DPS Warrior Compendium - Page 24

Ramayana · 06/10/08, 2:18 PM

Ah yes that makes sense, I didn't connect the dots and realize that the Dragonmaw buff is called Haste. And yea, that needs to be replaced. Best bet since you have an 1850 arena team is to get a S3 main hand.

Voxx · 06/10/08, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by Gruntle

In most cases where there is a real issue, WF (or an enhance shaman) is what is lacking. Perhaps it would be a good idea to include a section with buffs in the compendium Voxx? This could include some kind of estimate on how much the dps will increase for each buff (or class of group member giving a bunch of buffs). I have a list of some buffs for my gear (not sure how these things scale though), computed with landsoul's sheet.

Group buffs:
Enhance shaman (with Imp totems and Unleashed rage): +19.6%
Battle shout (Talented + Solarian): +13.5%
WF+Str totem (not improved): +9.7
Battle shout: +8.7%
Agi+Str totem: +7.5% (was actually a bit surprised that agi was this good)
LoTP: +4.8%
FI: +3.2%
Imp. Sanctity aura: +2.1%
Raid buffs
CoR (fully debuffed, low armor boss, using low amounts of gear ArP): +6.5%
CoR (fully debuffed, high armor boss, using low amounts of gear ArP): +5.8%
Blood frenzy: +4.3 %
Imp. SoTC (Retri pala): +3.0%
Imp. Faerie fire (Moonkin): +1.5% (if above 9% hit)

Numbers are of course uncertain, but the order of importance should be fairly constant with upscaling (my gear is a mixture of S3/T5/kara gear). There are probably some buffs missing, but I think most important ones should be there?

I could probably try and work something like this in, with a range of % values instead of specific ones (range being from kara/badge gear to top quality). I'm fairly sure that the buffs will scale in accordance with gear as well, so it should be fairly obvious which buffs are better at any level of play.

Cryof · 06/12/08, 7:03 PM

I remeber seeing a 2h Arms pve spread sheet somewhere along this long thread but cant find it, could someone who knows where its at repost it?

Kaywhy · 06/13/08, 12:04 PM

Somewhere in this thread a while back i saw a comment about a crit "cap" at around 41.5%. needless to say i could not find the comment again if someone could verify this as being true with me that would be most excellent... also some proof and/or math to back it up would be awesome.

landsoul · 06/13/08, 1:25 PM

You can reach the crit cap if your hit rating and expertise is garbage. If you increase your hit rating the crit cap becomes more broad. V a 73/boss with only the 9% hit requirement and 0 expertise, the crit cap is 49.8% for white attacks.

This is derived from:
1 - (.25 glancing) - (.28 base miss rate) - (.062 dodge rate) + (.09 Hit rating) = .498

If you were to have zero hit rating:
1 - (.25 glancing) - (.28 base miss rate) - (.062 dodge rate) = .408

Kaywhy · 06/13/08, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by landsoul

You can reach the crit cap if your hit rating and expertise is garbage. If you increase your hit rating the crit cap becomes more broad. V a 73/boss with only the 9% hit requirement and 0 expertise, the crit cap is 49.8% for white attacks.

This is derived from:
1 - (.25 glancing) - (.28 base miss rate) - (.062 dodge rate) + (.09 Hit rating) = .498

If you were to have zero hit rating:
1 - (.25 glancing) - (.28 base miss rate) - (.062 dodge rate) = .408

question... so what what about yellow attacks and crit? and also lets assume that we do have enough expertise to not get dodged with talents and that we also have hit cap?

Voxx · 06/13/08, 6:21 PM

Yes there's a crit cap even with enough expertise to never be dodged. The point is though that at that point the level of crit you would need to have to hit the cap is absurdly high for a raid-setting.

With 9% hit and 6.25% dodge reduction you'd have a crit cap of:
100 - 25 - 15.25 = 59.25% crit cap.

For yellow attacks with 9% hit and no chance to be dodged there is no crit cap so long as you attack from behind.

Finkill · 06/18/08, 3:32 AM

Originally Posted by Voxx

Hit Rating requirements are:

142 hit rating with 0 points in Precision
127 hit rating with 1 point in Precision
110 hit rating with 2 points in Precision
95 hit rating with 3 points in Precision

i thought the hit raiting was 200ish for fury warriors?

LeythG_KI_bladesedge · 06/18/08, 6:33 AM

I have been playing with 171 hit rating and I am quite pleased with it, not sure how high i need to go up with boss fights though. Been a week or two since i've posted, do my stats look right?

2 items I'm not so sure about are how I switched that green trinket in for romulo's poison vial. I read that if i have more than 9% then i dont need that vial, so i figured some AP would be better.

And the stats on my pants looked better than the Tier 5 pants that I had.

Thanks ahead

rejdakon · 06/18/08, 8:04 AM

You should really start using the search-function or reading the major posts at least, before raising the "do i really have to have 200 hit rating"-issue again.

In short: No, you do NOT need 200 Hit Rating. The essential hit rating requirements have been listed above. Everything above that basically only helps your white damage and rage generation.

The exact amount of hit rating to go for depends a lot on the rest of your stats, raid composition, slow/slow-slow/fast weapon combo and, to a large extent, personal preference. But, in principle, beyond the 9% mark, hit is the least desirable of your DpS-stats.

Originally Posted by LeythG_KI_bladesedge

2 items I'm not so sure about are how I switched that green trinket in for romulo's poison vial. I read that if i have more than 9% then i dont need that vial, so i figured some AP would be better.

And the stats on my pants looked better than the Tier 5 pants that I had.

Thanks ahead

Try the spread sheets. T5 and Bloodwarder's are rather close to each other. With epic gems, the difference should be almost zero.

However, I am quite sure that Romulo's will give you more DpS than that green AP-Trinket of yours.

Parabola · 06/18/08, 2:21 PM

While I agree with what's been said generally about hit rating, I think it's been understated in terms of giving you the rage to keep up your cycle. I've found it's been far more important to keep up with my cycle with less haste, but as I've gotten more haste I could afford to drop some hit (200-ish -> 170-ish).

Nevvy · 06/18/08, 10:22 PM

I'm sorry if I missed this but with 4 threads going on its hard to find for sure, is there a consensus on which original t6 piece to use with the 3 sunwell pieces for the set bonus?

shed · 06/18/08, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by Nevvy

I'm sorry if I missed this but with 4 threads going on its hard to find for sure, is there a consensus on which original t6 piece to use with the 3 sunwell pieces for the set bonus?

The census is and always has been that the 4pc isnt really worth keeping (even back in the pre-Sunwell days), the exception is if raiding as arms with T6 helm. As DW fury the only T6 you should have is the newer Sunwell stuff. The Sunwell DPS shoulders are probably the 'weakest' upgrade of them all.

dr_AllCOM3 · 06/19/08, 8:13 AM

Originally Posted by shed

The census is and always has been that the 4pc isnt really worth keeping (even back in the pre-Sunwell days), the exception is if raiding as arms with T6 helm. As DW fury the only T6 you should have is the newer Sunwell stuff. The Sunwell DPS shoulders are probably the 'weakest' upgrade of them all.

No, keeping the shoulders is the best for fury. The SWP ones aren't better.

np|Georgious · 06/19/08, 8:25 AM

Originally Posted by dr_AllCOM3

No, keeping the shoulders is the best for fury. The SWP ones aren't better.

Hm, what about [Demontooth Shoulderpads] ? Does the 4-bonus top it? Because they are much better without it.

Travor · 06/19/08, 9:03 AM

Fury --> keep the t6 shoulders

Arms --> get rid of it --> get demontooth or the plate one's

Simply comes down to the fact that your fury dps leans more towards BT than MS to arms does.

If you average out over 15% BT damage (and i do for myself, hanging at 17-19% most of the time), i'd recommend the 4t6.
15% BT would roughly be 0,75% damage in total (with the 4t6), which is superior to that 20 extra crit rating provided by demontooth shoulderpads.

Same counts for MS, but since you do less MS damage overall (12-15% i'd say), the 20 crit may outweight the t6 bonus.

Really comes down to playstyle at the arms build, some players might favor a haste "less slam" build and use MS more frequently.

Chadw · 06/21/08, 4:58 AM

For me keeping the 4 piece bonus as arms would really be dependent on the fight.
On a fight like Brutallus keeping a solid slam rotation would be easy and therefore 4piece isn't really needed.
But on a fight like M'uru I RARELY find myself using slam so my MS damage output is higher making 4piece more appealing.

SSLanfear · 06/21/08, 5:30 PM

I was just going over the decision of whether or not to keep 4pc bonus myself. In the end I decided not to based on my numbers.

My bloodthirst makes up for about 12% of my total dmg/dps. Thats .65% of my total dps, taking avg of about 2kdps on most fights means the 4pc bonus from that is about a 13dps gain. Either of the shoulders from sunwell give about a 20+dps boost, so I grabbed the plate haste ones. It really depends on how much your bloodthirst % is.

Either way I still have T6 chest because we haven't killed Muru yet nor will the blacksmith plans ever drop.

Gruntle · 06/23/08, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by rejdakon

Try the spread sheets. T5 and Bloodwarder's are rather close to each other. With epic gems, the difference should be almost zero.

However, I am quite sure that Romulo's will give you more DpS than that green AP-Trinket of yours.

No, Romulos trinket is complete crap for DW fury warriors above 9% hit. Green trinket is better (by a fair margin). This is one of the few questions which cannot really be answered by the standard "use the f*ing spreadsheet" phrase since the green trinket (Core of Ar'kelos or similar ones) are not in the spreadsheet (at least not in landsoul's sheet). If you want to compare them you could input a Bladefist Breath trinket since that trinket is very similar to the the green one in dps output.

Chonar · 06/25/08, 7:23 AM

Hey there, longtime reader first-time poster here. Quick question in regards to FPS during fights.

Because my PC is slowly but surely becoming a crickety old lady, my FPS during the Brutallus fight is never higher than 12. Infact, I'd say it's standard around 10 FPS, dropping down to 7 FPS when things are really bad.

While raiding as fury, trying to keep up a 3BT/2WW rotation, how badly would poor FPS influence my DPS? Currently I'm not reaching the top 5 on Brut, and it's starting to become shameful.

Appreciate any insights.

Aggememnon · 06/25/08, 2:30 PM

I would argue that poor FPS would come into play in anyone's DPS and general ability to function in a high end raid environment, most guilds I was in that raided seriously had system requirements on computers for this very reason.

As to how much of an impact it has on your DPS? It is hard to say, a simple fury rotation isn't as time dependent as, lets say a Hunter shot rotation, but below 10 FPS will really start to affect the way you move or hit buttons when the cooldowns are up, so I bet it is holding you back some.

I'd look into upgrading your machine too, especially if you want to continue raiding end game, its pretty damn cheap to do so, just buy components that are 2-3 generations old and you'd be surprised what you can build or order for under $500.

Muay · 06/27/08, 4:01 PM

Originally Posted by Finkill

i thought the hit raiting was 200ish for fury warriors?

That made no sense, either way, people seem to think we are rogues.

Voxx · 06/28/08, 7:47 PM

Originally Posted by Finkill

i thought the hit raiting was 200ish for fury warriors?

The purpose of this thread, and of the FAQ section are to get people to stop thinking things like this. It'd be great if you would read the first 2 posts a little more thoroughly before posting stuff like this and possibly misleading more people.

evileddie · 06/30/08, 12:56 AM

so im 17/44/0cas fury , i have fury atm, the OH from ZA. I was wondering should i get the OH from badges thats speed is 2.5 or 1.5?

nolena · 06/30/08, 6:49 AM

Originally Posted by evileddie

so im 17/44/0cas fury , i have fury atm, the OH from ZA. I was wondering should i get the OH from badges thats speed is 2.5 or 1.5?

This has been discussed numerous times. Whirlwind gains more from a slow offhand, but rage generation is not as consistent as a fast offhand. A fast offhand gives you more rage (if specced for Unbridled Wrath) and at a more steady rate. So it's about personal preference and what other gear you have.