damagedgoods

I have an item that gives me 50 AP and another item that gives me 1% crit. I was trying to find a way to compare these 2 stats so that my little brain could comprehend it but I am unable. I can't have both of these items because they share the same slot. So i can get 50 AP and lose 1% crit or get 1% crit and lose 50 AP. I have not seen a good comparison chart for the value of either of these so is there anyway hard fast way to compare crit to attack power in there damage value?

 

Bulvine

The best way to help you is to put your gear into one of the warrior dps spread sheets, both are good. Both sheets have Strength Equalized Values or SEV, basically it tells you how many points of each stat(ArP, Crit, Hit, AP, Haste) is compared to Strength.

50 AP is almost always better then 1% crit for a warrior.

 

Brad

I'm not sure if this has been addressed in this forum and sorry if I missed it, but here is my question...

Haste and Hit share the same rating conversions (15.77 haste =1% 15.77 Hit= 1%)

Now the hit soft cap is 9% or (142 hit)

Here comes my question... Can these stats be interchanged? For example if you had 5% to hit could you stack 4% haste for a collective 9% and get the same effect as having 9% hit, or will they not work together like that?

 

sveno

How exactly would more attacks reduce the hit cap? :p

 

orgasmatron

For white damage more or less but haste wont help you with a missed instant attack like mortal strike/slam/whirlwind/bloodthirst, so no it does not. After 9% hit I think of haste as swordspec, 1% is an extra attack out of 100, or 101 attacks instead of 100. This extra attack can be dodged/parried/glanced/hit/crit.

I hate Vem.

 

OldTimer

Thanks for all the feed back for MH usage. I'll move to the unmatched speed Main Hain Badge Weapon for a week and observe the results...

So I'll be [Vanir's Right Fist of Brutality] and [Mounting Vengeance] as MH and OH.

I hope this improves the dps output.

Well revising the above... all our rogues have the Glaive so I just got the [Warglaive of Azzinoth] OH.. out of principle I must use it as my OH.

 

Dheez

Hey guys,
I would like to start off by saying that this forum is awesome. Ok now I have an issue that hopefully I can get some insight on. I am an MS 2H warrior and recently picked up the [The Blade of Harbingers] from badges (150) and see a significant drop in my DPS. My prior weapon was [Bloodmoon]

Stats:
Orc
2144 AP Unbuffed
35.05 Crit (beserker)
161 Hit rating

Weapons:

The Blade of Harbingers
Two-Hand Axe
375 - 563 Damage Speed 3.50
(134.0 damage per second)
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 55 (2.49% @ L70).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 53 (3.36% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 108.


Bloodmoon
Two-Hand Axe
375 - 564 Damage Speed 3.70
(126.9 damage per second)
Durability 120 / 120
Requires Level 70
Requires Master Axesmith
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 56 (2.54% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 112.


I know that slower speed weapons produce more damage, but I thought that since the DPS is higher and the Damage on the Harbinger is listed as equal to the Bloodmoon that overall I would do more DPS. I have been doing less. Now that this is happening should I just go back to my Bloodmoon and if so what would be the next realistic upgrade? The Brutal requires 2k+ rating which I dont see happening. Is there any way that I could reconfigure my str/crit/haste to utilize the Harbringer? maybe raise my crit and drop some str? Maybe a different enchant? I currently use Savagery on both.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

Gruntle

Not sure your post is in the right place Dheez, I could recommend you to go and use the spreadsheet but they will just tell you that Blade of Harbingers is the best option. Slower weapons might hit harder with slams, MS and WW but in this case the damage range is actually the same. Slam hits a little bit harder with Bloodmoon but that's really the only thing and the extra dps on Harbinger should win out (and the stats are better).

How are you doing dps? Are you using a slam cycle or are you skipping slams and only doing MS/WW? In case you are doing the regular slam cycle I guess it's possible that the faster weapon (3.5 but also with quite a lot of haste) creates problems for you with the cooldowns. The minimum speed for a slam cycle to work is 2.5 sec (theoretically, with latency and room for human error it should probably be ~2.7 sec). A 3.5 sec speed weapon with haste and 15% flurry will reach that limit quite fast. With DST you might be better of skipping the slams.

 

• Apate

Skipping Slams is pretty rough without sword spec, in my experience.

I'd say to make sure you're using DocsSwingerClub and make sure that the faster swing speed isn't causing issues with your cycle compared to the Bloodmoon.

As a side note - has anyone experimented with fitting 2 instants between Slam and white hits when current weapon speed is, say, 3.4 (exemplary, not thought out or set in stone) or greater? I tried it out, but rage generation was so spikey with Axes that I got frustrated sooner than I got any worthwhile experimentation.

See you, auntie.
"You don't need a machine to make a rainbow. For rainbows are made of happy thoughts, and dreams, and chocolate unicorns, and gumdrops, and licorice sunsets, and fuzzy gumdrop bears, and sugar-coated chocolate gumdrop land."

Originally Posted by DeeNogger I am coming for you Apate.

 

Crimsonstorm

My guess is that you were used to the old rotation time and were being slightly early on a few slams. Once you get practice with the new weapon speed you should do better with the higher dps weapon.

 

Tomber

I have a question regarding talents... (I apologize if this has been covered; there is an overwhelming amount of information here.)

Why is Poleaxe Specialization excluded from all three of the recommended talent specs at the beginning of this thread?

 

• Aeverius

Two of those three don't go deep enough in Arms to support that in the first place. If your question is "Why Sword Spec over Poleaxe?" as shown in the 33/28 build, the answer is that you put points in the one corresponding to the weapon you are using (ie, don't use Sword Spec if you are wielding [The Blade of Harbingers]), although Sword Spec's extra attacks make it the best option if you have a sword and an axe of similar DPS values. "How much better in terms of DPS should an axe be than a sword to merit Poleaxe Spec over Sword Spec?" is a slightly more interesting question, but the spreadsheet exists to answer those questions. There is also significant discussion of these things in the PvE 2-hand thread (linked in the OP of this thread).

Improved Lay on Hands is really fucking good:

 

Gunar

Hello,

First I want to thank you guys for this great topic. Really great informations.

- edited, wrong forum -

 

Gruntle

Your A and B questions are the same?

Anyway, 33/28 will be better in almost all circumstances. Blood frenzy is almost a must for 25 man raiding. If your raids are very weak on physical dps or if you already have a BF warrior, 21/40 or 20/41 is an option. 2h Fury is stronger for personal dps. Rampage vs Deathwish is a pretty close call, Rampage is probably better in theory, but will be troubling to keep up.

 

Daronsk

Hey Voxx,

Can you add Imp Expose Armor to the compendium under the standard raid armor debuffs. I know the sunder vs imp EA discussion was floating around the warrior threads a while ago before they got flooded out by WOTLK discussions. Its a 475 armor pen increase and a significant dps gain, and more misunderstood then CoR. Also if someone has a link to where a good discussion of Imp EA is at my guild is trying it out and the GL wants some math to prove its worth using.

 

• landsoul

Its definately worth using in a min/max fight with very high dps uptime. Basically it takes a lot more attention form the rogue to keep it up. They lose some of their personal dps 100-200 from not having rupture I think. Also, any warrior tanks may lose some TPS by not having Devastate available.

 

Daronsk

Yeah the rogue is definetly gunna lose some of his personal dps as he has to drop 5pt ruptures from his rotation(He can still get lower pt ruptures in as the expose armor debuff lasts long enough for his cycle to cover this). What I really want to see some math on is how much TPS the warrior tank is losing. Assuming the tank puts up his the initial 5x sunders before imp EA gets put on the target then hes not losing the initial stacking agro. So what he is losing is the 35*5=175 additional damage he would do with sunders up instead of imp EA.

Essentially the math is gunna be comparing that 175 extra damage against the increased damage the tank would get from the 475 extra armor pen he gets. In addition it might be worth looking into a different spec for a war tank with an imp EA rogue. You could trade the 2-3 talent points in sunder and move them to improved heroic strike, as I assume you'd want to shift your rotation away from devistate somewhat.

Landsoul does bring up a good point though, high movement fights might be an area to drop imp EA as threat gen for tanks seems to be lower when they are forced to move around and in addition the melee dps time would be lower so the armor pen would contribute less to the Rdps.

 

Kaan

The TPS loss is very marginal, about 50 TPS. Devastate is usable with Expose Armor. We use Exp Armor on Brut with 2 Warriors, it's absolutely no problem. It also helps the tanks, because they don't have to watch the SA timer and focus on TC/other abilities.

 

DarkFox34

Ok I've searched these forums for 2 weeks now, and have read this post over and over and over again. Would it be possible for someone to redirect me to, or give suggestions on what the ideal gear to go into sunwell with as a 2h Slam spec'd warrior (33/28/0, imp thunder clap, blood frenzy, imp slam, imp demo)? As in an armory or chardev.com link, or some rough stats like "#% crit, # AP, # armor ignore" etc. Any and all help is highly appreciated because my guild has recently just downed Brutallus and on every attempt I was only able to achieve 1400-1600 dps.

My current stats in bt / hyjal gear are as follows (completely Unbuffed):
AP - 1990
Crit - 27.39
Hit - 138 (8.75%) (i have an item to reach 142+ hit but lose other stats)
Expertise - 11 (2.75%)
Weapon - [Cataclysm's Edge]
Armor Ignore - 1805

 

Cranbery

Being hitcapped should wield more of a dps increase than the other stats you drop to achieve 142 hit. If you guys use curse of recklessness, 1805 armor pen is overkill, you only need 1350. Your boot enchant should be cat's swiftness, shouldn't be socketing agility.

A lot of the things you need to improve on are explained in the first post in this thread. As far as stats, there are no ideal numbers. There are no real significant upgrades from BT/Hyjal for you besides bracers, and the gorefiend cloak/supremus neck since you have so much armor pen. Make sure you are performing your dps rotations correctly. Also, are you in a melee stacked group? (Shaman, feral, etc.) That determines a lot of your dps on a fight like brutallus. How long did it take you guys to kill him? The faster you kill him, the more dps you will have. Did you have a heroism for recklessness?

Again, reread the first post by Voxx. It will answer a lot of the questions you have.

 

• landsoul

Get a 5 str 4 hit gem, otherwise 138 hit rating is not really that much of a problem.

Soft cap is 2835 penetration on Brutallus, not 1350. Armor pen is one of the best things to have.

Pick up whatever drops first. At this point you should have enough gear to switch around to match your hit rating at or near the cap. 1400-1600 DPS is fine for a first kill when you are applying thunderclap/demo. Our BF warr is a little more geared and does the same job and scrapes by with 1700.

Keep your surefooted until you get an upgrade with moer hit, then go to Cat's swiftness. Replace your agility/stam gems with crit/stam. Put 10 crit in all yellow sockets and 5str/5crit in red.

 

Cranbery

Thanks for the corrections . Completely forgot about the 5 str 4 hit gem.

 

Crimsonstorm

Your stats are good. My stats are very similar except for 6 more expertise (T6 belt), and about 7% more crit. Youre gearing correctly since you are prioritizing ArP, Expertise, and being near the hit cap. Its not necessary to be exactly on the hit cap. Its good of course, but being 4 points over is much more efficient than being 10 over with a worse item.
The 1800 ArP is excellent, you can even go higher if you get efficient ways to trade other stats for it, but thats a good number.

You can probably do around 1900 or so dps with those stats if everything is perfect, meanign that you have:
Demonslaying Elixir
Str Food
Haste Potions during an early Death wish and later during execute phase.
Enhancement Shaman in group
Might, Kings, and Salv, and Druid buff.
Bloodlust at 20%
Curse of Recklessness on Boss
Faerie Fire on Boss

And most of the following:

Feral Druid in group,
Ret Pally in group,
Survival Hunter in raid,
Rogue with Imp Expose armor in raid. (Assuming Druid/Druid or Warrior/Druid tanks, put up Imp Expose after the first transition from warrior to druid.
Boomkin Druid in raid (Imp faerie fire allowing you to swap gear to trade hit rating for other stats)
Group with several leatherworkers + drums rotation.

Obviously each one of these that you are missing hurts you.

Additionally, you should use Death Wish + haste potion early on, during an executioner proc (but not so early that you pull aggro), and then at 20% you should Recklessness + Death wish + Haste Pot + Bloodlust & Execute, hopefully also during an executioner proc.


Also your slam rotation needs to be very good (slam right after white hit), following:
Slam, MS, Slam, WW, Slam, MS, Slam, X (repeat). Where X is a refreshing of a shout, or use of drums, etc.
If you are required to do thunderclap it will hurt your dps a lot. This is something that a warrior tank should do if you have one, since its threat is about equivalent to devastate (given 3/3 imp). You should be able to do the demo shouts. I find that Booming voice is helpful for giving me more leeway for refreshing demo shout (and bshout).

With all of that I would expect 1900+ dps at your gear level, for each buff that is missing it would be less of course.

 

Zoriac

hmmm if u think he should do 1900 dps with his gear.
then