DPS Warrior Compendium - Page 26

Hidden · 07/13/08, 9:25 PM

Originally Posted by Sepulture

I'm a fan of the site wwsscoreboard.com. The site has a lot of interesting metrics from WWS reporting. A particularly interesting cut that they offer on their site is this one:

WWS Scoreboard

It's a breakdown of the top dps by class for different bosses, in this case Teron Gorefiend. There are also what I would classify as "nifty" bar charts that show you the distribution of class dps across a range.

From what I gather researching on this site, it seems that in the end of the current end game, fury warrior mechanics appear to break. Fury warriors are jumping ahead of everyone else, just like hunters, and this appears to be related to a higher number of heroic strikes when I look at the breakdowns. To jump to my point, does it become reasonable to have a fury warrior be interchangable with a rogue at the end of Sunwell?

It may also be because of itemization; so much of the tier 6.5 and better tier 6 pieces have haste rating on them, making them less useful for arms. We're only 4/6, but we're a pretty well geared 4/6. I'm thinking it might be a possibility to start including a fury warrior in our raids for fights that have a lot of raid damage (and therefore give the fury warrior the ability to HS on almost every swing).

Those are 2 minute kills, probably with a Heroism rotation.
You're looking at >90% Heroism and 1/8 Recklessness on a low armor boss with pretty high raid damage, that's the perfect Warrior fight and you're looking at the same DPS as Rogues and 200 DPS less than Hunters, I wouldn't call that "jumping ahead of everyone else" at all.

nolena · 07/14/08, 8:48 AM

as discussed before, only parts really worth keeping are the shoulders. For the rest I suggest you read the countless posts about it or use the excellent spreadsheet.

◊ Merple · 07/14/08, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Doxic

Are you saying you can start casting slam before your auto-attack has hit? I have never heard about such a thing and I am pretty sure it only looks like you do in a high latency situation.

Pre-casting slam is not difficult to do. There is an inherent danger of clipping your auto-attack if you slam too early, but practise mitigates this to 1/100 swings, and if you're uncomfortable due to recent repositioning or other environmental factors, you can go back to slamming normally.

Personally, I slam at ~ -0.2 and get the illusion of an "instant slam".

Doxic · 07/14/08, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by Merple

Pre-casting slam is not difficult to do. There is an inherent danger of clipping your auto-attack if you slam too early, but practise mitigates this to 1/100 swings, and if you're uncomfortable due to recent repositioning or other environmental factors, you can go back to slamming normally.

Personally, I slam at ~ -0.2 and get the illusion of an "instant slam".

It is impossible with a theoretical close to zero latency, I have no doubt pre-casting like this works in a high latency situation.

Graul · 07/14/08, 12:50 PM

How many people ever sit at 0 latency as an average though? I can imagine the number is closer to 0 than not and that if what I see when I Slam is a result of latency, then shouldn't everyone who does not sit at this theoretical perfect latency or pretty much everyone with higher than 50 ms for that matter, start casting Slam at 0.4 - 0.1 before they see their auto landing?

Hidden · 07/14/08, 3:59 PM

I don't know if it's just me, but looking at my character's animation has always helped me "precasting" (it's not actually precasting, it's more like adjusting to latency) Slams back when I was still doing 2h PvE, didn't use a swing timer however as I could concentrate more on the fight when I wasn't always looking at a bar.

Shha · 07/15/08, 7:11 AM

I guess there is a misunderstanding about the whole precasting. It helps combat your LATENCY. If you have 0 latency you cant precast, but there is also no need to as slamming right at white hit gives you same dps as precasting person had.

All precasting can do is remove ALL dps loss caused by latency - not realistic but thats the HARD cap, if you have 0 latency you are already at that point.

Graul · 07/15/08, 1:27 PM

Still not really understanding this. Do auto attacks never have latency? If they don't, and only your abilities are affected then I guess it makes sense that "casting early" is just removing any extra delay you would have had after an auto if you waited until it hit before Slamming, but if your auto can also have latency issues then that doesn't really make any sense to me.

DarthGreg · 07/15/08, 3:07 PM

Auto-attacking will continue unaffected by latency as long as you stay in melee range and don't turn auto-attack off; when you think about it, that's the way it has to be. Things like entering/exiting melee range, and turning on and off auto-attack, are affected by latency, however - if you turn off auto-attack less than X seconds before the next attack lands, where X is your ping time, then the hit will land regardless. By this same principal, Slam doesn't begin casting on the server until X seconds after you activate Slam, and since auto-attacks are accurately synced between the client and server after the initial hit, a player can safely Slam up to X seconds before your next auto-attack lands and have the message reach the server after the auto-attack.

Above all, it's important to remember that the sequence of events on the server is sovereign, whereas the sequence of events on the client is often a poor representation of such.

dwamid · 07/19/08, 1:49 PM

Question:

I am a T6 warrior with couple of SW loots. Currently i use 2 x Swiftsteel Bludgeons for when i want to execute but i haven't enchanted them yet. Since we are on Brutallus and i need to max my DPS i want to enchant them and was wondering if i should enchant my executing MH with Executioner or i should do double mongoose for MH and OH.

Been looking for a guild but i couldn't fine one. Thx for the help in advance.

Shha · 07/19/08, 8:42 PM

Execute is most definitely affected by ArP.

Ramayana · 07/21/08, 11:50 AM

Yea, the difference between Execute crits with Executioner active compared to when it's not active is actually quite noticeable. Your execute weapons should be enchanter the same way you would enchant your normal weapons, executio9ner MH and mongoose OH.

Deltex · 07/21/08, 6:53 PM

Originally Posted by Doxic

You can easily test that the autoattack is reset at beginning of cast by cancelling the slam early, however I have also experienced that the numbers on the screen do not always follow the swingtimer due to reasons I cannot explain.

Swing timer does NOT reset untill slam lands, as you can easily test by starting to slam and cancelling it. Precasting slam is possible and i always do it in game.

Voxx · 07/23/08, 6:42 PM

Originally Posted by Deltex

Swing timer does NOT reset untill slam lands, as you can easily test by starting to slam and cancelling it. Precasting slam is possible and i always do it in game.

While it may be true that the timer doesn't reset until after the slam lands... I'm 90% positive that you can't swing an auto attack while casting slam, so the point is moot. If you could, then the fact that Windfury procs being clipped by slam would be an issue needing to be addressed.

Glory · 07/24/08, 8:56 AM

Originally Posted by Voxx

While it may be true that the timer doesn't reset until after the slam lands... I'm 90% positive that you can't swing an auto attack while casting slam, so the point is moot. If you could, then the fact that Windfury procs being clipped by slam would be an issue needing to be addressed.

Not 90% its 100% as I am Def Specced for some fun, I have 1.5 Sec Slam Cast, and no Sword Spec nor Windfury. I casted Slam at 3.4 Sec of 3.5 Sec Autoattack (Cats). So in Theory of Deltex I would hit Slam 1.4 after white hit. But there's no white hit at all, to test it I've Chain Slamed from 100 Rage to 0 (7 Slams (5 Rage throug DMG inc)) I havent Hit one Autoattack.

Improved Slam does not change the manner of how Slam works.

So precasting only precasts Latency, precasting is not possible with 0 Latency.

Deltex · 07/24/08, 12:23 PM

Thanks for the clarification Glory, since someone said slam resets the swing timer as soon as you cast it i tested the wrong thing, In fact you can safely cancel slam before the white hit, and it will go off. Although i always precast slam at -0.2-0.3 (at least i try) before the white hit with a latency of 60-70 and the swing usually hits just before slam hits, i suppose that's just me having horrible reactions time

. I cba to test it the right way since you did it for us,

OldTimer · 07/27/08, 3:35 PM

I am seeking advice as to which weapon is better as my MH. I am DW Fury build with 4/6 T6 using [Shard of Contempt]and [Tsunami Talisman] (havent got DST yet but still trying for it) as trinkets and [Angelista's Revenge] and [Stormrage Signet Ring] as rings. Our guild has not seen Dreadboots of Legion ever and have only seen the Teron Gorefiend Cloak once.

Of late I have been using my [Blade of Infamy] as it matches speeds with my [Mounting Vengeance].

I was wondering if anyone had experience of [Wicked Edge of the Planes] vs [Blade of Infamy]. The orc racial for the axe provides some bonus as well it has higher crit. However, I dont know if that would be better than the matched speed and an extra flurry attack.

The 2.4 Spreadsheet shows [Blade of Infamy] slightly better but I dont know if it models the extra flurry due to matched speeds.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cranbery · 07/27/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by OldTimer

I am seeking advice as to which weapon is better as my MH. I am DW Fury build with 4/6 T6 using [Shard of Contempt]and [Tsunami Talisman] (havent got DST yet but still trying for it) as trinkets and [Angelista's Revenge] and [Stormrage Signet Ring] as rings. Our guild has not seen Dreadboots of Legion ever and have only seen the Teron Gorefiend Cloak once.

Of late I have been using my [Blade of Infamy] as it matches speeds with my [Mounting Vengeance].

I was wondering if anyone had experience of [Wicked Edge of the Planes] vs [Blade of Infamy]. The orc racial for the axe provides some bonus as well it has higher crit. However, I dont know if that would be better than the matched speed and an extra flurry attack.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Have you taken [Rising Tide] into consideration? You would gain the expertise. Is the MH badge fist a possibility? Those are both good alternatives, for DW I use blade of infamy for the expertise, but I'm a human. I would say go for a rising tide. Also, plug it into a spreadsheet, see what you get.

OldTimer · 07/27/08, 4:08 PM

Originally Posted by Cranbery

Have you taken [Rising Tide] into consideration? You would gain the expertise. Is the MH badge fist a possibility? Those are both good alternatives, for DW I use blade of infamy for the expertise, but I'm a human. I would say go for a rising tide. Also, plug it into a spreadsheet, see what you get.

I tried Rising Tide in the 2.4 Spreadsheet and it shows less dps than Blade of infamy but i cant see in the 2.4 spreadsheet how it accounts for Racial Expertise. I really like Mounting Vengeance for its dps so trying to work around it if i can.

MH badge fist is 2.5 speed so it wouldnt match the Mounting vengeance. However, all badge loot and other items up to Felmyst are accessible (eventually).

Brutal Gladiator's 2.6 Cleaver would be great but I dont PVP enough to get it.

DarthGreg · 07/27/08, 4:58 PM

Originally Posted by OldTimer

I tried Rising Tide in the 2.4 Spreadsheet and it shows less dps than Blade of infamy but i cant see in the 2.4 spreadsheet how it accounts for Racial Expertise. I really like Mounting Vengeance for its dps so trying to work around it if i can.

MH badge fist is 2.5 speed so it wouldnt match the Mounting vengeance. However, all badge loot and other items up to Felmyst are accessible (eventually).

Brutal Gladiator's 2.6 Cleaver would be great but I dont PVP enough to get it.

This isn't really the right place for it, but in the talents & raid tab of the spreadsheet you can activate racial expertise bonus on either or both hands.

OldTimer · 07/27/08, 5:11 PM

Originally Posted by DarthGreg

This isn't really the right place for it, but in the talents & raid tab of the spreadsheet you can activate racial expertise bonus on either or both hands.

Thank you. I see it now. Doesnt seem to change anything.. Very odd.. Oh well.. I guess i should pvp to an 1800 rating and get the Vengeful Axe at 2.6 speed. That would provide likely the best answer.

Now to find a team on Azgalor.

Gruntle · 07/28/08, 1:12 AM

Originally Posted by OldTimer

I tried Rising Tide in the 2.4 Spreadsheet and it shows less dps than Blade of infamy but i cant see in the 2.4 spreadsheet how it accounts for Racial Expertise. I really like Mounting Vengeance for its dps so trying to work around it if i can.

MH badge fist is 2.5 speed so it wouldnt match the Mounting vengeance. However, all badge loot and other items up to Felmyst are accessible (eventually).

Brutal Gladiator's 2.6 Cleaver would be great but I dont PVP enough to get it.

Matched speeds are not modeled in the spreadsheet (rightfully so) since it's a terribly overrated effect that no one understands. I would never choose a sub-dps (and sub-itmlvl) weapon just because of matched speeds.

Does Blade of infamy come out as a winner in the spreadsheet even if you check the racial box for MH with Wicked edge? In that case, Blade of infamy is the theoretically best option, nothing more or less. All the spreadsheet tests I've done put the badge MH at the top. Blade of infamy is just behind (disregarding pvp weapons). Rising tide is probably better than Blade of infamy for you though because of racial expertise, but I doubt it will be better than the badge MH. But check it in the spreadsheet.

Racial expertise checkbox should change things, maybe you're already expertise capped? In that case, badge MH is the best weapon you can get until glaives, S4, or late SWP.

Shha · 07/28/08, 1:14 AM

Matched speed are working and in fact adding SOME dps. Its not much however, and they add something not covered by spreadsheet - they make the usual problem of slow/slow even worse - the rage generation is as spiky as possible.

Only reason I use sometimes matched speed is for the Slam build - since slam resets offhand swing timer, you want to have them matched so you dont lose more OH hits then needed.

Langie · 07/28/08, 2:17 AM

Originally Posted by Gruntle

Matched speeds are not modeled in the spreadsheet (rightfully so) since it's a terribly overrated effect that no one understands. I would never choose a sub-dps (and sub-itmlvl) weapon just because of matched speeds.

Does Blade of infamy come out as a winner in the spreadsheet even if you check the racial box for MH with Wicked edge? In that case, Blade of infamy is the theoretically best option, nothing more or less. All the spreadsheet tests I've done put the badge MH at the top. Blade of infamy is just behind (disregarding pvp weapons). Rising tide is probably better than Blade of infamy for you though because of racial expertise, but I doubt it will be better than the badge MH. But check it in the spreadsheet.

Racial expertise checkbox should change things, maybe you're already expertise capped? In that case, badge MH is the best weapon you can get until glaives, S4, or late SWP.

Yes, he is expertise capped due to Shard, T6 Belt and 2/2 Weapon Mastery. Therefore its clear that Infamy is superior to Rising Tide. Yes, the Badgefist is a superb weapon which is slightly better then Vengeful without any Racials needed. Get the Fist an be happy.