested before putting it into the compendium.

For that matter 6.2% dodge is rejected at a 95% confidence level by the statistics made of Caveins logs.
(from my post with the statistics)
6.25% is ok, since it's gearwise the closest thing to aim for. But it's most likely not the cap.

Also, similarly to how weapon skill worked before Expertise was introduced, it could be that it's not a linear scale. Well, Expertise is for sure, but the base dodge chances could very well be something like 70 - 5%, 71 - 5.6%, 72 -6.0 %, 73 -6.4%. There is no way of knowing until people do the tests.

 

powersofpain

Great thread. I'm unable to start a new thread so I'm posting here in hopes of getting some advice. I've only been playing WoW now for about 4 months and I've had some great help getting geared up. My biggest challenge seems to be getting a good skill rotation down and understanding the timing of what to press and when to press it.

I fairly close stats wise with some of our other fury warriors who are doing anywhere from 800+ to over 1000DPS depending on the situation but I just can't seem to consistently stay above 720+ DPS. I have had times during some Trash mob clears as well as some bosses where I've done 800+ DPS but for the most part there's a lot of time where I don't even break 700DPS overall.

I'm pretty much starting out each fight by doing a battle shout, and letting tank gain agro and then engaging the mob/boss. I first hit BT and WW(if it's safe) and continue to hit them after their cooldown. I'm hitting HS when I get more than 60 rage and if BT and WW are on cooldown I'll throw in a Rampage in there as well. I'm not really using any other skills, once in awhile I'll use a hamstring (should I even be?). Naturally at 20% of bosses I'll switch to execute and then down to 5-8% I'll pop a haste potion, bloodrage and recklessness and spam execute.

I'm just really frustrated as to why I can have close to and in some cases better stats than my peers that are doing anywhere from 100-300DPS more than me every raid. I know a big reason why is because I've been playing only 4 months where they've been playing 2-3 years but I'd greatly appreciate any advice or help. I think my timing needs advice and I think if someone could help me understand if my mechanics are wrong, etc. I can improve. I guess I'm just unsure if I should let my guy just auto attack a little more while slowing down my skill rotation or do I ALWAYS hit BT and WW(if safe) when they're available?

Thanks to anyone who can offer me some sound advice and mechanics. I'm on the US Eonar Realm if you want to check my gear.

Pop

 

Ramayana

You should be hitting BT and WW on every CD, Heroic Strike every time you can without missing the next BT/WW and Rampage should ideally never drop off of you. You keep refering to using abilities "when it's safe", so I;m assuming that means you are constantly riding the ass of your tanks on agro, in which case they need to get better.

Other then that, your gems look fine, your gear looks fine, your spec is fine. Your crit is a little low imo, might want to get that up a little bit, but thats about it. Are you being put in a good melee group? With at the very least a shaman giving you WF, if not that pretty much would explain you doing low DPS.

 

premed

dont forget ham string!

unless you crazy fury guys dont ham string anymore. I figured out MS was better along time ago

 

Gruntle

premed, hamstring is not used in a normal DW fury rotation any longer. It doesn't proc WF since some time and should only be used if you have an insane amount of rage (basically if you have surplus rage even when using HS on every swing).

Powersofpain, it sound like you're doing everything right. I guess (as Ramayana says as well) that you're not getting proper buffs. Having an enhance shaman in your group can increase your dps by as much as 20% (that's what I get in the spreadsheets anyway).

 

Werelds

@ Powersofpain:

Just had a look at your gear and that of your fellow DPS warriors, no big differences really, although there is one who has 3% crit more than you which helps. You all seem to be quite low on +hit though, I even saw one beneath the hit cap? I'd focus on getting slightly more hit, helps a lot with rage income.

You're doing SSC/TK if I'm correct, and I assume you're talking about your DPS on boss fights? On the trash you should be able to top quite easily, with smart use of SS/WW. The bosses in SSC aren't exactly warrior friendly (high armour values and/or lots of down time), TK is a bit of a mix, when combined with the luck factor this can also be part of the problem. On the trash though you should be top quite easily, even in MH I still manage to keep up with most "AoE Classes", apart from Warlocks (damn them!).

You're basically doing the right things, although you need to get Rampage up as soon as you can - and keep it up.

More importantly though, as said above, you keep saying that you use abilities "when it's safe". Assuming you mean you're riding the tanks non-stop on threat, it's most likely a tanking problem. When we did SSC/TK we never had any threat issues, except on Void Reaver; even our worst tank back then pulled 900+ TPS, the guy who is now our MT has always done several hundred more. I never got close to any of them really, at least not until executing phases.


Last but not least: I assume you're getting the same raid buffs, windfury/lotp/unleashed rage/ferocious inspiration etc. ? If not, then that's where the difference comes from.

General guideline:
1. Bloodrage, start white hitting the boss, hit battle shout straight away
2. When GCD is done, either get Rampage up (assuming you've had a crit by now), otherwise hit BT - this should be safe to use, unless your tank has missed everything in these first 3 seconds
3. Keep up the rotation after this: BT and WW on every cooldown, BT gets priority over WW; and make sure to keep Rampage/BS up.
4. If you've got lots of rage but nothing to spend it on, weave in HS. Your rage income should be high enough to use it somewhere every 2-4 swings.


Hope that helped a bit

 

Porkster

Hai im Porkster, and I have a Question about Warriors. It says the hit cap is at 9% minimum, but is 15% the area I would want to aim for? and does this stack with Expertise? I.E. I have 11 Expertise = 2.75% and my current Hit is 183 = 11.60% would this be 14.35% ?

 

Warfield

I would think that what he means by "safe" is that there aren't any crowd-controlled mobs near him, since he mentions "safe" only when talking about whirlwind, not any other abilities.

 

Werelds

You're misunderstanding Expertise. Expertise does not turn dodges/parries into hits, it turns them into misses. So if you have 2.75% dodge/parry neglect, you need 9+2.75=11.75% hit to never miss; which with 11.6% hit + precision, should be more than plenty. And there's not really an amount of hit to aim for, although most have between 180-220 Hit rating.


He said the same thing about using BT though?

 

Yoma

Wrong. Expertise turns dodge/parry into hits, because all outcomes of the attack table are set values besides hit.
However the point stands that there is no magic number to reach with +hit. After +9% it's your personal experience what counts.

 

Crimsonstorm

@Powersofpain: Were you in the same group as those other warriors who did more dps?

If they had a better group, theyd do more dps even if they did everything the same as you.
A shaman for Windfury is the most important, especially an enhancement shaman. Your dps will likely vary by a couple hundred if you have an enhancement shaman vs having no shaman in your group. A resto shaman putting down windfury will be somewhere in the middle.
You also benefit from a feral druid, ret pally, or BM hunter.


@Expertise question:
The miss chance is 9% for a level 73 mob, and the dodge chance is somewhere in the 6.2-6.5% area or so (exact # not currently known). If you attack from the front, there is also a large 12-15% or so parry chance, exact # not known.

Expertise will make the dodges into normal hits, .25% dodge converted to hit per expertise skill (3.94 rating). So 15.8 rating for 1%
Hit rating will make misses into normal hits, 1% per 15.8 rating.

For a fury warrior with 2/2 weapon mastery (2% dodge reduction) and 3/3 Precision (+3% hit), you should aim for at least 95 hit rating, so that combined with precision you have no misses on specials. (Youll still miss on autoattacks, and more hit rating will be beneficial to reduce these, but isnt as beneficial as equal amounts other stats like Str, Crit, or Armor Penetration.
With the 2% dodge reduction youre looking at about 4.25% or so dodges left, so you want around 17 expertise. Thats 68 expertise rating or so. The correct number might be 18 expertise (71 rating) instead. Its unlikely that youll reach this number unless you use certain leather pieces or T6 belt, but getting Shard of Contempt from Heroic Magisters is a huge help and gets you at least near your expertise target number.

 

Voxx

If you think about expertise carefully, if it worked like this then it would hardly be a dps increase at all. If your dodge got turned into a miss, it still doesn't land. You'd need 1% expertise on top of 1% hit to convert the dodged attack to any dps at all.

 

Porkster

So I basically "just" want to aim for that 9% Hit cap as well as 18 expertise and start stacking Strength gems?

 

sdgfour

My guild is currently progressed through Kalecgos.(to give an idea of what gear is available to me) I raid as the only fury warrior. I've read through nearly every post in this thread, as well as many others. I do everything by the book. Keep rampage and bs up, BT and WW when they are up, heroic strike for rage dump, etc. However, my guild doesn't feel I'm doing the DPS that I _should_ be doing. My melee group usually consists of me, a ret pally, 2 rogues and an enhancement shaman. Sometimes it's a hunter instead of the ret pally. What I want to know is, should my dps be higher? If so, how much? I feel like i'm completely missing something. I use relentless assault flasks, roasted clefthoof, sharpening stones, haste pots, everything. I will provide a link to to my armory and wws to browse. I have pretty much all the loot up to kalecgos and I occasionally swap things in and out. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

WWS
Wow Web Stats

Armory
The World of Warcraft Armory

 

Ramayana

Your hit is kind of high, could sacrifice some that for some more AP. Heartshatter BP is kind of trashy, I've never been a fan of it, and if your clearing to Kalec with a little luck you've gotten a Gloves of the Immortal Dusk pattern and can get a pair made. Maybe even if you're ridiculously luck you can get a Hard Khorium Choker and a Hard Khorium Battleplate pattern to drop, both are tremendous upgrades. Get T6 bracers as soon as you can, they're great, maybe get T6 helm and chest along with bracers to get 4 peice, its typically like a 1% DPS increase. Maybe getting a DST over Tsunami Talisman, I'm not sure on that one though, I don't know enough about fury to make that call.

One thing I saw from WWS is that you gained Rampage buff 9 times. Which, I'm pretty sure, means it fell off 9 times and that can't happen. And one thing I don't understand in the WWS is the "Haste" buff in that it says you gained it 4 times. In a 3:32 kill you could only use 2 haste pots, so what are the other 2 from?

 

Porkster

Serious question that I am facing a major dilemma with... Slow or Fast OH?

 

Steveharris

Looks like you only used BT 23 times (12 hit, 9 crit, 1 miss, 1 dodged); in a 3:30 fight you should have 30+ easily. Are you sure BT is going off when you hit it, or are you anticipating the CD and missing due to global overlap? It's also showing you gained Battleshout once, make sure that doesn't fall off, and as Ramayana said, rebuff Rampage before it drops, as you lose a good bit of DPS restacking it.

Other than that, 1855 DPS/4th place doesn't seem too bad for only one heroism; tighten things up a bit and you should break 1900 easy.

 

Siknoz

Hello, I've been DPSing in Kara and ZA for about, 4-5 months... most of those months I was dpsing as MS for Blood Frenzy, I've recently respecced to Fury. Seems like its doing more DPS but I feel like I can do more because I feel like its a little lower than what it should be... my guild thinks so too. I can only do up to about 800 DPS but thats about it.... but thats if I am lucky, it usually says I'm around 780 DPS for overall runs, I can only do maybe 740 DPS on most boss fights but sometimes it's lower, so I wanted to ask... how can I get my DPS higher? currently I only have access to ZA and Kara gears, nothing else.

Wow Web Stats --- This was my last Kara run...

Wow Web Stats --- This was my last ZA run...

The World of Warcraft Armory --- Armory

Buffs I get/use for raids: Flask of Relentless Assault, +20 Strength Food(maybe 20 Hit rating), Blessing of Salvation, Blessing of Kings(if we have 2 pallies), and thats pretty much it...

*edit* My Rotation is just spamming Bloodthirst and WW every time it comes up from Cooldown, I also keep Rampage up as best as I can(Heroic Strike when I have over 60 rage) (Also for my 1st trinket instead of Skybreaker whip its the Romulo's Poison Vial)

This is my first time posting on Elitistjerks, so... sorry if I missed anything

 

Gruntle

See the post by Polishedhead. But I can't resist answering and bringing up a general remark on all these "wha wha wha, I'm not doing enough dps" posts.

Siknoz, 700-800 dps is perfectly acceptable in Kara with no access to T5+ gear. You probably don't have WF either making 800 dps quite good (more than expected in my opinion, maybe you have some S3 gear). Throw away Romulo's vial at once (unless that brings you below 9% hit), the "Core of crappage" ([Core of Ar'kelos]) that I'm still using (freaking trinkets just won't drop for me) is better than the vial.

In general, I think almost all people who post here complaining that their dps is not good enough are exaggerating. Their dps figures are normally fine, they just don't realise that raiding SSC is not the same as raiding BT or SWP in terms of both gearing and how melee friendly the fights are. Sure, there are always points that can be improved on but you won't gain 200 dps by keeping Rampage up 10% more of the time.

In most cases where there is a real issue, WF (or an enhance shaman) is what is lacking. Perhaps it would be a good idea to include a section with buffs in the compendium Voxx? This could include some kind of estimate on how much the dps will increase for each buff (or class of group member giving a bunch of buffs). I have a list of some buffs for my gear (not sure how these things scale though), computed with landsoul's sheet.

Group buffs:
Enhance shaman (with Imp totems and Unleashed rage): +19.6%
Battle shout (Talented + Solarian): +13.5%
WF+Str totem (not improved): +9.7
Battle shout: +8.7%
Agi+Str totem: +7.5% (was actually a bit surprised that agi was this good)
LoTP: +4.8%
FI: +3.2%
Imp. Sanctity aura: +2.1%
Raid buffs
CoR (fully debuffed, low armor boss, using low amounts of gear ArP): +6.5%
CoR (fully debuffed, high armor boss, using low amounts of gear ArP): +5.8%
Blood frenzy: +4.3 %
Imp. SoTC (Retri pala): +3.0%
Imp. Faerie fire (Moonkin): +1.5% (if above 9% hit)

Numbers are of course uncertain, but the order of importance should be fairly constant with upscaling (my gear is a mixture of S3/T5/kara gear). There are probably some buffs missing, but I think most important ones should be there?

 

Porkster

Having a problem that could increase my DPS exponentially. I've argued this with so many Warriors its starting to become annoying. I want to ask a question and please get a response. For Weapons of a Warrior, is it "best" to go with a Slow Fast AND Off hand? or could you go Slow MH and fast OH?

Also, Hit Rating, where do you really want to be at? just 9% and start stacking Strength gems? or get it to about 180/190 Hit rating?

 

Gruntle

Have you even read the compendium Porkster? Do that before asking the same questions again and again.

That being said, I personally don't agree with Voxx's recommendation in the compendium. I do not think there is a noticeable difference between slow-fast and slow-slow. That spreadsheets shows a difference is because the spreadsheets cannot model miss streaks and what spotty rage generation will mean to your cycle dps and heroic strike usage.

 

Yoma

I think your questions were answered on this very page.
Look around in the other warrior threads, plug some numbers in some spreadsheets and see for yourself.
Nevertheless, it is generally accepted, that a slow/slow combination will result in slightly higher dps, since you are using your flurry charges better. However there are some warriors who want a slow/fast combination in favor of a more stable rage income.
After all theorycraft it comes down to your personal choice and what you feel suits your playstyle best.

As for +hit, I go for 9% and after that I favor strength over crit over hit. Add a healthy amount of haste and armor penetration and you're good to go.

 

◊ Kaubel

It's easier to clean up dog shit that hasn't been stepped in and tracked all over the carpet; i.e. stop answering these idiots and their stupid questions and just report their posts.